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Advice Please On Lunar / Planetary Imaging Cameras?

Alkaid

By Alkaid
in Getting Started With Imaging

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Alkaid

Alkaid

Posted
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Hi there,

I'd like to get started with imaging the moon and also at a later stage the planets.  I'm planning to use my 6" F8 Newt on my driven mount for this, coupled with a planetary webcam  / Registax combo, but am bewildered by the amount of webcams (and prices!) that the market has to offer.

I looked at Celestron's Neximage range, plus Imaging Source products and then also found the Opticstar Coolair range.  This is a completely new foray for me, so I'm not quite prepared to spend thousands on a super duper CCD, but would like to part with perhaps a few hundred quid in order to get started.  We all have to start somewhere eh!

Do you guys have any recomendations please?

Many thanks,

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Bizibilder

Bizibilder

Posted
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Another vote for the ZWO ASI120  - I would suggest the mono camera as it will give excellent images of the Moon (and Sun with the appropriate filter like Baader film).  For planetary and colour work you would need to get a filterwheel and filters but these are not too expensive (I use a manual filter wheel and a set of RGB filters).  These can be bought at a later date when funds permit.

One supplier can be found here:  http://www.365astronomy.com/ZWO-ASI120MM-Monochrome-1-3-CMOS-USB2.0-Camera-with-Autoguider-Port.html    (usual disclaimer)

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JamesF

JamesF

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The hot camera for planetary imaging at the moment is the ASI224MC, but that may be a bit over your budget.  The ASI120 models are good too, but the price difference between those and the 224 combined with the lack of planetary imaging available at the moment makes me think that if you could afford the 120 you'd be better waiting a while and saving a little more for the 224.

At the cheaper end of the scale is the ASI034MC.  Given the choice of that or the Neximage cameras and the Opticstar range I think I'd probably go for the ASI.  What I've read about the Opticstar cameras wouldn't encourage me to buy one and there seem to be very mixed opinions on the Neximage range.

If you look at the other "usual suspects" such as the Imaging Source cameras and the Celestron Skyris range I think it's hard to justify paying their prices given the other products on the market regardless of the quality of the cameras.

James

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JamesF

JamesF

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Oh, it's probably worth pointing out that the ASI120 comes in USB2 and USB3 models.  On no basis other than my own experience I think I'd say that the USB3 models are a little more robust.  They can sometimes be a bit picky about cabling though and I think there are some USB3 chipsets they're known not to work with, but the latter issue may have been sorted.

James

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JamesF

JamesF

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The Skyris on offer is still more expensive than the 224MC :(  I do like the Skyris camera design.  It's just the prices that are the killer for me.  The fact that they use CCDs rather than CMOS sensors might even make them more appealing to some, but I think with the 224 sensor for most cases Sony have probably produced the CCD-killer.

James

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Scorpius

Scorpius

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Hi there,

I'd like to get started with imaging the moon and also at a later stage the planets.  I'm planning to use my 6" F8 Newt on my driven mount for this, coupled with a planetary webcam  / Registax combo, but am bewildered by the amount of webcams (and prices!) that the market has to offer.

I looked at Celestron's Neximage range, plus Imaging Source products and then also found the Opticstar Coolair range.  This is a completely new foray for me, so I'm not quite prepared to spend thousands on a super duper CCD, but would like to part with perhaps a few hundred quid in order to get started.  We all have to start somewhere eh!

Do you guys have any recomendations please?

Many thanks,

You didn’t mention the FL of your newt but it must be in the neighborhood of about 1200 mm. Only mention this since you plan to start with lunar imaging and most planetary webcams will not be able to capture the entire lunar disc with that OTA because the camera’s FOV will be too narrow. So you’ll probably need to create mosaics to get a complete image of the moon during most if not all of its phases - unless you get a faster scope and/or larger sensor.

I bought the Neximage 5 when I started out but wouldn’t begin to recommend it over the ZWO line of cameras since they get such rave reviews by more experienced imagers. However, I’ve been pleased with its performance when combined with my 8” SCT and at $199 the price is hard to beat for an entry level planetary webcam. Just keep in mind, although the ZWO ASI120 is touted as an “all in one” camera, you may find its FOV too narrow for many DSO’s if you decide to try some deep sky imaging at some point down the road.

Also, I’ve never tried a mono camera for planetary but if your goal is color images, you may want to think about how quickly you’ll be able to switch filters and refocus (if necessary) before rotation becomes an issue, especially if using a manual filter wheel. Either way, one thing you might want to add to your list is a decent barlow since the planets will be smallish on the image without one at a FL of 1200 mm.

I’ve posted these a few times before but just so you’re aware the Neximage 5 can in fact produce some acceptable planetary images - here’s Saturn and Jupiter imaged with that camera attached to a Celestron 8” SCT.

Good luck with whatever you decide and welcome to the challenging but rewarding hobby of astrophotography… :)

post-37916-0-51560900-1440686486.jpg

post-37916-0-50921100-1440686496.jpg

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JamesF

JamesF

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You didn’t mention the FL of your newt but it must be in the neighborhood of about 1200 mm. Only mention this since you plan to start with lunar imaging and most planetary webcams will not be able to capture the entire lunar disc with that OTA because the camera’s FOV will be too narrow. So you’ll probably need to create mosaics to get a complete image of the moon during most if not all of its phases - unless you get a faster scope and/or larger sensor.

Good point.   At that focal length you have no choice for full discs but to make mosaics unless you use something like a DSLR.  Mosaics aren't really hard and depending on the mount there are tools to help you collect all the data for them, but they can be time-consuming to put together.

