William Optics Star 71 F/4.9 Apo: why discontinued?

[Martin Meredith]

Does anyone know why this scope is being discontinued? I heard of some QC issues but it seems a little hasty to kill off what seems to be a great little performer. I was hoping to pick one up at some point. Maybe now is a good time to scout around… unless anyone is considering selling one 

Are there rumours of anything equivalent or similar in the pipeline?

Martin

[sloz1664]

Hi Martin,

I personally think they have developed a very good scope. It had quality issues, according to posts on various astro sites, but I have one and I have no issues whatsoever with it. I think WO have realized they have a very good scope on their hands with optics that are nearly as good as optics from scopes 4x the price and they sold it too cheaply. The next generation will be marketed slightly differently (as they always do) emphasizing on higher quality, 100% inspection probably including certification and at a much higher price......

Steve

[nicoscy]

You can always get it from Teleskop Service. They usually stock scopes much longer after other rebranders stop stocking them.

[DaveS]

TS have their version in stock if you move quickly

http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p7085_TS-Imaging-Star71---71mm-f-4-9-Imaging-APO---covers-full-sized-sensors.html

Looks like they also have the WO version in stock too

http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p7248_William-Optics-WO-Star-71mm-f4-9-Imaging-APO-Refractor---2-5--Focuser.html

Failing those, you could try the 80 f/4.4 though I'm still waiting for first light on mine.

http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p7224_TS-Imaging-Star-80-mm-f-4-4---6-element-Flatfield-APO-Telescope.html

[Martin Meredith]

Thanks for the tips. The TS one is 300 euros cheaper, I note, so apart from lacking the WO bling it seems the more sensible option...

Dave, that 80 f/4.4 certainly looks really interesting. And fast! Is that also an own brand, and if so, do you know what is the original? It wasn't too clear to me whether it could be used for the occasional visual grab'n'go; I guess it has similar requirements to the WO, needing a special diagonal and only taking 1.25" eyepieces?

I hope you manage to get first light soon!

Martin

[DaveS]

Hi, the 80 f/4.4 is their 80 f/6 with a built in flattener-reducer. I long thought so but an email exchange with TS confirmed it (The inner box said 80mm f/6 and I thought they may have shipped the wrong 'scope). Just a note. the one I have doesn't have the tilt plate, possibly they found it wasn't needed after all.

I think it's primarily an astrograph, but can be used visually with a special diagonal.

[geordie85]

I've emailed Williams optics asking if and why it has been discontinued. They didn't give me any information as to why but they did inform me that they will be releasing a star 71 II at some point next month.

I just hope it's not ridiculously over priced. I'd only just persuaded the wife to let me spend a grand on the old one which is out the window now

[sloz1664]

5 hours ago, geordie85 said:

I've emailed Williams optics asking if and why it has been discontinued. They didn't give me any information as to why but they did inform me that they will be releasing a star 71 II at some point next month.

I just hope it's not ridiculously over priced. I'd only just persuaded the wife to let me spend a grand on the old one which is out the window now

As stated earlier by DaveS the TS option is still available from Ts Optics http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p7085_TS-Imaging-Star71---71mm-f-4-9-Imaging-APO---covers-full-sized-sensors.html

I've dealt with them on numerous occasions and they are excellent. You even get a packet of gummy bears with your order

 

Steve

[nicoscy]

I can vouch as well for both excellent service and tasty gummy bears!

[geordie85]

6 hours ago, sloz1664 said:

As stated earlier by DaveS the TS option is still available from Ts Optics http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p7085_TS-Imaging-Star71---71mm-f-4-9-Imaging-APO---covers-full-sized-sensors.html

I've dealt with them on numerous occasions and they are excellent. You even get a packet of gummy bears with your order

 

Steve

I am going to wait and see what comes out next month before I make my final decision. 

The free gummy bears does sound like a deal maker. Only time will tell

 

EDIT: Do you have any images taken with the TS scope?

[Jonk]

Does anyone have any further news on the potential Star 71 Mk2?

I can't find any recent WO news.

[ollypenrice]

On 19/2/2016 at 03:31, geordie85 said:

I've emailed Williams optics asking if and why it has been discontinued. They didn't give me any information as to why but they did inform me that they will be releasing a star 71 II at some point next month.

I just hope it's not ridiculously over priced. I'd only just persuaded the wife to let me spend a grand on the old one which is out the window now

It seems pretty clear that the Star 71 was under-priced, which is why the number of returns was so insanely high. I personally know half a dozen people who sent the first one back. But when it's good it's ruddy marvellous, no doubt about that.

Under-pricing is the bane of amateur astronomy in my view. The Star 71 is a competitor for the Tak FSQ85 and beats it fair and square on corrected circle. The Baby Q will not cover a full frame chip, whatever it says on the spec sheet. When the first Star 71 images started to appear, the ones I saw were narrowband and I thought, 'Blue bloat/big stars will be the killer on this.' Not so, the Star 71 can give nice tight little broadband stars. I supect that WO have found that it can't be done consistently at this price and are doing the right thing.

We'd all like something for nothing but we all know that this is rarely possible. Shame!!

