Impatience or Poor Service?

[barkis]

I don't give a damn about their reputation from an optical viewpoint, however good that may be.

There is no excuse for turning out poor quality like that.

If they are content to put out work as shoddy as that in the engineered parts., how long before they let the optical work fall below their usual quality..

Ron.

[jakey]

I have bought a few OO proucts, an 8 inch omc 200, a 14 inch dob and a 10 inch spx 250 f6.3.

The optics have been superb, as they should be for what I paid. However the parts supplied with the optics have not been that good. The omc had hair in the paintwork of the tube,it was covered in dirt and almost looked second hand. The 14 inch dob had screws missing. The spx had no obvious issues other than a streak effect on the primary mirror, which had no obvious effect. But the collimation was shocking. If I had thrown it off a moutain it would have been better.

I purchased a crayford made by OO for my 14 inch dob that never seemed to turn up. Whilst waiting for it I asked if it would be easy to retrofit. I spoke to OO and I was assured that It would fit in the present slot. I ended up going to Beaconhill and getting my ota redrilled to fit.

I am sure that OO mean well but I think that they are now taking us for granted. Yes their mirrors are good but the Chinese are catching up.It will not be long before I ditch OO and buy skywatcher.

Less hassle and in the long run a better scope.

I can take a skywatcher out of the box and use it. I take a OO out of the box and look for missing parts.

I very nearly ordered an omc 250, as a result of this thread I have changed my mind.

I want to buy British and I want to buy quality, so OO only scores one out of two.

[ngc2403]

hey

i was in a rush so never read the last post guys lol,

..........but was they just work and i agree that you didn't get what you wanted but it was not what you want to start with am afriad

ally

que?

but they just work, ( optically they are good and that is what counts in the long run,) there is no way to improve optics easily! however tube ring's, etc can be upgraded.

*and the telescope that you thought you were getting, was not what you wanted.

in saying that, they should never of delivered the telescope in that condition.

the ZIGO was bought from an independent company and it cost them an arm and a leg. However seen as They are a leading supplier of optics to other companies BTW as a little inside info, their optics are as good as they get. it could be said that they have the potential to be the best in Europe and their suppliers of carbon fibre, aluminium tubes etc are all local because that is how they like to get their parts?

Customer service is very poor though! agreed

ally

[Astro_Baby]

Never having owned one though always wanting one ( not now I fear ) I would have to say yes the optics are important but they cant be the only consideration on a scope of that price.

If you bought a camera which had fantastic optics but was faulty in all other respects no photographer would say 'ahh yes but the optics are superb' they'd rightly say it was a piece of junk and not use it.

I dont think the 'best optics' holds much water myself. If I lashed out nearly £700 on a scope I dont expect to have to replace everything except the glass. Thats not a telescope - thats a pair of mirrors supplied in a metal packing tube as a home build project.

I have to say having seen a Europa De-Luxe of late and these pictures I'd not be inclined to part with may cash on an Orion scope, what makes me even more worried is OO owners saying 'well thats how it is with OO products but just look at the mirror quality' which seems to suggest that this scope far from being a single lemon is in fact par for the course - now thats really alarming to me because when I splash my cash I want stuff to work out the box more or less and especially when the manufacturer is saying on adverts that their quality is amazing.

I really cant see the argument that 'well the optics are good' holding any weight when everything else is so shabby. After all Orion dont advertise as 'great mirrors to build your own telescope with' they advertise with ( and I qoute here ) "If you want the very best equipment for your money you can be completely confident your purchase from us will give you total satisfaction" thats from an Orion advert inn Sky at Night, their website says of the SPX "we have designed a range of telescopes which are excellent in optical AND MECHANICAL performance" ( my capitals there ).

The Europa page says that the Europa is the most popular 150mm telescope in the UK because of its unquestionable optical and mechnaical performance. That coupled with a glowing Sky at Night review almost made me buy one. FRankly I doubt they sell more of them than Sky-Watcher sell of theirs myself.

Complete sympathy with Brympton but also my thanks for posting this because its a real warning to newbies like me who may be considering Orion - I almost bought one myself a few months back and am now so glad I didn't.

[russ]

In a nutshell OO need to outsource the tube, rings, dovetail, mirror cells etc.

In fact, considering the cost of a Skywatcher 150P or 150PL ota, they would be better off buying the tube ready done, junk the Skywatcher mirror, respray the tube, insert their own mirror set and then still knock it out for profit without any of the grief or bad rep they currently get.

Russ

[spaceman spiff]

Hi

A total disgrace.

What will also hurt them most is a link to this topic, and let them read for themselves.

