Total Newbie from Manchester ;-)

[LAMMY]

Hi everyone great forum you have here! I am totally new to this game so go easy on me please!

Im desperate to purchase my first telescope and spent the past 2 days stuck to my laptop screen trying to learn and take in as much as i can then i stumbled across this place so i thought why not give it a GO!

Got many many questions for you guys so looking forward to try and learn as much from you all as i can.

Anyway thanks for having me and looking forward to speaking to you all soon.

[soundwave]

Welcome Lammy! 

I also bought my first telescope not too long ago, and the SGL forums were already a HUGE help for me, so I'm sure you'll have a similar experience!

All the best!

[LAMMY]

Thanks for the greeting soundwave! ive just been browsing through the forums here and wow do these guys know there stuff!

[Mr Spock]

Hi Lammy, welcome to SGL

[LAMMY]

Why thank you Mr Spock Live Long and Prosper my friend

[Schorhr]

Hello Lammy,

welcome to the forum!

It's a good idea to check here before buying a telescope, lots to learn, and (unfortunately) lots of horrible telescope sets out there.

Clear skies!

[LAMMY]

Thanks Schorhr I'm torn between two scopes at the minute driving me crazy! Will let the guys on here sway me tho (once I find the right section to post in lol) thanks again for the greeting!

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[Schorhr]

Hi,

which ones, and what do you want to see? :-)

Good luck!

[LAMMY]

I'm after viewing planets but would love something of a all rounder so I'm not just stuck in one bracket. The two I'm looking at are the Skywatcher Explorer 130p (EQ-2) and Skywatcher Startravel 80 (EQ1) I also have a Nikon D5100 DLSR so would absolutely love to try my hand at a bit of Astrophotography. I haven't got the greatest of budgets £200 at a serious push is what I can afford at the moment unfortunately but every time I look at firstlightoptics site there seems to be something else that takes my eye lol my head is a bit pickled with it all to be honest! Any help tho would be really really appreciated thanks!!

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[Solar_observer]

Welcome lammy,one fellow manc to another. Although I live in skelmersdale now.

You have made the correct choice joining this forum. Members are knowledgeable and VERY keen to help. It's helped me loads .....But not helped my wallet

Good luck lammy :-)

[Schorhr]

Hello again,

here's my two cents on those sets:

Startravel 80

the 80/400 is a nice travel telescope but not big enough for deep sky

and the short focal length of the achromatic refractor limits the magnification for planets due to achromatic aberration (color fringe). Nice wide field telescope for backpacking, but not an allrounder starter scope.

The eq1 mount is relatively weak, it probably won't handle the dslr well.

For a bit more you could get a telescope that shows a lot more...

Explorer 130p

The 130/650mm reflector telescopes are not bad at all, I have the Heritage 130p - a small, portable dobsonian (simple, but stable wooden rockerbox mount) telescope.

Those 130/650 are not perfect for high magnification (planets) due to varying mirror quality, they do show quite a lot though for their low price (a bit more then 4", http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/196278-what-can-i-expect-to-see/).

For spiral structures of galaxies, you should consider 8" though (comparing 6-12", http://clarkvision.com/visastro/m51-apert/ - under dark sky, and long observation, at first glimpse they will not look anything like that )

... but keep in mind it should be portable if you can't at least see the milky way from your location, else even bright deepsky objects will either be invisible or relatively dull ( http://www.perezmedia.net/beltofvenus/archives/001459.html ).

A 8" telescope will fit on almost any back seat or if necessary a bike hanger, for pedestrians the Heritage 130p is the largest telescope in that price range that you can get in a backpack.

Planets can be viewed with light pollution, but are not visible all the time.

The eq2 mount of the 130p isn't exactly stable.

Here I am bumping against the Heritage on a Astro3 mount (a tad more stable then the eq2)

http://www.ringohr.de/tmp6/Astro3h130p450p10xLiveViewHit.gif

That does not look to bad but at night, that sucks.

Visually it is tolerable, but I favor the Heritage 130p dobsonian mount - plus I got a tracking mount after a while, and the flextube mechanism allows getting into focus...

...but neither heritage nor 130p are perfect for serious imaging, the heritage is really not made for it, but it is possible.

With the explorer 130p, you will most likely need a 2x barlow (it extends the focal length) to reach focus with an DSLR and to get the planets to show large enough, making it even more shaky (due to magnification and balance).

