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From Ghost to Iris and beyond, QHY 367C rocks!

vdb

By vdb
in Imaging - Deep Sky

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ollypenrice

ollypenrice

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It's a great image from a camera that has to get everyone talking. It's also a camera which will have FSQ106 owners twitching because it has the holy grail of full frame sensor and small pixels. Personally I'd be even more excited if the camera were available in monochrome but, even if it it isn't, I have to be tempted. By full frame astro camera standards it's a very reasonable price as well.

Tell us more about this great location. :icon_mrgreen:

Olly

 

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gorann

gorann

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I would love a camera like that but most of my imaging equipment would probably not be up to the task of illuminating a chip that size. Would the APS-C sized ASI071 be up to the task? Sony chip and about the same pixel size.

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tomato

tomato

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Breath taking image, you just cannot beat a good Signal to Noise Ratio.

I'm starting to look at dark sky locations for when I retire,  that, along with a permenant observatory, will be the best investment I make in deep sky imaging.

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vdb

vdb

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Oh wow what a lot of nice comments! So yes of course the location is Les Granges, where else :-D.

On the topic of monochrome versus OSC, well I have taken with the D810A under severe LP this image:

29888562840_204f0d80b4_n.jpgM31 by Yves, on Flickr

I also took nice Ha images with the OSC. The secret is the low read noise, so even in LP locations this will give any mono CCD a run (I know I had many of those, Olly knows ;-)) You just take lot's of short exposures, I know go as low as 1 minute when in LP zone. (and Ha is also possible with these camera's you loose resolution of course)

If you are doing pure NB then a mono would be better of course. But CMOS based OSC with low read noise really have the potential of speeding up image acquisition especially under sky's like at Olly's place ...

With my previous mono CCD I would have needed 2 to 3 mights and I would still have now an unfinished picture ... My goal was to take 10 hours, but as this one of my first images I did a quick process of the 4.5 hours and then I called it a day.

The advantage of the QHY 367C and the 128C is that they have zero amp glow the smaller chips have still some degree of Amp glow requiring darks, here I only used bias frames.

 

/Yves

 

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ollypenrice

ollypenrice

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Better still! :icon_salut:

My take on this camera is that it's the chip and its supporting technology which are making it so fast, rather than the OSC side of it. I really wish I could read the future so as to know whether they intend to realease a mono version of this chip. Even if they don't I have to agree with you that this is a killer camera for the FSQ106.

With 36 megapixels you should still have workable resolution in Ha, especially if not presenting the images at full size.

I'm wondering about this camera in one half of the tandem Tak and the 11 meg CCD for NB in the other...*

Olly

*Now I know why you put a webcam inside the robotic shed. Curses!!!:evil4:

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wimvb

wimvb

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2 hours ago, vdb said:

Oh wow what a lot of nice comments! So yes of course the location is Les Granges, where else :-D.

 

 

I've seen a few nice images coming from Chile. I believe ESO has an obsy there. And they do mono only, afaIk.

(But don't let Olly know. He may wish to relocate there)

:wink:

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gorann

gorann

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2 hours ago, vdb said:

Oh wow what a lot of nice comments! So yes of course the location is Les Granges, where else :-D.

On the topic of monochrome versus OSC, well I have taken with the D810A under severe LP this image:

29888562840_204f0d80b4_n.jpgM31 by Yves, on Flickr

I also took nice Ha images with the OSC. The secret is the low read noise, so even in LP locations this will give any mono CCD a run (I know I had many of those, Olly knows ;-)) You just take lot's of short exposures, I know go as low as 1 minute when in LP zone. (and Ha is also possible with these camera's you loose resolution of course)

If you are doing pure NB then a mono would be better of course. But CMOS based OSC with low read noise really have the potential of speeding up image acquisition especially under sky's like at Olly's place ...

With my previous mono CCD I would have needed 2 to 3 mights and I would still have now an unfinished picture ... My goal was to take 10 hours, but as this one of my first images I did a quick process of the 4.5 hours and then I called it a day.

The advantage of the QHY 367C and the 128C is that they have zero amp glow the smaller chips have still some degree of Amp glow requiring darks, here I only used bias frames.

 

/Yves

 

Very interesting! How does D810A perform compared to the QHY367C - big difference in noise? What is "the 128C"?

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wimvb

wimvb

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40 minutes ago, ollypenrice said:

Better still! :icon_salut:

My take on this camera is that it's the chip and its supporting technology which are making it so fast, rather than the OSC side of it. I really wish I could read the future so as to know whether they intend to realease a mono version of this chip. Even if they don't I have to agree with you that this is a killer camera for the FSQ106.

With 36 megapixels you should still have workable resolution in Ha, especially if not presenting the images at full size.

I'm wondering about this camera in one half of the tandem Tak and the 11 meg CCD for NB in the other...*

Olly

*Now I know why you put a webcam inside the robotic shed. Curses!!!:evil4:

I believe that qhy will release mono versions of their larger chip cameras. But they may have debayered osc sensors to do so*. The astro market is most likely too small for Sony to be bothered.

A disadvantage (other than the minor inconvenience of having to invest in larger optics) of these cameras is that you need lots of subs, especially under light polluted skies. Integration time for good results is still several hours. At 36 mpixel*2 (2 bytes per pixel, even with a 14 bit adc) you need a very powerful computer just to stack. If you do 4.5 hours in 1 minute subs, that's quite a few Gigabytes on one night. (Even Yves' 145 subs that went into M31 is quite a large number. Integration time of 12 hours?) The time it takes to calibrate, stack and process these images adds up fast.

Btw Yves, according to qhy the sensor in the qhy367c is the same as in the d810a.

* when trying this, they lost the microlenses in the process, thus lowering the sensitivity. And got rid of minor diffraction effects as a bonus.

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wimvb

wimvb

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9 minutes ago, gorann said:

Very interesting! How does D810A perform compared to the QHY367C - big difference in noise? What is "the 128C"?

Another qhy camera, "only" 24 Mpixels. Same sensor as in D600, according to qhy. Modern cmos cameras are basically cooled dslrs, without automatic white balance. :wink:

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wimvb

wimvb

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8 minutes ago, vdb said:

So the 128C is the D600 chip at 24MP, so cheaper and maybe better as pixels are larger ... and less processing power needed.

I have a D600 debayered and I don't see any loss in sensitivity ...

29600380290_08ff96999f_z.jpgPropellor-Crescent by Yves, on Flickr

I read about the possible loss of sensitivity in the qhy forum, a while back. It was measured in a side by side comparative test, but not a major issue, I believe. Unfortunately I can't find the reference at the moment.

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Gina

Gina

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Processing could be quite a problem with these very high resolution cameras.  I have enough with the ASI1600MM-Cool with 16MPx using PixInsight - I bought a fast games machine and added 2x500GB SSDs, one for software and one for data, running Linux Mint for better speed.  Works pretty well.  I'm not going bigger than the four thirds sensor, as I have 1.25" Astrodon 3nm filters and can't afford bigger.  It all works well enough with minimal vignetting which is easily corrected with flats.  I use the ZWO EFWmini directly on the camera to get the filters close to the sensor.

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gorann

gorann

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Does anyone know how the chilled ASI071 (with a Sony APS-C chip) compares to these full format QHY cameras, particularly with regard to noise, amp glow etc. Many of us do not have the optics needed for a full frame OSC.

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