Impatience or Poor Service?

[GazOC]

I'll repeat for the last time (I promise!!) but this is a 8" Newt that cost £700, was the focuser "usable" out of the box? Why was there dust in the package? All these things could have been sorted very easily at OOs end before dispatch. Tell me that that wouldn't have been time/ money well spent from their point of view?

Please don't think I'm anti Orion Optics but Brymptons case isn't isolated and this idea that the fact that they make good mirrors absolves OO from completing the mechanical side of the scope is way off the mark.

[Sam]

Well said Gaz. Every part of a telescope is important, there's no point in having only one part that is good and the rest of it being sub standard.

[brympton]

I don't think Orion Optics would want to agree with the fantastic mirrors but everything else is budget comments that are being suggested :shock:

Take a good look at their website and advertising. If I wanted budget mechanicals I would have gone for the Europa 200 with R & P focusser and basic mirror cell for £299.

I did not do this because I knew firstly that I would have to factor in extra money for a moonlite and the 9 point cell was an optional extra. The optics would be 1/6 wave.

So I then looked at the Europa Deluxe at £449. First thing I notice is that a precision crayford is included which I thought was great because I would not need to upgrade this, also the optics are now 1/8 wave but the 9 point cell is still an optional extra.

So now we move onto the SPX200 at £595, it has practically everything as standard including the 1/10 wave mirror. I include the optional 10:1 reduction drive for the focuser and a cooling fan bringing the total to £654 (CNC tube rings was not an available option (are these shown anywhere on their website?) otherwise I would have probably ordered these too. Similarly (and in hindsight) I would have factored in extra money for a decent dovetail.

Is the SPX range being marketed as a budget OTA with fantastic mirrors - I think not.

If I believed that how my OTA had been received was normal I would not be offering OO a second chance although the comments in support of OO are leading me to believe it is

Surely no-one could argue that an OTA with 1/10 wave optics should arrive dusty and dirty?

The component quality of the focusser and mirror cell have the potential to be top notch as long as they are finished properly (again as shown on OO's website). I'm not talking about missing logo's here I'm talking about fit, finish and operation.

Anyway, the email has been sent and the OTA returned. OO can go one of two ways now either refund in full or provide a complete OTA to an acceptable standard.

If they choose the former then you may see a review of the GSO 8" f/4 which is currently the nearest alternative I can find.

If they choose the later (and it is acceptable) then nothing would make me happier than to photograph and report on this.

Either way I intened to continue posting as long as this issue remains outstanding and people want to read it

[DaveGibbons]

I've been reading this thread and thinking about Orion Optics my own dealings with them (I've had newts and an omc140 from them in the past), The newtonian optics were stunning better than any of my scopes before or since and I've had loads. I think alot of frustration us astronomers feel is the fact that here's a British company that should be a world beater and probably is with their mirror sets, but for whatever reason misses the boat on what used to be something we excelled at innovative high quality engineering. It's a family run business that perhaps makes a very good living doing what they do and don't wish to change what works financially for them .

Customer service always seems to be a bit hit and miss but it looks like in this case you will get a good result.

I remember complaining about the rough dovetail on my gx200 newt many years ago and was told "It does the job and you will put up with it for the views" , and do you know what he was right! However, I think OO need to realise a tipping point may reached very soon when us lucky spoiled astronomers get so used to our Chinese engineered masterpieces with consistent high quality optics that they become no more than a quaint and expensive backwater of scope makers.

I wish they could really take the world on I really do!

cheers

Dave

[brympton]

Another email arrives...

With your email stating you would like a refund and get it collected right

away, I thought you would not be interested in me offering you to make the

product to your liking.

Please let me know which parts where not to your satisfaction.

Our CNC milling machines are all geared up to cut the metal with our

designer 3D milling tracks on the OC1 with new imprinted.

Orion Optics

Made in UK

OO logo underneath.

The 9 point cell also ready to be machined with 3D milling tracks in the

same shape as the cell getting smaller as they approach the centre, In other

words following the shape of the cell inwards. also with writing in three

positions.similar to the cell picture on this link.

http://www.orionoptics.co.uk/AG/agrange.html

Orion Optics

Made in UK

OO logo underneath

If you have any preferences please let me know and I will see if we can

implement them for you.

A new CNC machined dovetail fitting to fit Vixen mounts. If you need the

plate to fit something else; again please let me know the dimensions you

require it to be made.

Any other personal features you have in mind please let me know.

Regards

And a reply is sent...

I have attached a document detailing all the items that I am unhappy with.

I'm sure it goes without saying that it needs to be delivered in a clean

condition. The essential items are the focuser, 9 point cell and the

dovetail/tube rings.

Regards

We live in hope

[nitram100]

Well, it's clear that you're dealing with nice people at OO.

