migration windows to linux

[alacant]

21 minutes ago, JamesF said:

a .iso file is just an image of a filesystem taken at a lower level than you'd usually see

Excellent attempt at 'bootable media', but I'm sure you'd have windows users giving up -again- just after the 'y' of 'filesystem'!

[JamesF]

Yup, I tried to install Mint 19 XFCE on an Atom notebook with an 8GB HD yesterday and it said I'd need 10GB.  If you want space for your own files then obviously you'll want more than that.  20GB seems like a reasonable place to start.  If it's on a dual-boot system then you can actually mount the windows filesystem on Linux and drop image files there should it become necessary.

James

[JamesF]

1 minute ago, alacant said:

Excellent attempt at 'bootable media', but I'm sure you'd have windows users giving up -again- just after the 'y' of 'filesystem'!

Sometimes you just have to accept that you can't please everyone...

James

 

[alacant]

20 minutes ago, spillage said:

20gb is recommended.

And then the added complication of where you are gonna put the files from your ap sessions. A 1TB mechanical disk is cheap and you can get an operating system and loadsa .fits on it. If you can afford a ssd, get a high end box. Ubuntu on a gaming machine with 16GB and /tmp on either a ssd or ramdisk is as close to real time processing as you're ever likely to see.

[Thalestris24]

You can always run Linux from a usb stick: https://www.pendrivelinux.com/ (I guess you'd need a computer that will allow booting from usb). I've never tried it and not sure if it has any limitations (other than you'd expect from a usb stick) but I might have a go one day. I'm terrible with projects - I frequently pick them up one day then lose interest after a while - tut! I set up a Linux system on an RPI3 at the beginning of the year. Got it going with PHD but somehow drifted away from it. The aim was to get a low electrical power portable standalone system based on the eq3 pro that I'd bought. But I've never got the eq3 out of the flat. Maybe I'll revisit it one day.

Louise

Edit: apologies to Spillage who already posted a different link re usb Linux

Edited August 17, 2018 by Thalestris24

[alacant]

1 minute ago, Thalestris24 said:

Linux from a usb stick

But it's a miserably slow and need-to-be-an-expert-for-it-to-work - @Thalestris24 as I know you are:) - experience.  RPI; is it worth the hassle? Why not a proper computer that you'd use for windows day to day stuff? Why the instance of making a hard task even harder by having to fight minimalist hardware?

[Thalestris24]

38 minutes ago, alacant said:

But it's a miserably slow and need-to-be-an-expert-for-it-to-work - @Thalestris24 as I know you are:) - experience.  RPI; is it worth the hassle? Why not a proper computer that you'd use for windows day to day stuff? Why the instance of making a hard task even harder by having to fight minimalist hardware?

It worked ok  The idea was for it to be easily portable for little, weak me! I was going to have a 12v battery-powered dslr, the RPI3 and the mount, also battery powered. I'm sure it would have been fine. I even bought a bike trailer to put it all in. I was going to put everything in the trailer and hopefully be able to take the kit downstairs. But I found the trailer on it's own was too heavy for me to get up and down the stairs - so end of another bright idea  As I say, I might revisit it if the mood takes me.

Louise

[spillage]

33 minutes ago, alacant said:

1 hour ago, spillage said:

 

And then the added complication of where you are gonna put the files from your ap sessions

The same place you would with windows. With linux they state install should be 9gb vs windows who state 20gb.

The thing to take into account is that whilst linux has advantages it also has some disadvantages compared to win o/s. You have to decide if its worth it but also give it a fair go. It took me a few years to settle with linux as everytime I tried it I found myself giving up. I have overcome these issue mainly due to the software developing more each time I tried.

 

[wimvb]

51 minutes ago, alacant said:

RPI; is it worth the hassle? Why not a proper computer that you'd use for windows day to day stuff? Why the instance of making a hard task even harder by having to fight minimalist hardware?

I think it is. I'd rather lose a € 35 raspberry pi due to dew or frost, than my laptop. The raspberry pi can handle cold, but how does a laptop lcd screen handle -20 C?

The raspberry pi hardware is quite adequate for controlling the scope and camera, including guiding. The bottleneck is usually the network speed (raspberry pi shares usb and ethernet on the same chip).

[alacant]

2 minutes ago, spillage said:

The same place you would with windows

...but you're only gonna have space for a few frames. Remember that you're gonna need indi, ekos and phd2 on top of the install leaving you room for a few frames before you're out of storage. In my experiences with the current Ubuntu install and capturing with a dslr, an ex-ekos processing session via siril, StarTools and gimp is gonna go well over 10Gb...

[Alien 13]

I do have Linux Mint on a stick and part of a dual boot with Win 7 and its fine for those general office or browsing tasks, the one thing that does annoy is its constant requirement for entering a password for most menus..

