First scope need advice!

[JTmunmun]

I just came across this forum in my research for telescopes and it looks like a fantastic trove of great information. I recently decided to jump into astronomy after always having a fascination with looking at photos online of the universe for years, now I want to see it first hand. So, I have been searching for my ideal first scope. Let me start by saying my budget is $1,000-1,500 (~ £800- £1200) for the scope itself, not including accessories. I want to start it up fairly nicely - I have looked through a cheaper maybe $200 telescope, and while it was fun to see certain things like the moon, Pleiades, etc., it was somewhat underwhelming overall especially regarding planets. I basically want what everyone wants - the best view and clarity for the buck combined with ease of use. I live in a fairly light polluted area (Tampa Bay, FL) but it's not the worst either, so that may be something to consider. I also want something that (though not something I am planning on pursuing immediately) can easily be setup for astrophotography. I'm interested in viewing DSO and planets.

From what I have been looking at, the Celestron NexStar 8SE seems really fantastic, is in the price range, and seems pretty easy to get started with. Does anyone have a suggestion for myself that is better than that in the same range, or have anything to say about that particular model?

Thank you in advance for any assistance!

[Davey-T]

Nexstar is a good scope for planets but be aware that is an alt / az mount which makes it not very suitable for imaging, OK for planetary videos buy not so good for DSOs.

Dave

[Dave In Vermont]

If you've been looking at those lovely, glossy photo's in magazines, let's start by bringing you back to Earth. You won't be able to see a view like that with any telescope you're likely to buy. Here's a more realistic viewpoint(s):

£1,000 to £1,500 will get you a very nice telescope though. But we'll need more information from you first - like what sort of objects out there are you most fascinated by? Are you thinking of primarily visual-astronomy? Or photgraphy (astro-photography)?

Would you be interested in finding your way around 'up there?' Ever heard of Stellarium?

We'll get you there - and with the best equipment tailor-made to what you like!

Be back later -

Dave

 

PS - 'Primarily' is the operative-word. It will help determine if the mount should cost a small fortune, or the optics & aperture will be key.

[cletrac1922]

Hi JTmunmun, and welcome from the Land Down Under. Depends on what you are looking for in a scope. Just to observe, and something which is quick and easy to set up, or something more complex, to tackle the world of astrophotography. Great beginner scope, without GOTO recommend Skywatcher 10" collapsible Dobson. Alternate if want something for tracking, then Skywatcher ED80 on a EQ5 mount. Eyepieces is what set you apart when viewing. The Dobson comes with a 10mm and 25mm eyepieces. Have a 17mm wide angle, which use most of the time when going into schools and scout/guide groups with astronomy club. Talking of astronomy clubs, before rushing out and buying a scope, go along to your local club, and members will only be happy to share information, and you can also observe through members scopes. Most clubs also have loan scopes as well. Cheers  John  www.sas.org.au

[johninderby]

Hi

Being able to say what it is you'll be obseving most can be a tricky question to answer properly at this stage so best not to choose a specialist type of scope but to go for more of a general all round one. However info such as where you'll be observing from and is a scope that's easy and quick to set up important or are you the type of person that enjoys getting into the more technical side of things will help.

The Nexstar 8SE is an excellent scope for general visual use and very easy to set up and start observing. However it does have it's limitations with the main one being the Nexstar mount which is rather light duty for an 8" OTA. It's just barely able to cope with the weight of the OTA. However don't let me put you off as it's still a nice portable set-up but you just have to be aware that the view through the eyepiece will wobble a bit whenever you touch the scope. Also an SCT will need frequent colimarion but that's something that's easy to learn and nothing to be afraid of. Perhaps a second hand CPC 800? Now that is a very solid mount with the same OTA. 