As the saying goes. "Bad news can travel the world whilst Good News is still tying it's shoe laces"

It looks to me like somebody else's return goods

Happens a lot more than people can imagine

[John]

I think what would be really good would be if OO had a chance to look at this feedback, consider it thoughtfully, and respond constructively (in a sense it's free market research as well).

Apart from the universal condemnation of the service and quality of product that has been delivered here, the other theme that runs strongly through this thread is that we would all like to see a successful and well regarded UK based scope manufacturer - OO still have the potential to fill that niche - but they do need to acknowledge that there are some real service and quality issues that matter to customers and that need to be dealt with and then to be open about how they are going to address them.

From what I've seen OO seem to adopt a "head in the sand" attitude to criticisism - most commercial companies who adopt that attitude will eventually fail I think regardless of how good one aspect of their products are - people have come to expect the whole package these days, and rightfully so.

John

[GazOC]

their suppliers of carbon fibre, aluminium tubes etc are all local because that is how they like to get their parts?

That doesn't help the customer, if thats the case then they need to look at it as a matter of urgency IMHO. When you pay £700 for an 8" Newt NO corners should be cut, if cost is an issue for outsourcing the mechanical parts then charge £750 for the scope. Once people have made the decision to pay the extra £400 for a premium Newt paying an extra 50 quid to get one that isn't a project wouldn't be an issue to them IMHO.

I was looking at getting a 8" Mak next year and the OMC200 was on my list, but based on this (and other) horror stories I think the Russians will be getting my money.

[RichieJarvis]

Hi Brympton,

I think you've done exactly the right thing returning it. Unfortunately, its not the only example I've heard of with sub-standard equipment being sent out. I am not going to comment on who or what, as it wasn't mine, and I didn't experience it directly.

If I am spending money on a product, then it had better be right. I will not accept sub-standard equipment - especially considering the markup on these items! Added to which, Astronomy suppliers who don't deliver should be shunned by all of us - life is too short to have to spend lots of money on a hobby, which we do for fun, to have to put up with this.

Maybe a hall of shame thread would be appropriate, where anyone with a bad experience can state what happened, and how the supplier concerned dealt with it?

Cheers,

Richie

P.S. Still very happy with the EQ6 Pro

[part timer]

I know I used to want an OO scope until astrofest 2004 when I looked at them 'in the flesh'. The sales guy, I believe his name was Barry almost spat out his dummy when I asked if the mirror cell would cause thermal problems as it was closed. I also thought that the price seemed rather high.

Later i did use a 10 inch DX scope (borrowed whilst a Friend was away)and found that in the time I used it I never had chance to see if it was any good because the mirror NEVER got fully cool. The focuser and finder were awful and the vixen mount was too overloaded for its quality to show through.

Orion optics selling point seemed to be ' we make great mirrors and we are not Chinese'. well unfortunately a good mirror is not good enough. The mirror needs a well designed and well made telescope. Orion optics can not seem to acheave this and really should find a better manufacturer for there mechanics.

[PhillyDee]

I think someone needs to refer them to this thread. Its not good when its on one of the biggest astronomy forums around (If not THE biggest). A response from OO might be appropriate.

[ngc2403]

ok so list the points here,

i think we all agree they need better tubes, focusser, rings etc...

however as any OO customer will tell you, the telescope never arrives on time, i would of had no problem waiting for a scope to come in 4 months but when you get told it will be 6 weeks well its very annoying.

OO sourcing a lot of equipment locally is good for their area and helps please the locals but if the stuff is not up to scratch then don't get it.

My friends and i who bought OO at astrofest last yr, have a running joke about the Orion Optics 'Big Book of Lies'. it's a collection of all the things we have been told while asking about ur telescope and when it was going to be delivered

Collimation in my scope was spot on so i think that varies but it's not the end of the world!

The delivery box needs to be better!

Customer servise has to come higher up the list for them, they may make alot of optics for other comp. but they should listen to the customers as well.

All these things are problems however as i understand it the reason OO are in the place they are today is because of something like this which happened in the past. they were heavily critised for their mirrors. Because of that they got the ZIGO and started to make very good mirrors so here is hoping that the same happens here and that they improve.

Still happy with mine but that is mainly because i have it and it views blow me away everytime i use it

p.s. Who will tel them? Why don't you do it Brympton as it is your thread, if you want that is?

[GazOC]

Thats the point isn't it? Its not up to scratch and people are buying elsewhere because of the poor mechanics, the argument that its OK because it supports the local area is ridiculous TBH. Were are talking an expensive scientific instrument here, they should source the parts from companies who can manufacture them to a high enough standard, not from Joe Bloggs down the road because he's a nice bloke.