Imaging

Astro photography is a lot different to daytime imaging. Stable mounts, tracking, guiding, field rotation, minutes and minutes of exposure, stacking hundreds of frames with software... A decent astro photography set can cost thousands.

It is recommended to start visual, and with a limited budget one telescope for both visual and imaging typically results in a foul compromise. Imaging requires a sturdy tracking mount, long exposures will reveal more detail. For visual, a large telescope is more important then tracking, good maps and a sturdy mount are enough.

You do not need a telescope to take stunning deep sky images, see

http://www.j-baechli.ch/astrofotografie/Controller?action=GALLERY

All done with camera lens only, depending on the image 18-300mm.

With those focal lengths, larger nebulae and open star clusters look beautiful, and the tracking does not have to be as precise as with longer focal lengths. You can either build a barn door mount (http://www.astropix.com/BGDA/SAMPLE2/SAMPLE2.HTM , http://education.jlab.org/tracker/) or just use the camera on an equatorial mount or simple altAz tracking mount (for shorter exposures due to field rotation, http://www.astronomyasylum.com/telescopemountstutorial.html )

Mount

You will soon discover that most sets are provided with a weak mount/tripod in order to offer a low price.

A good mount can cost as much as the telescope itself.... or considerably more.

Also they usually bundle shorter tubes with the weak mounts to get away with it, and many short telescopes have downsides (chromatic aberration with refractors, coma and the need for better eyepieces when it comes to reflectors, or even low quality bird-jones reflector designs with a corrector lens that makes them hard to collimate).

This is why

Dobsonians

on their simple but sturdy wooden rockerbox mount are so popular. Most of your money goes into the telescope.

A 8" Dobsonian for 269£ will show you spiral structures of galaxies, while a 90mm telescope on Neq3 without motor or Nexstar SLT with motor (but AltAz->Field rotation when doing long exposures, no problem for planets) can cost even more then the 8 inch dobsonian but show much less.

Can you image on a dobsonian?

Yes, but only moon and planets, tracking manual can be tricky. I've done it, and even with an equatorial platform you can build or buy to put under the rockerbox, it is tricky and can be anointing to get objects into view.

http://www.robsastrophotography.co.uk/pages/Saturnsystem.html http://android-artisan.blogspot.de/2011/09/more-improved-photos-of-jupiter.html

Alternatives in your price range

....check used telescopes :-)

-Imaging on a barndoor tracking mount

-A 130pds telescope on NEQ3 would be much better (sturdy, designed for imaging), but costs more.

-A Heritage 130p is a small telescope that has some downsides but a good, portable starter telescope that's affordable... Not for imaging except moon and planet snapshots.

-A 6" or better yet 8" dobsonian would show a lot more, but those are not suited for imaging except moon and planet snapshots.

-A nexstar slt with small telescope, refurbished around 180-250£, suited for planet imaging and deepsky exposures up to half a minute.

-A Maksutov 90 or 102mm, can double as a 1300-1500mm tele lens and you can use a sturdy camera tripod or smaller eq mount

I know this all probably just adds to the confusion and makes a decision even more difficult.

For beginners most sets offered look professional, and they underestimate how annoying weak mounts and bad eyepieces can be.

Especially under 150£ there are a lot of sets that should not be sold and avoided at all cost :-)

[michigander]

Welcome to SGL, Lammy!

Dana

[OscarTheGrouch]

Welcome to the forum. 

I've only just bought my new scope too and I'm very happy with it.  The tripod is sturdy enough and the mount is really solid, but the lenses you get with the set aren't fantastic (this was something I new about so picked up some extras).  It does have some shortcomings - the flexible connectors and adjusters are pretty weak but easily replaced, the finder scope isn't great but it does the job and it's not all that portable.  Perhaps you could look up a local club and see if there's anyone selling some kit!

[Dave_D]

Take a trip to Opticstar in Sale, you'll be able to see a range of scopes 'in the flesh'. The guys there are very helpful and will put you on the right path for your budget

[D4N]

I started on a 130P eq2, the scope itself has been fine for me, collimation rarely needs adjusting (which can be a pain if your not used to it) but the mount is a bit shakey. The setting circles and latitude scale appear to be applied randomly to the mount and have no bearing on how it's actually pointing. However if you ignore that it is possible to polar align well enough to follow objects using just the RA control.

