In praise of the old Nag

[Moonshane]

Cheers Jeremy

I thought my eyes were going!

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

I compared Olly's 13mm Ethos to my 12T4 Nagler (under mediocre seeing conditions), and did not find the ethos a clear winner. Yes the FOV is wider, but the eye relief is clearly shorter, making it hard for me to see the entire FOV anyway. I can quite understand people going for Naglers. Great workhorses, and I much prefer working with multiple focal length to a single EP with the magnification of a short one and FOV of the longest. I find that changing exit pupil to optimize the visibility of a DSO is more important than how it is framed.

[rl]

I sold my 21 ethos for financial reasons a few years ago. I then went through a succession of eyepieces later on trying to find a cheap replacement, including the 20mm ES 100, 25mm ES 100, 20mm mk2 Nagler (secondhand £130). I ended up keeping the Nagler..its contrast seemed a bit better which for me offset the loss of field. Not quite as good as the 21E was, but not far behind. A true classic.

I also use my MK1 Naglers a lot...the much maligned 4.8mm is still very good in fast scopes over the whole field and my 11mm smoothside is still excellent 28 years after I bought it.

RL

[Dude_with_the_tube]

I compared Olly's 13mm Ethos to my 12T4 Nagler (under mediocre seeing conditions), and did not find the ethos a clear winner. Yes the FOV is wider, but the eye relief is clearly shorter, making it hard for me to see the entire FOV anyway. I can quite understand people going for Naglers. Great workhorses, and I much prefer working with multiple focal length to a single EP with the magnification of a short one and FOV of the longest. I find that changing exit pupil to optimize the visibility of a DSO is more important than how it is framed.

thats a bit of a different televues you compared Michael(talking about eye relief). Ethos has 15mm ER,where T4 naglers where made for glass wearers and had 20mm ER,no wonder you found T4 more easier on the eye.Actually the current T6 13mm nagler has only 12mm ER as such it is even shorter ER then Ethos.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

thats a bit of a different televues you compared Michael(talking about eye relief). Ethos has 15mm ER,where T4 naglers where made for glass wearers and had 20mm ER,no wonder you found T4 more easier on the eye.Actually the current T6 13mm nagler has only 12mm ER as such it is even shorter ER then Ethos.

The T4s do not have 20mm ER across the board like Radian or Delos designs. The 22T4 has 19mm, but the 17T4 and the 12T4 both 17mm (with the 12T4 a touch tighter than the 17T4 in my experience). The Ethos 13mm at 15mm is borderline for me. I find 16mm works (and even the 15.6mm of the MaxVision 20mm 68 deg), but 15mm is just a bit short

[swamp thing]

I compared Olly's 13mm Ethos to my 12T4 Nagler (under mediocre seeing conditions), and did not find the ethos a clear winner. Y

Lost track of how many times I've made this comparison myself Michael. I still have my 12T4

The 13mm Ethos is not on my wish list. A case of nice but no thanks I don't feel the need for the field at this focal length. The nagler is wide and certainly sharp enough for me. 

[John]

I moved from the 13mm T6 Nagler to the 13mm Ethos. More of a difference there in terms of immersiveness I found. Huge size and cost difference though

Oddly, about the same time I moved from the T4 22mm Nagler to the T5 20mm Nagler.

Comparing the Pentax XW's to Naglers was the catalyst that prompted me to ultimately be disloyal to them.

Like all these comparisons at this level we are talking about very small "differences" rather than better or worse and personal preferences are probably stronger motivations than any actual performance differences.

[Moonshane]

Managed to secure a mint 9mm t1.. Looking forward to using it.

[Dude_with_the_tube]

grats Shane T1 nagler collection is slowly growing.Whats the next one? T1 11mm? its quite rare but has been highly regarded.

[Moonshane]

LOL

depends what comes up - running out of money now.

I will certainly eventually get a 4.8mm and yes, possibly the 11mm if one ever comes up but I do have a 12mm T2 already and 11mm plossl so maybe not.

despite what most would consider too much stuff I still want more.