Alan

[alacant]

3 minutes ago, wimvb said:

laptop lcd screen handle -20 C?

Phew, I doubt it but I bet your images would be super noise free!

[Thalestris24]

5 minutes ago, alacant said:

...but you're only gonna have space for a few frames. Remember that you're gonna need indi, ekos and phd2 on top of the install leaving you room for a few frames before you're out of storage. In my experiences with the current Ubuntu install and capturing with a dslr, an ex-ekos processing session via siril, StarTools and gimp is gonna go well over 10Gb...

I seem to recall there was tons of room on my RPi3 with just a 16Gb sd card. You can always have a bigger card (32 or 64gb) though you only need enough room for 1 sesh anyway cos you can just transfer images to your main pc/laptop

Louise

[spillage]

Most hard drives these days are at least 160gb. I am also sure that the mint setup comes with gimp installed. On the subject of install space and windows vs linux then linux will win hands down as it uses much less space than windows. 

In the UK I have installed a standard pc in the garden sat inside a homemade wooden box. It sits just off the ground and has been running for over 6is months without issues.

I plan on using an old laptop to install linux and give ekos/indi a go and see if I like it, then maybe change my entire astro system over to linux.

Edited August 17, 2018 by spillage

[stash_old]

1 hour ago, alacant said:

But it's a miserably slow and need-to-be-an-expert-for-it-to-work

Sorry thats not correct - I use Sandisk Ultra and it out perform the mechanical 160gb Samsung sata 3 disc - it flies.  Anyway its a case of putting "fast" files in the appropriate place and "slow/infrequently " files on the slowest part of the system. After all once booted a lot of boot files are not used again.

Yes a pain but if I wanted a supercomputer I would buy a Cray (google it people).

Mount driving is very light on CPU/Disk usage and are Focuser's.

OK image files are heavy but they come down relatively slow routes compared to SSD fast Sata channels (yes it depends on architecture).

Post processing ,IMHO, is not what most want from the "MOUNT COMPUTER" (well I don't) I want less wires !!!!!!!! - there are plenty of real time file copying apps on Linux (even Windows) that will transfer in background to the "Supercomputer". But if that is what you want then it will cost you and a RPI3/Rock64 are no comparison o an I7,16gB ram,2 x 512ssd all in a small factor - £500 approx - that's £500 quid that could go bang. I except time lags myself - but thats me and my opinion .

Update on my Grab and Go Indi style - after a great start it went down hill all because the SkywatcherALTAZ indi driver is very poor at ,what IMHO is something simple, Mount Parking or the lack of - No matter what this driver insists on starting from the S not N and PARK doesn't work.

So I had to stick in the old handset(using v3.94) and use the Synscan Indi driver - it all went great and even Platesolving (ok via Internet - asking RPI3 to do this offline is a step too far) sync,aligment etc went great. Note the Synscan Handset doesn't do anything (or I should say you dont) except I use it to PARK as even the Synscan Indi driver has problems "Parking" - Bug I believe.

After the changed to the Synscan Indi driver / Handset I had 1.5-2hrs of carefree running  using RPI3 wireless connected,Synscan Handset,Canon DSLR with std lens plus a car battery. All controlled remotely using Realvnc server on the PI and Vncviewer on an Old Vista laptop. Its getting there and this time next year I hope to have my Obsys converted to Indi of all the small glitches are ironed out.  Clear Skies

[stash_old]

34 minutes ago, Alien 13 said:

constant requirement for entering a password for most menus

That's just security - just like Windows ACL. It too can be switched off.   But the software guys all have a " bee in their bonnets" because users moan about being secure - I feel sorry for them they are between "a rock and a hard place" 

[stash_old]

38 minutes ago, wimvb said:

The bottleneck is usually the network speed (raspberry pi shares usb and ethernet on the same chip).

RPI3 B+ doesn't they changed it - if what I read is true. As for Camera speeds what is your camera and what sort of speed do you achieve with your RPI3 ??

[GuLinux]

1 hour ago, Thalestris24 said:

It worked ok  The idea was for it to be easily portable for little, weak me! I was going to have a 12v battery-powered dslr, the RPI3 and the mount, also battery powered. I'm sure it would have been fine. I even bought a bike trailer to put it all in. I was going to put everything in the trailer and hopefully be able to take the kit downstairs. But I found the trailer on it's own was too heavy for me to get up and down the stairs - so end of another bright idea  As I say, I might revisit it if the mood takes me.

Louise

That's more or less what I do, only I don't use a 12V battery, but a 5V power bank for smartphones.

I bough the biggest I could find (20A), still weights less than half a kilogram, and can power a Rpi3 + an ASI camera for a couple of nights! Don't know about a DSLR as well, but I bet that *at most* it will go down to 1 night only.