You can't beat a Dobsonian for value for money and so easy to use You can get a far bigger aperture than any other type of scope for the money. A 10" dobsonian  GOTO is within your budget although a good old manual one is a good starting point for the beginner. However be aware that the 12" dob will seem huge and heavy to the beginner. The 10" hits the sweet spot in size and portability and will show you a tremendous amount. Best to see one in person before buying one though to sppreciate the size.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians.html

Also don't forget to budget for aceesories and most importantly eyepieces. They can easily add hundreds to your spend.

Attending an observing seasion with a club or an astro event of some sort is a great way to start to make some sense out of what can be an often overwhelming choice of where to start.

           John

[Cosmic Geoff]

It is generally wiser to start with a cheap general-purpose scope to get your bearings on what interests you and what is possible or desirable, rather than plunging in with an expensive and more specialised telescope outfit.

The Celestron C8 SE is a nice scope, if you want a general-purpose visual scope with GoTo and a large-ish aperture which is still portable. I note that you live in a light-polluted area, so galaxies will be largely unviewable and un-photographable. Star clusters look good in a C8 even from a light-polluted site though.  For planets, the C8 will serve quite well, but manage your expectations. Some of the planets look like a plain round dot in a $200 scope and that's what they look like in a $2000 scope too. If you are willing to spend, more expensive variants of the C8 have better mounts.

As for GoTo or no GoTo - do you think that amateur astronomy is about looking for objects or at them?

Many people say that astro-photography is a separate hobby which requires quite different kit from visual.

[Alan64]

It is understandable that beginners tend to place visual and imaging in the same astronomical basket.  In reality, the two exercises are in two different baskets, in two different galaxies, light-millennia apart.  Imaging is the far more expensive exercise of the two.

With visual, you sit there at the telescope, pop in an ocular, and look at things, in real time, in the moment.  You not only see with your eye, but with your mind as well, and the mind soars.

With imaging, a camera takes the place of one's eye, but the camera must keep its "eye-lid" open without blinking, and all the while with the telescope and camera being held very rigidly in position as it tracks an object, impervious to the winds blowing it must be, whilst collecting the light of an object over varying periods of time, and over and over. Then you take all of those images and stack them into one image with a computer programme or programmes.

I would suggest one of these kits for visual initially...

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=917581&gclid=CjwKEAiA0fnFBRC6g8rgmICvrw0SJADx1_zA3zd7LfgUF9rxGPpDwdbwiA8ViFeLFSfGwrPigvBDIxoC6QTw_wcB&Q=&ap=y&c3api=1876%2C92051677802%2C&is=REG&A=details

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=917562&gclid=CjwKEAiA0fnFBRC6g8rgmICvrw0SJADx1_zA4Ff_uU-nP0m2ci9zFgFpIBcvpkbSbFv3UkEjM20VVhoCrcvw_wcB&is=REG&ap=y&m=Y&c3api=1876%2C92051677802%2C&Q=&A=details

Then, for deep-sky imaging, get on the wait-list for this...

https://www.astronomics.com/astro-tech-at72ed-72mm-refractor-telescope-black_p18263.aspx

But get these in the meantime... 

https://www.amazon.com/Deep-sky-Imaging-Primer-Charles-Bracken/dp/148180491X

https://www.amazon.com/Astrophotography-Manual-Practical-Scientific-Approach/dp/113877684X

Cameras, their sensors, are far more sensitive to light than the human eye, therefore cameras do not not need large telescopes in order to "see".

I would recommend taking baby-steps when approaching said discipline.

[JTmunmun]

Thank you for the detailed responses, I knew you all would get me thinking! I'll try to respond to everything in this post....
 

16 hours ago, Davey-T said:

Nexstar is a good scope for planets but be aware that is an alt / az mount which makes it not very suitable for imaging, OK for planetary videos buy not so good for DSOs.

Hmm this is a concern. The mount on the NexStar did stick out as looking kind of questionable to me. I definitely can forgo the imaging anyway as I primarily want to focus visual at this time. If a particular scope was better for being more "adaptable" for imaging in the future, I would prefer it, but it's not a main concern. Is the NexStar good for just visual DSOs or were you speaking mainly about imaging? This is the kit I was looking at: http://www.highpointscientific.com/celestron-nexstar-8se-computerized-telescope-bundle-11069

 

16 hours ago, Dave In Vermont said:

If you've been looking at those lovely, glossy photo's in magazines, let's start by bringing you back to Earth.