[ngc2403]

This seems to have turned a corner, when it made it to page three.

i could agree with almost everything said on this page.

the CNC tube rings am sure if you ask they could make a set. i believe they are the one they use for the new AG telescopes.

The flattened part of the tube were the seem is, looks just like mine and although it looks bad it doesn't affect the telescope in anyway that i have found so far. the tube rings are fine and i have a guide plate across the top to stiffen up the whole setup.

As we now know they are willing to custom make things for customers and i think that it was very unfair to rant and rave about them without their opnion.

In some ways this is a case for buying from the UK,

because they have offered to do very thing they can to make the telescope that the customer wants, and that is what you will get hopefully. plus if you ask them to change something or that something isn't right then they are happy to do so.

agreed the focusser is not a world beater but i find mine to work fine, the tube rings well you can get the ones that are there or the CNC ones, the only thing you have to work with is the tube.

I think it is up to us to make sure that OO become what we want them to be

.... a British company that should be a world beater ...

ally

[narrowbandpaul]

quite agree, a replacement of the stock focusser clearly indicates the telescope wasnt the complete package.

I f you want the complete package, OO are offering Astrographs, which should be excellent...fully flat field <3um spot size carbon fibre tube, 3" focusser. This is a complete package, and it will cost >£6000. Which is a fair price for a complete setup.

£700 pounds for a complete 8" package isnt realistic, the bulk of the money goes on the optics, the rest on the tube. I was never expecting my 10" to be fantastic, only the mirror.

Most of the complaining is coming from those who dont own an OO telescope, and they base there entire views on one report. Since when does one report accurate reflect the average of a sample of reports.

So brympton are u asking for a new scope or your money back.

Clearly the change OO have made to several of the items shows they are willing to change. so lets not put a family out of business. Lets give them a chance to redeem themselves

Ps I am sure they will make you CNC rings for your scope

Paul

[Jeff RV]

I always thought "Page 3" meant something different :laughing3: dribble!!

Jeff.

[jakey]

quite agree, a replacement of the stock focusser clearly indicates the telescope wasnt the complete package.

I f you want the complete package, OO are offering Astrographs, which should be excellent...fully flat field <3um spot size carbon fibre tube, 3" focusser. This is a complete package, and it will cost >£6000. Which is a fair price for a complete setup.

I do not consider £6000 as a fair price for what can be an unreliable quaility. The spx is advertised as such and they were wrong.

£700 pounds for a complete 8" package isnt realistic, the bulk of the money goes on the optics, the rest on the tube. I was never expecting my 10" to be fantastic, only the mirror.

The Chinese makers may diasagree with the above

Most of the complaining is coming from those who dont own an OO telescope, and they base there entire views on one report. Since when does one report accurate reflect the average of a sample of reports.

I own OO and I complained as have many other OO users

So brympton are u asking for a new scope or your money back.

He should not be in a position when he asks for either, not when it was sold as a high quality item

Clearly the change OO have made to several of the items shows they are willing to change. so lets not put a family out of business. Lets give them a chance to redeem themselves

Time will tell

Ps I am sure they will make you CNC rings for your scope

For what cost, at the price charged and the hype re the quality of the scope this sholud be standard.

Paul

[narrowbandpaul]

i said 'most' not all,

the chinese dont offer the same standard of mirror, nor do they come with a zygo report. The chinese can make good mirrors, but they dont check the quality, and certainly not with a zygo.

[Astro_Baby]

Actually the OO supporters here are doing yeoman work of putting me off ever owning one - far more so than the initial report.

[brympton]

Actually the OO supporters here are doing yeoman work of putting me off ever owning one - far more so than the initial report.

:laughing3: Exactly, it's not helping. Let's hope we can get things back on track soon

[thing]

I've tried to stay out of this but £700 for a Newt means that you get good everything, not just the mirrors. The reason that Britain has become a manufacturing backwater is because people put up with this sort of Rubbish. It's not good enough. It should be good straight out of the box, and yes, a sand cast dovetail probably isn't the worst of your problems, but for that price it should be a milled precision unit, even though it doesn't have to be. You could buy an Aston Martin for 130K, what are you buying, the engine and suspension? Or do you want body panels that are the finest fit, the finest hide interior etc. Why? It's not going to make it any faster.

[John]

i said 'most' not all,

the chinese dont offer the same standard of mirror, nor do they come with a zygo report. The chinese can make good mirrors, but they dont check the quality, and certainly not with a zygo.

What is the point of these excellent OO optics being mounted in a poorly made OTA ?. Surely the engineering quality of the other componants, ie: secondary mount, focusser, primary mirror cell, tube etc also has to be good to do justice to the optics ?.

I'm not an optical expert but I would have thought that the performance of an excellent mirror set would be compromised if they are fitted in a poorly made optical tube - how could you be sure of achieving and maintaining good collimation ?.