And as always, a reminder of my own sequencing project, particularly designed against small lightweight setups (like a star adventurer + a raspberry pi): 

 

It's quite easy to install now, since there's already a Raspberry Pi image ready to download

[GuLinux]

As for limitations, storage was never an issue for me. I use 64GB micro sd cards, and I usually end up filling 10/20 GB only. And note that I usually go with 90 or 60 (sometimes even less) seconds of exposure, which means loads and loads of files for a single session.

You can always buy an extra SD card (128, 256, whatever you want) and add it with a sd/usb adapter, or even a full feature hard drive if you like.

 

The only big limitation I found at the moment with the raspberry pi is USB(2) download speed. Not an issue with DSLR I guess, but quite important with a CMOS camera, as it really slows sequences a lot, and it usually generates some amp glow.

I just bought a Rock64 board instead (USB3), will see how it goes when it'll arrive.

[Dr_Ju_ju]

By the time yours comes, I may have a workable install\setup for you & others...  

I've been playing with the Latest Ubuntu(18.01)\lxde, which have been less than successful, in that the maintainer of the Community distro (Ayufan), hasn't released a full workable version, with all the back requirements to install & run Mate, that I've now given up trying to shoehorn it onto the device, & gone back to 16.04, which at least is allowing me to install & update software... 

The Pine peeps look like they have given up maintaining any releases, as they have done nowt for 2 years...

[wimvb]

2 hours ago, stash_old said:

As for Camera speeds what is your camera and what sort of speed do you achieve with your RPI3 ??

ZWO ASI174MM-Cool, 2.3 Mpixels, filesize 4.6 MB. I only do dso imaging, so I've never timed frame rate. But when I shoot flats at less than 1 s exposure time, it's quick fire. Download time to my Rock sbc is definitely less than half a second, I'd guess.

http://indilib.org/forum/embedded-indi/2762-indi-on-the-rocks-a-rock64-to-be-exact.html?start=48#23165

During an imaging session I save frames locally to the server (Pi or Rock), including 25 flat frames/filter. I have no problem storing several sessions on the card (32 GB).

I connect to the INDI server from kstars on windows. For PHD, I use windows remote desktop to open a desktop session. The rest is done "headless".

Anyone wanting to use INDI but not the tinkering involved, either the new ASIAIR from ZWO or the StellarMate seem to be good plug-and-play alternatives.

[Thalestris24]

1 minute ago, Dr_Ju_ju said:

By the time yours comes, I may have a workable install\setup for you & others...  

I've been playing with the Latest Ubuntu(18.01)\lxde, which have been less than successful, in that the maintainer of the Community distro (Ayufan), hasn't released a full workable version, with all the back requirements to install & run Mate, that I've now given up trying to shoehorn it onto the device, & gone back to 16.04, which at least is allowing me to install & update software... 

The Pine peeps look like they have given up maintaining any releases, as they have done nowt for 2 years...

That's one of my main dislikes of Linux - too many different versions, flavours and 'dialects', as it were! Though the basic os is pretty reliable. Otoh I get fed up with the Win 10 updates and the tendency for things to not properly work after an update. Can't win...

Louise

[wimvb]

5 minutes ago, Dr_Ju_ju said:

By the time yours comes, I may have a workable install\setup for you & others...  

I've been playing with the Latest Ubuntu(18.01)\lxde, which have been less than successful, in that the maintainer of the Community distro (Ayufan), hasn't released a full workable version, with all the back requirements to install & run Mate, that I've now given up trying to shoehorn it onto the device, & gone back to 16.04, which at least is allowing me to install & update software... 

The Pine peeps look like they have given up maintaining any releases, as they have done nowt for 2 years...

Yes, support of these boards is their weak point. The (only?) stable platform seems Raspberry Pi. I hope that usb3 is not too far off.

I have 16.04 installed and working. Both my eq3-pro and az eq6 function. Also Moonlite compatible focuser, zwo filter wheel, and two zwo cameras. The only problems I have encountered are losing wifi on my laptop, or the Rocks being to far away and wifi getting slow (dlink dongle).

[wimvb]

6 minutes ago, Thalestris24 said:

That's one of my main dislikes of Linux - too many different versions, flavours and 'dialects', as it were!

Windows also has different flavours, just only one at a time. It seems that every time they release a new version, you have to re-learn things. Windows 3, CE, ME, NT, 95, Vista, XP, 7, 8, 10, etc, etc. What happened to 9, btw?

In linux, at least you choose one and stick with it.

[Dr_Ju_ju]

One of the reasons for me going the Rock64 route, is that I can run everything off the one board, & not worry too much if I lose connectivity to it (I prefer wired over Wifi anyway), and just xRDP to connect to a Rock64 desktop...

I've also come across another company using the same Rockchip processors, Firefly (https://shop.t-firefly.com/goods.php?id=65) yep, they are Chinese, but they seem to make everything, including the Pi's....