Are you thinking of primarily visual-astronomy? Or photgraphy (astro-photography)?

Oh I definitely don't expect to see anything like those photos! I did look at people's images across the web from the NexStar and they looked very pleasing to me. Though I do wonder how much difference there is from what you see in the eyepiece and those photos.

I'd primarily be interested in visual astronomy at this time. I am most fascinated by DSOs, but of course would like to look at planets as well. If I had to pick, definitely DSOs. 
 

9 hours ago, Cosmic Geoff said:

As for GoTo or no GoTo - do you think that amateur astronomy is about looking for objects or at them?

I think I'd prefer a go-to just knowing my personality. I am middle of the road technical and I find if there is too much technical setup from the get-go it can put me off. I usually end up getting into more technical details later on. 

 

8 hours ago, Alan64 said:

h visual, you sit there at the telescope, pop in an ocular, and look at things, in real time, in the moment.  You not only see with your eye, but with your mind as well, and the mind soars.

This is exactly what my main goal is. Imaging is secondary, and after reading all of the replies, not a priority at all really. 

[Davey-T]

The only problem with the Nexstar 8" is that it's a bit undermounted, for only doing visual then Alt / Az is better IMHO.

Dave

[LukeSkywatcher]

3 minutes ago, Davey-T said:

The only problem with the Nexstar 8" is that it's a bit undermounted, for only doing visual then Alt / Az is better IMHO.

Dave

A lot of people say the 8SE is a bit undermounted. I simply dont find this myself when using it. I must state though that i use it on the shortest possible height, which obviously with most tripods gives added stability. My one and only gripe (bone of contention) with the 8SE is the focusing knob. Its about as subtle as a sledgehammer. Its an easy fix, if i ever bother getting round to it.It an art form it itself to get it bang on the sweet spot. If the scope is out of focus (i dont mean out of collimation.......just simply out of focus), turning the focuser is like the ever lasting gob-stopper.............you just keep turning and turning and turning. 5 mins later, you find out you've been turning it the wrong way and you have to do a u-turn and turn it the other way for what seems an eternity.

Maybe its just me.

[johninderby]

When I used to have a Nexstar 8SE f fitted a Feather Touch microfocuser which really transformed the scope. It also greatly reduced vibration when focusing. Found the scope needed to be balanced just right or vibration became a problem. Also as mentioned not extending the legs helps a lot.

           John

[JOC]

1 hour ago, JTmunmun said:

Though I do wonder how much difference there is from what you see in the eyepiece and those photos.

Speaking as another total newbie, there is no comparison between the photos you can take as an amateur and what you see at the eyepiece.  There is no way your eye can mimic hours of light received stacked directly on top of itself as the photo imagers get to grips with.  You won't see huge amounts of colour as in those photos unless you are looking at a coloured star - in which case it will be a coloured pin-point of light - if you are lucky you might see a pale grey fuzzy background in M42, but it doesn't get hugely better than that IME so far.

[JTmunmun]

That is pretty much what I figured, so that is why I would like to have something that is easily adaptable for doing astrophotography in the future. I am definitely interested in doing it down the road, but funds prohibit from getting it all at once.

[LukeSkywatcher]

2 minutes ago, JTmunmun said:

That is pretty much what I figured, so that is why I would like to have something that is easily adaptable for doing astrophotography in the future. I am definitely interested in doing it down the road, but funds prohibit.

Really if you have aspirations of doing astro-imaging down the line then you most likely will have to have an EQ mount. You can buy one now just purely for observing (which will have Slo-Mo controls) and then down the line you can buy either a single or dual axis motor to retro fit to the existing mount, which will allow you to do astro-imaging.