John

[Jeff RV]

Is this still going on?

Jeff.

[Aaron]

I'm glad I read this thread, as I was seriously considering buying OO 8" reflector, looks like I'll be going for a GSO Astrograph now 8) .

[russ]

There's two things that spring to mind when i think of the OO scopes i've owned.

Firstly, they been some of the best performing scopes i've ever owned, in particular the two 150's.

Secondly, they have been some of the worst engineered things i've ever owned. The 300f4 was without doubt the worst engineered scope i've ever owned or ever used. I wouldn't even class it as useable in its out of the box state. Mirror cell wouldn't hold collimation, too much flex in the tube rings and tube for a scope that size, the 2 vane 'girder' spider was a joke but not as hopeless as the finder. And on the first night i cut my finger on a burr on the dovetail. You'll find the review of that scope on this site. I sold it and recieved a lot of PM's saying how can you sell a faulty scope, after all you just said in the review. Because it wasn't faulty...it was exactly as it left the OO factory. I couldn't put up with it and couldn't afford to put right what needed putting right (everything bar the mirrors).

Worth pointing out that the 150's and 200's, with their light weight mirrors and OTA, performed fine out of the box. Just the 250 and 300 that didn't. OO put a lot into the mirrors and try to cut corners as much as possible on everything else. As i said earlier in this thread, they would be better served sourcing Chinese parts for the OTA and using their own optics. That would be a killer system that would get few if any complaints. And i can't see why they could make that for the same money. And still engineer the parts for the top end systems.

btw i think it must be getting close to the time to lock this thread and let Brympton get on and sort things.

Russ

[brympton]

Is this still going on?

Yes Jeff and it seems that OO are taking things pretty seriously, several more emails have been exchanged today (all positive) regarding fit and finish. I can only assume that OO want to put things right - I will let you all know if this is the case.

Russ, I think there is some genuine interest here in seeing the outcome

[Jeff RV]

Is this still going on?

Yes Jeff and it seems that OO are taking things pretty seriously, several more emails have been exchanged today (all positive) regarding fit and finish. I can only assume that OO want to put things right - I will let you all know if this is the case.

Russ, I think there is some genuine interest here in seeing the outcome

I hope it all gets sorted amicably.

Jeff.

[russ]

I hope so too. I just want Brympton to get the scope he was expecting. The OO wasn't it. And i can't see them changing the mirror cell, tube, rings, dovetail and focuser. So it has to be a refund.

Russ

[SteelRat]

Looks like OO and Brymton are sorting things out.

I do hope when the matter is resolved Brymton will let us know how things went.

[brympton]

Thank's for the support guys...

I hope so too. I just want Brympton to get the scope he was expecting. The OO wasn't it. And i can't see them changing the mirror cell, tube, rings, dovetail and focuser. So it has to be a refund.

Russ

Ahem...

Hi Mark,

Just a quicky mail,

So do you not want the designer what we call 3D milled tracks on the OC1 or

9 Point cell. If you move the parts around and get reflections from them

they look quite nice looking.

I personally prefer it as it gives it a move expensive feel and look, but

you are the one that counts as its going to be your telescope. Please let me

know.

Regards

[barkis]

Looks like you are getting a result mate, and this thread can perhaps relax a bit. OO must be given credit for their response, and hopefully in future, they will pay a bit more attention to the complete article. If they can produce Rolls Royce Optics, the hardware should be a piece of cake. It seems they have the machinery to do it, and perhaps the staff too.

Ron.

[mahone1978]

This is an email I sent to Orion Optics last year following my similar experience to Byrmton. I dont care how good the mirrors are I will never use them again. They made me feel I should think myself lucky

they were taking my hard earned money!

"I am writing this to let you know i am not happy with my experience of dealing with orion optics.

The reasons are as follows:

I ordered a Europa 250mm deluxe ota but recieved the dobsonian ota instead. This tube may be thicker but it is not what i ordered.

When i placed my order i was offered the optical upgrade for £50. I asked if it was ok to pay for that nearer the time of delivery which i was told was fine. I contacted you and was told you would still give me the said upgrade for £50. I have been charged £75.

According to your Advert the 250mm dobsonian tube ways 3kgs more than the 250mm Europa tube. I purchased a mount with counter weights to suit the Europa tube not the Dob so now i can`t balance the Ota on the mount. I did inform you of this and you kindly offered to send me an extra counter weight.... Little did I know you would charge me £50. £50 to rectify a problem you caused!

I am not sure why you have kept my card details since i originally placed my order on the 12th October. Can you please destroy my card details as it is actually my partners account.

Your Mirrors are great its just a shame the rest is a let down. Needless to say i will have to look elsewhere for future upgrades and will Not be recommending Orion Optics to members of my society or online forum.

Regards

John"

Useless!!!