Olly

[gnomus]

I have had some communication with WO (because I am looking for a second Star 71).  They tell me that the new scope will have 'better glass' but will be 4 element instead of 5 element.  They say these 4 elements will be set out in a 2-1-1 configuration (which doesn't mean a lot to me, but will to most folks ).  The TS version of the 5 element Star 71 is no longer available.  Their Mk II will also be a 4 element design.  WO were pretty free with this information, but when I asked about F/L they could not give me this.  The estimated delivery time was end of March but one retailer that I spoke with suggested that this might be a little optimistic.

I had to return my first WO Star 71 because of horrific coma throughout the entire image, but I am very happy with the replacement that was sent.  Given that there did seem to be such QC issues I would be somewhat wary of getting one on the used market. 

Not sure what the alternatives will be if the Mk II turns out not to be suitable for my planned 'dual rig'.  I've been pretty much everywhere trying to track down an original.

[Jonk]

The new Star 71-II apparently is being released in Europe in June, the first batch appears to be available in the US at the moment.http://www.cloudynights.com/topic/535797-now-that-wo-star-71-is-discontinuedwhich-scope/

[Uranium235]

Hmmm... interesting, they seem to have lost an element. Its now 4 instead of 5.

[ollypenrice]

On 18/2/2016 at 03:31, geordie85 said:

I've emailed Williams optics asking if and why it has been discontinued. They didn't give me any information as to why but they did inform me that they will be releasing a star 71 II at some point next month.

I just hope it's not ridiculously over priced. I'd only just persuaded the wife to let me spend a grand on the old one which is out the window now

The problem is that the original was ridiculously under priced which is probably why they had the number of returns that they did. It is a serious rival for the Tak Baby Q but only when it works.

Olly

[Pompey Monkey]

37 minutes ago, ollypenrice said:

The problem is that the original was ridiculously under priced which is probably why they had the number of returns that they did. It is a serious rival for the Tak Baby Q but only when it works.

Olly

I know this from direct experience.

If anyone's thinking of buying second hand,be very, very careful! 

[gnomus]

I have been keeping an eye on the Mk II.  The current info on the website is a little confusing - I am not clear if all of the data for the Mk II is up there.  Will the 4 element scope have the same F/L as the Mk I?  Will the field curvature be similar?  I was hoping to put together a dual rig since I have a good copy of the Mk I.

[geordie85]

2 hours ago, ollypenrice said:

The problem is that the original was ridiculously under priced which is probably why they had the number of returns that they did. It is a serious rival for the Tak Baby Q but only when it works.

Olly

That's exactly why I wanted one before it got discontinued. Shame i wasn't quick enough.

If you ever fancy selling one of yours Olly I'll happily take it off your hands :-D 

[steppenwolf]

Quote

They tell me that the new scope will have 'better glass' but will be 4 element instead of 5 element.  They say these 4 elements will be set out in a 2-1-1 configuration

I think this is a backward step by WO - IMHO you DO need 5 elements to get a really flat field which is why the FSQ 85 doesn't do what it says on the tin! I do wish manufacturers would simply produce a high quality corrected set of optics and charge a fair price for it instead of this nonsense of selling too cheap and failing on QA. If you are into AP, you must have accepted it isn't a low cost option so imagers should be prepared to pay a sensible price but expect the QA to reflect that price - simples!

[gnomus]

13 minutes ago, steppenwolf said:

I think this is a backward step by WO - IMHO you DO need 5 elements to get a really flat field which is why the FSQ 85 doesn't do what it says on the tin! .....

That was my experience.  I do wonder if you might have roused the Penrice-creature with that one though, Steve?  

[Davey-T]

Perhaps someone should drop a line to William Yang, he does seem to take a pride in his products and answer folks queries.

As the majority of his customers are probably in the USA  they usually have even more money to squander on astro' kit

I have a "good" Star71 and also a WO 110FLT , a replacement Star71 that offered the same guaranteed flat field could no doubt sell for £2000.00 and it wouldn't need all those annoying Tak' adapters 

Dave

[gnomus]

1 minute ago, Davey-T said:

Perhaps someone should drop a line to William Yang, he does seem to take a pride in his products and answer folks queries.

As the majority of his customers are probably in the USA  they usually have even more money to squander on astro' kit

I have a "good" Star71 and also a WO 110FLT , a replacement Star71 that offered the same guaranteed flat field could no doubt sell for £2000.00 and it wouldn't need all those annoying Tak' adapters 

Dave

I have e-mailed him.  He is upfront that this is a 2-1-1 design.  After my FSQ 85 experience I asked him if it was a Petzval, but he said it was not.  Although I asked, he did not tell me the focal length.

[gnomus]

I also have a good Star 71 (at second attempt).  I'd buy a second.  But £2000?  Let's not give WO any ideas.  I'm Aberdonian, don't you know.

[Davey-T]

20 minutes ago, gnomus said:

I also have a good Star 71 (at second attempt).  I'd buy a second.  But £2000?  Let's not give WO any ideas.  I'm Aberdonian, don't you know.

At least you wouldn't have to spend another £500.00 on "extras" to get it working 

 I have a Meade fork mounted scope, an excellent design ruined by accountants wanting it made cheaper, if they had stuck with the original design it could have ruled the world.

Dave