[rockystar]

have a look through the sketching section, that will give you a good idea of what the visual observer sees at the eyepiece

[LukeSkywatcher]

6 minutes ago, rockystar said:

have a look through the sketching section, that will give you a good idea of what the visual observer sees at the eyepiece

Or buy yourself the latest edition of "Turn Left At Orion".

[JTmunmun]

1 hour ago, LukeSkywatcher said:

Really if you have aspirations of doing astro-imaging down the line then you most likely will have to have an EQ mount. You can buy one now just purely for observing (which will have Slo-Mo controls) and then down the line you can buy either a single or dual axis motor to retro fit to the existing mount, which will allow you to do astro-imaging.

Well it must be possible, I was looking at the photo gallery by The Admiral on here which look amazing, and it says they were taken on an Alitair on a NexStar 6SE/8SE mount! ;D Long term goals...
 

[LukeSkywatcher]

19 minutes ago, JTmunmun said:

Well it must be possible, I was looking at the photo gallery by The Admiral on here which look amazing, and it says they were taken on an Alitair on a NexStar 6SE/8SE mount! ;D Long term goals...
 

Absolutely. The "No EQ" photography thread is a complete eye opener as to what can be done with anything but an EQ. You are absolutely right to point this out. It takes a bit more effort to do, but you have seen the results.

The Admiral, does do it very well.

[JTmunmun]

Any suggestions for something similar to NexStar 8SE that is Go To with an EQ mount and also in the same price range of $1,000-1,500 (~ £800- £1200)? The more I think about it the more I feel like it's something I should try to get initially instead of having to modify and mess with down the road in order to take photos. I am definitely leaning against a Dobsonian simply due to the way it sits on the ground and viewing angle.

Edit: Going back and looking at the two links Alan64 posted earlier, I guess those would probably fall into what I just asked. What is going to be the big differences between the Celestron Advanced VX 8" f/10 SCT vs the Celestron Advanced VX 8 200mm f/5 Reflector (besides that obvious $500 difference). Would the extra $500 be worth it for those differences?

[Louis D]

3 hours ago, JTmunmun said:

Any suggestions for something similar to NexStar 8SE that is Go To with an EQ mount and also in the same price range of $1,000-1,500 (~ £800- £1200)? The more I think about it the more I feel like it's something I should try to get initially instead of having to modify and mess with down the road in order to take photos. I am definitely leaning against a Dobsonian simply due to the way it sits on the ground and viewing angle.

Edit: Going back and looking at the two links Alan64 posted earlier, I guess those would probably fall into what I just asked. What is going to be the big differences between the Celestron Advanced VX 8" f/10 SCT vs the Celestron Advanced VX 8 200mm f/5 Reflector (besides that obvious $500 difference). Would the extra $500 be worth it for those differences?

Be aware that GEMs can put the eyepiece at all sorts of awkward angles to try and view through.  The ability to easily rotate the tube in its tube rings would be essential for visual use.  For photography, this isn't as big a deal.

The VX 8 will have half the focal length, so it will be able to view objects twice as large as the SCT.  Tracking accuracy will also be less demanding at 1000mm than at 2000mm for long exposures.  You'll need to budget for a coma corrector (CC) for the Newt (VX 8) for photography or a focal reducer/field flattener for the SCT.  The CC would also be nice for visual use as well.  SCTs are a lot more expensive to make than Newts because they have an aspherical corrector plate and a precision moving mirror for focus.  The Newt has neither.  Only the parabolized primary of the Newt adds any real cost to the OTA.  The Newt will have better contrast than the SCT because of the smaller central obstruction.  It will have diffraction spikes, though, that the SCT won't have.

Dobsonians are vastly more stable than a tripod mounted OTA; however, they aren't really suitable for DSO astrophotography.  You do get the most aperture and lightest mount/OTA combination with dobs.  The eyepiece is also at pretty much the same orientation no matter where you point it in the sky.

To be honest, I'd go to a local star party and look through several different types of scopes before making up my mind.  There appear to be clubs in both Tampa and St. Pete.  The Tampa one appears to be having their big annual party on 3/18.  You might want to join just for the experience.  Hopefully the weather cooperates unlike last year.