As mentioned already a DSLR won't come to prime focus unless you either modify the scope or use a barlow lens. A webcam will come to focus easily though and can give good solar system images. The focuser isn't really sturdy enough to hold a DSLR, it has no focus lock but this can be modified quite easily

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[swag72]

Hi and welcome to SGL - Glad that you found us and decided to join before buying a scope!!! You get some serious advise on here. I can't help with any visual stuff as I stick purely to imaging I'm afraid. But it's good to have you on board.

Look forward to seeing you around

[Charon]

Welcome aboard.

[PeterCPC]

Hi and welcome SGL Lammy.

Peter

[Wolfgangwand]

Hi & Welcome from me too

[laudropb]

Hi and welcome to the SGL

[LAMMY]

Wow Thank you very much for all your information Schorhr i really appreciate it! I have read over all your information and i think i kind of grasp most of it lol like i say I'm totally new to all this! So i have been looking at Dobsonians now (knew you would all change my mind lol) and quite fancy the Skywatcher Skyliner 150P Dobsonian so would love to know what you guys think?. I will not be travelling much with my telescope it will be mainly for the back garden. The response from here has been awesome thanks again for all your help and greetings!

   

[carastro]

A Dobsonian is a great scope for visual but you need to learn your way around the sky, and this is not a bad thing.  However if you want to get into astrophotography with your DSLR you will need something completely different.  

I'd start with the Dob and then think again when you want to start photography and have a bit more money to spare as AP is not cheap.  

Welcome to SGL.

Carole 

[Ulaw]

+1 for the Dob. Great scope, so easy to use and you'll get some great views from it. 

Welcome to the forum

Paul

[Moonshane]

welcome to the forum! I'd forget about imaging for now as the mount would take up most if not all your scope budget.

I'd stick to visual for now if I were you. For about £150, I'd recommend an AZ4 mount and a 130mm or 150mm reflector/newtonian. this would be used prices though and provide an excellent start in astronomy. add in a red dot finder of some kind and a good star map and you'll be on your way.

[Schorhr]

Hello Lammy,

a 6" is a great telescope.

It will perform better with cheap eyepieces then the 130/650 due to it's aperture Ratio (at f/5 the outer field will Not be sharp).

The 6" will be great for planets, and a dobsonian is moved pretty easily, so even tracking them manually at 200x and Up is No issue (but not everyone likes it). A few wide angle eyepieces help with that (20-27£, http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/wide-angle-eyepiece-1-25inches-66-degree-F-6mm-/140717462903 ) should be added sooner or later.

One around 200x (as seeing often does not allow more) for planets and small deep sky objects.

One for deep sky with 2-3mm exit pupil for good contrast ( https://www.astronomics.com/eyepiece-exit-pupils_t.aspx ) so with a f/8 aperture ratio 16-24mm (so for starters, the supplied 25mm kit eyepiece will be okey-ish)

And one for low magnification, as it makes finding things easier, plus larger objects such as the andromeda galaxy, Pleiades and ngc7000 won't fit into the view. A 40mm Erfle eyepiece for around 60£ could be one solution, but no rush.

Eyepieces are a story of their own, you can easily spend more for goof eyepieces then for the telescope. For starters, use what is provided, though the 6mm would be a good idea in order to get the most out of planetary observations. The mentioned 6mm wide angle eyepiece can even be modified to magnify a bit higher, so it is a great starter eyepiece.

IF deep-sky is your main target - and it will be, once the planets are not observable well - the 6" can show you the whole Messier catalog under a dark sky, and much more beyond that.

Can you see the milky way from your location?

If not, objects other then planets are harder to find and sometimes not visible at all. The largest telescope can't completely compensate light pollution.

For deepsky, you should consider getting a (used) 8", as the structure of spiral galaxies and such will show, while a 6" under mediocre conditions will probably not. (see link from clarkvision)

Also keep in mind those larger telescopes are huge, the shop pictures do not show that well. http://www.astronomer.zoomshare.com/album/Skywatcher%208%22%20Dobsonian,%20Feb%202011/images/e132fde9f3e2471dc75c0c7308e34fc4_12974792440/:album

As for imaging, if you like to build stuff, how about a barndoor or eq platform? :-)

Plus you could allways get a small imaging set up later or take images of the moon through the dobsonian.