[Dude_with_the_tube]

there is never too much of the GOOD stuff

i had 21 eye pieces in my goodie box and added another 9 so now its 31 in total.Might ditch one to make it a round figure of 30

[John]

there is never too much of the GOOD stuff

i had 21 eye pieces in my goodie box and added another 9 so now its 31 in total.Might ditch one to make it a round figure of 30

Or add a further 9 to get to 40 ?

[great_bear]

Like all these comparisons at this level we are talking about very small "differences" rather than better or worse and personal preferences are probably stronger motivations than any actual performance differences.

- at this level though it's not about performance but usability*

Tele Vue really nailed this with Delos - creating a consistent customer experience across the range, whilst keeping performance as high as reasonably possible.

* Declared interest - I am by trade a Customer Experience Consultant, so my comments might in some respects be considered a foregone conclusion  

[Dude_with_the_tube]

Or add a further 9 to get to 40 ?

ohh you never know John

[Bobby Glasser]

With my 70mm F/6.8 TeleVue Ranger, I keep a trio of "old" Naglers (all of which are super compact, lightweight, parfocal, immersive, comfortable (yes, even the 4.8mm NT1 smoothie!), super contrasty, and tack sharp to the very edge of the 82 AFOV)!  

4.8mm original (Type 1) "smoothie":  100x / 0.79 degree TFOV / 0.71mm exit pupil 

7mm Type 1 (later edition with the rubber barrel grip and eye cup):  68.6x / 1.1 degree TFOV / 1.0mm exit pupil

and the (now discontinued) 11mm Type 6:   43.6x / 1.8 degree TFOV / 1.6mm exit pupil 

*For my "finder" eyepiece with the Ranger, I use a 24mm Panoptic:  20x / 3.2 degree TFOV 3.5mm exit pupil 

These comprise full extent of my eyepiece "collection" and are ALL I could ever want and/or need!

PEACE, 

Bobby G. in Kalamazoo, MI, USA 

 

Edited November 28, 2021 by Bobby Glasser
Correction of exit pupil with 24 Pan.

[Ags]

I am proud to say I have the complete set of Type 3s!

🤣

[Oldfort]

9 minutes ago, Ags said:

I am proud to say I have the complete set of Type 3s!

🤣

And I'm just one short of the full set of Apollos.

[JamesF]

19 minutes ago, Oldfort said:

I'm just one short of the full set of Apollos.

That so sounds like a euphemism.  Like "one sandwich short of a picnic" or "one can short of a six-pack"

James

[Oldfort]

21 minutes ago, JamesF said:

That so sounds like a euphemism.  Like "one sandwich short of a picnic" or "one can short of a six-pack"

James

Yes, I think I've lost my plossls.

[F15Rules]

1 hour ago, Bobby Glasser said:

These comprise full extent of my eyepiece "collection" and are ALL I could ever want and/or need!

I think it's very refreshing to read of someone who is settled on, and comfortable with, just 3 or 4 eyepieces.

When I think about it, I probably use about 3 of mine (of a modest total of 6) for probably 2/3 of my observing.

I've gone through dozens and dozens of eps in my time, and have probably wasted so much potential quality observing time over the years, just searching for that "Holy Grail" set to cover all eventualities..but not any more.

I have a couple of great scopes, not bad observing conditions with Bortle 4 skies, and slowly deteriorating aging eyes.

Life is too short for me to waste any more of it chasing eyepiece  Nirvana..I'm now just trying to make more of what I do have, than fretting about what I don't!

I salute you and your choice, Bobby👍

Dave

Edited November 19, 2021 by F15Rules

[Mr Spock]

A very nice collection of classics 👍

[John]

13 minutes ago, F15Rules said:

Life is too short for me to waste any more of it chasing eyepiece  Nirvana..I'm now just trying to make more of what I do have, than fretting about what I don't !

 

 

Very well put Dave - I feel just the same now

[Ags]

I do wonder why I have so many eyepieces, when my modus operandi is to pick one for the evening.

[RT65CB-SWL]

My TeleVue 13mm collection shown below...

left: Plossl... centre: Nagler Type 1... right: Nagler Type 6.

 

I also have the following TeleVue e/p's [not shown]...

• 15mm Plossl
• 8mm Plossl
• 6mm Radian
• 3-6mm Nagler zoom
• 1.8x 1.25" Barlow

[callisto]

I have eyepieces which some people don't like but I do and vice versa 🤔