I found I liked 8" sized dobs the best after attending a star party.  20 years ago, SCT views were uniformly mushy.  They're definitely better today, especially Celestron's EdgeHD line.  Views through them look almost refractor like to my eyes.  As you might guess, an APO refractor provides the best all around view possible for a given aperture.  No central obstruction and no diffraction spikes from the secondary spider.  The downside is their extreme cost per inch of aperture.

[brantuk]

6 hours ago, JTmunmun said:

What is going to be the big differences between the Celestron Advanced VX 8" f/10 SCT vs the Celestron Advanced VX 8 200mm f/5 Reflector

Hi JT - the difference is in the scopes - the mount is the same equatorial mount in both cases. The SCT has a long focal length and slow focal ratio which results in a narrower fov. These properties make SCT's good for focusing on and observing/imaging planets but not so good imaging dso's. It will take twice as long to gather subs than an f-5 scope and requires more accurate tracking and guiding. The Newtonian has a fast focal ratio and wider fov which facilitates dso imaging.

In terms of mounts - an alt/az mount has to track in two planes (altitude and azimuth). This requires two motors and guiding for reasonable results. But in this respect only observatory class mounts can get anywhere near the same quality of results as EQ mounts. An equatorial mount only has to track in a single plane (RA) - the planets rotation takes care of the other plane for us. It still needs guiding as well as minor adjustments in dec due to PA errors - but the natural path followed across the sky by an EQ mount is far preferable and more accurate for dso imaging with mass produced mounts. Hth

[JTmunmun]

Thank you, those are very helpful explanations. The Newt VX8 is sounding very nice to me right now, better than the NexStar 8SE for the same cost. I'm kind of ruling out the VX8 SCT at this point as $500 is a large difference. Astrophotography-wise the Newt VX8 seems to be the obvious choice between it and the Nex - how would it stack up visually? Better visuals would probably be my biggest swaying factor at this point.

I'll definitely have to look into the local groups in the area, and see if I can get a first hand look at the different types. Great idea!

[Cosmic Geoff]

2 hours ago, JTmunmun said:

I'll definitely have to look into the local groups in the area, and see if I can get a first hand look at the different types. Great idea!

I second that. 

On a personal note, a few months ago I contemplated upgrading my 8" f5 Newtonian telescope on a EQ-5 equatorial mount by adding a GoTo motor/controller kit to give an outfit similar in essence to the 8" Newt/AVX mentioned above. After some deliberation I concluded that a bulky outfit with equatorial GoTo that could put the eyepiece into near-unusable positions even with the tripod legs at their shortest was something I did not want. Assembling it would require several trips outside and take up to 15 minutes.  Instead I spent a significant amount extra to get the C8 SE SCT, which does the job of locating visual targets by GoTo and is a lot lighter, easier to manage and quicker to set up.   Your priorities may vary, but find out what DSO's you can actually photograph in your light polluted area before spending big bucks.

[Garethr]

JT 

 

I would suggest the   Skywatcher Explorer 150P-DS EQ-5 PRO GOTO  it's a good starting scope with a good GOTO mount.

It also has the bonus of being able to attach your DSLR and your on the first steps to imaging.  Agree the eye piece ends up in some strange positions but rotating the OTA is easy enough.   

Should retail at under $1000.

 

Gareth 

[Louis D]

1 hour ago, Garethr said:

JT 

 

I would suggest the   Skywatcher Explorer 150P-DS EQ-5 PRO GOTO  it's a good starting scope with a good GOTO mount.

It also has the bonus of being able to attach your DSLR and your on the first steps to imaging.  Agree the eye piece ends up in some strange positions but rotating the OTA is easy enough.   

Should retail at under $1000.

 

Gareth 

Do you know of anyone offering this for sale in the US?  I couldn't locate anyone.  FLO would deliver it to the US for about the cost of VAT, though.