James

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gnomus

gnomus

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A few months ago, the ZWO ASI 120 MM-S would have been an easy recommendation.  Now, however, ZWO have come out with a raft of new cameras.  The ZWO ASI 174 looks very attractive for lunar and solar work.  And folks have been producing some great images with the new ZWO 224.  I suggest that you search this site for images taken with these cameras.  The 120 is still a great camera though.  

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JamesF

JamesF

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TBH I like high power when conditions allow, so would tend to try to close in on specific areas of the moon. So a 5x TV powermate would be useful here?

That depends on the camera you choose.  A fair rule of thumb for getting the most out of a camera for lunar/solar/planetary imaging is that the effective focal ratio of the optical train should be five to six times the pixel size of the camera in um.  The ASI120 (and in fact the 224) have 3.75um pixels, so a good choice of focal ratio would perhaps be around f/20.  As the OTA you're planning to use is f/8, a 2.5x barlow or similar would be ideal.  As it happens there's a 1.25" 2.5x GSO/Revelation barlow whose relative cheapness belies it's quality, so if that's the situation you find yourself in then it's worth considering.

Obviously if you go for a camera with, say, 5.6um pixels then you'd be looking for a focal ratio somewhere in the region of f/30, so you'd need to look at how that might be achieved.

Initially though I'd stick with the lower power barlows anyhow.  There's enough going on when you start out that making life more difficult for yourself by using a high power multiplier in the optical train isn't that helpful.

James

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JamesF

JamesF

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Hmm.  I should have added that the reason for this rule of thumb is that it gets you in the right sort of area so that the resolution of the camera matches the resolution of the OTA.  Using higher power multipliers at that point gets you no better resolution (though a larger image) at the cost of making the imaging process more difficult.  It's simpler at that point just to make the image bigger in processing...

James

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Garethr

Garethr

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+ 1 for any of the ZWO range,

Visit the web site they seem to have something in every price range. Although the 034 looks a bit limited.

As someone who has a "few" web cams,sony ccd cams and a nexstar 5 sitting in a drawer I have

Learnt the hard way. Cheap isn't always the cheapest aside from the frustration of not achieving an image even close to what you are observing the mucking about adapting or trying to find the right drivers is such a waste of time. The next image dosent even come with the drivers on the install disc. You have to find the Phillips spc90000000000000 driver and install that! I'm sorry but I have just paid a £100 plus for a camera that you can't even be bothered to write your own drivers for.

Sorry for the rant but I feel imaging is a hard enough hobby to learn in the first place and having substandard equipment can just put people off what is a fantastic hobby.

So my advice is to buy the best you can afford, colour for ease of use, and then take those skills and enjoy the fruits of your labours.

Yes I aspire to reach Ollys stunning images but realise it takes years to reach that level of ability and no small amount of investment

Handicapping yourself with poor equipment just makes it so frustrating.

Again sorry for the long post but having just bought a ZWO 185mc and plonked on a tripod set exposure for 20 sec,no pause and shot 400 frames in one continuous sequence with absolutely no issues or even heating up of the chip produced a time lapse of over 6 mins with no problems whatsoever. That encourages you to want to achieve more and develop your skills.

Right done for now..

:)

Gareth.

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JamesF

JamesF

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The next image dosent even come with the drivers on the install disc. You have to find the Phillips spc90000000000000 driver and install that! I'm sorry but I have just paid a £100 plus for a camera that you can't even be bothered to write your own drivers for.

I may be wrong, but I think that's the old Neximage.  I believe all the current range of Neximage cameras (Neximage SSI, Neximage 5, Neximage Burst)  are Imagine Source models in a different case.

James

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Scorpius

Scorpius

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+ 1 for any of the ZWO range,

Visit the web site they seem to have something in every price range. Although the 034 looks a bit limited.

As someone who has a "few" web cams,sony ccd cams and a nexstar 5 sitting in a drawer I have

Learnt the hard way. Cheap isn't always the cheapest aside from the frustration of not achieving an image even close to what you are observing the mucking about adapting or trying to find the right drivers is such a waste of time. The next image dosent even come with the drivers on the install disc. You have to find the Phillips spc90000000000000 driver and install that! I'm sorry but I have just paid a £100 plus for a camera that you can't even be bothered to write your own drivers for.

Sorry for the rant but I feel imaging is a hard enough hobby to learn in the first place and having substandard equipment can just put people off what is a fantastic hobby.

So my advice is to buy the best you can afford, colour for ease of use, and then take those skills and enjoy the fruits of your labours.

Yes I aspire to reach Ollys stunning images but realise it takes years to reach that level of ability and no small amount of investment

Handicapping yourself with poor equipment just makes it so frustrating.

Again sorry for the long post but having just bought a ZWO 185mc and plonked on a tripod set exposure for 20 sec,no pause and shot 400 frames in one continuous sequence with absolutely no issues or even heating up of the chip produced a time lapse of over 6 mins with no problems whatsoever. That encourages you to want to achieve more and develop your skills.

Right done for now..

:)

Gareth.

Hmmm...  Believe I'm going to try and get one of these ZWO cameras when the budget allows because they sound pretty awesome to me... :)

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Scorpius

Scorpius

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I may be wrong, but I think that's the old Neximage.  I believe all the current range of Neximage cameras (Neximage SSI, Neximage 5, Neximage Burst)  are Imagine Source models in a different case.

James

James, I believe you are correct once again...  :grin:

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