[TheThing]

What a real shame. I've often looked at the OO ads in S@N and drolled over their scopes. Like others, I have thought that (one day!) I would 'upgrade' to an OO scope, but this thread has really put me off.

Having said that, if OO can be invited to read this thread, take on board constructive crticism and mend their ways, then I'm sure that I (and hopefully others!) would reconsider them.

[TheThing]

... Thats not a telescope - thats a pair of mirrors supplied in a metal packing tube as a home build project...

I spat coffee over th work computer when I read that - sadly true, but als very funny!

[nitram100]

When i bought my 10" Europa about 6 years back i was a bit of a newbie, so i didn't know what the hell a mirror cell was, how important a mount was, what a spider vane was etc!

As time went on i noticed other, cheaper scopes arriving on the market with open mirror cells, better mounts, thin 4 vane spiders, 2 inch focusers etc which really started to pee me off because they were cheaper than my Europa!

My only consolation was that the mirror was far better than these cheaper scopes, but to me it's not worth all the hassle of having to upgrade your tube just so that you can get a good mirror, although it is nice saying that the scope was made in Britain by hand.

[jakey]

I seem to recall a thread very recently when a member was going to compare a skywatchers optics with oo, has this been done yet cos if it has I cant find it?

[ngc2403]

Brympton,

sorry for the long wait for the reply but i must of missed it in your post sorry,

you asked about what i meant by 'not getting what you wanted with the scope'

i was meaning that the scope that arrived from OO is not rolls royce Quality.

You were quiet rightly wanting something that worked out of the box but was better SW. what you got was better optics in a worse package and that was all i meant. i would of been less than happy with your scope too for that price is it terrible what condiction they have given it to you in.

ally

[Jeff RV]

With reference to the "Sand casting" comment, Lots of things are cast in sand including "Ferrari" engine blocks etc, but it's the finishing off of that part that matters.

What a cheek!!

Jeff.

[ngc2403]

I seem to recall a thread very recently when a member was going to compare a skywatchers optics with oo, has this been done yet cos if it has I cant find it?

http://stargazerslounge.com/index.php/topic,30011.0.html

not done a proper one yeah because of the weather i think

[narrowbandpaul]

am I right in understanding that you wanted a bulid to order scope delivered in one week!

no-one can do that. If you hurry them up, then they will send what theyve done after one week.

As ally said, our delivery was 6 weks from mid feb, but didnt see the scope till May. Am i bothered...no.

I got a 10" F4 1/10th wave custom made scope. My telescope is very accurate.

I do concede that the focusser with the diametrically opposed thumbscrews dont hold the camera absolutely rigid, but the were meant so that an eyepiece could be centered in the focusser.

And the tube rings could be rigider, but apart from those small, easily solved problems, my scope was well worth the wait.

I do feel sorry for you that your telescope came in a condition that was not up to scratch, but if you push them to make a scope fast something has to give.

Having been very kindly given a tour round the factory by john, I saw all that went into making even the smallest of apertures. They now have a CNC machine, and can produce very accurate tube rings.

They are a company always improving their technique and quality, so if your scope wasnt up to your standard, then I am sure it will be soon.

Fix the focusser by tapping a third screw, and order a set of CNC tube rings. This will hopefully sort out your scope.

There zygo interferometer is on site, and the results are the ones that matter. the photons dont know of the tube quality or finish

I accept your genuinely warranted complaints but can we stop assisinating Orion Optics as we are lucky to have such fine opticians in the UK

[brympton]

Who will tel them? Why don't you do it Brympton as it is your thread, if you want that is?

If I thought it would do any good I probably would. You only need to read the replies posted here that I have received. There is no apology, no "it should not have arrived in that condition", no offer to make amends or anything. Even after sending all the images with a complete description of the problems. I'm afraid the truth is that Orion Optics see this as acceptable and I do not. I was not sure when I started this thread what the reaction would be but it is clear that I am not alone. I will continue to post updates to this thread and let the facts speak for themselves. From my point of view I just want my money back - in full - and within a reasonable timeframe. We shall see if Orion Optics have the decency to do this

[ngc2403]

so you would like someone else to tell them about the thread that is fine, just thought it might be better to ask first and not steal your thunder

ally

[nitram100]

Best way to alert them is by posting on their yahoo group 'oriontelescopes', Barry posts on there and i believe he is the owners son.

[John]

I accept your genuinely warranted complaints but can we stop assisinating Orion Optics as we are lucky to have such fine opticians in the UK

Perhaps they should stick with making optics then - they don't seem able to fully cope with the other aspects of making and selling a complete instrument - which is after all what we are paying for.

John