M81 and M82 Can't seem to find them! Scope too small?

[timetraveler3]

Hello All,

I am using a 114mm Celestron reflector. I have been unable to find M81 and M82. I know right where to look but after many attempts I cannot see anything.

My skies are medium dark,  so I think I should be okay there. So is my scope to small to see these?  I have a 8x to 24x zoom and of course start at 24 to find things. Any advice?

Gary

[Kirscovitch]

With my 130 I had to have pretty dark skies to find them. It is a little easier with my 150 but still can be a struggle with LP. If it's more than a half moon I don't even try.

[jetstream]

In 19.8 mag skies(moderately dark) and poor dark adaptation my 90mm refractor showed M81 & M82 surprisingly well,with my 12.5mm ortho.As kirscovitch says the moon really hurts galaxy viewing.How are you trying to find them?and have you checked the faintest stars visible(in magnitudes) to give an idea of your sky darkness?They can be hard to find for sure.

[NGC 1502]

Hello All,

I am using a 114mm Celestron reflector. I have been unable to find M81 and M82. I know right where to look but after many attempts I cannot see anything.

My skies are medium dark,  so I think I should be okay there. So is my scope to small to see these?  I have a 8x to 24x zoom and of course start at 24 to find things. Any advice?

Gary

Hi Gary, sounds like you are doing the right things, decent sky, hunting at your lowest power / widest field.

Your 8 - 24 zoom is a very handy eyepiece, but at the 24mm setting will have a restricted field.  

A regular 32mm eyepiece will show more sky area, so would up your chances ( sorry, more money I know ).  With your 1.25" focuser, a 32mm Plossl will give the widest field possible.

I used to struggle to find deep sky stuff, but trust me, it does get easier with practice : -

Example - from my light polluted back yard years ago, I thought M51 was tough with the 6" Dob I had, but now,  if I wait for a a moonless transparent sky, it's not too hard with my 70mm refractor, and my light pollution has certainly not got any better.

Keep at it, you will succeed, Ed.

[Tiki]

I find that even a little bit of skyglow makes most galaxies very difficult. I therefore have to be patient at home and wait for my targets to move into a favourable part of the sky. If for example you were able to observe M63 (small but reasonably bright) when it was somewhere near the zenith then M81/2 would be even more obvious unless LP is a factor. Your eyes need to be well dark-adapted too, some people use hoods etc. if there is too much stray light around.

As Ed says, keep at it you will succeed.

[dick_dangerous]

I can observe M81 and M82 from my front step, under a sodium lamp, with a 3'' refractor, although observe is rather a strong word. From the park they're easy objects, but I find them quite tricky to locate.

DD

[swamp thing]

These should be visible with moderate LP. They are visible (but small) through my 8x50 finder scope from average skies.

Check the alignment of your finder scope, I know some of those small celestron scopes have woeful finders.

[AndyWB]

Yeah, I see them in my 130mm with bad light pollution, and it's not too hard. Avoid the full moon though - that's worse than the town! And they are fiddly to find if you can't really see many stars.

I wonder if the problem is this...

  I have a 8x to 24x zoom and of course start at 24 to find things. Any advice?

The zoom eyepiece is probably actually 8-24mm in focal length, and rather counter intuitively 8mm is the highest magnification. Is it possible that you were trying to find them at a higher magnification by accident?

I would recommend having a lower power eyepiece than that too. I'm not sure what the field of view is with your zoom eyepiece at 24mm. I use a 30mm Vixen NPL which gives a field of view of about 2 degrees. It's my most used eyepiece.

[brantuk]

The zoom is a nice eyepiece for closing in on bright objects like planets. But for galaxies you really want low power wide angle views. The zoom closes to 50 degrees fov at 24mm so not really meant for large, faint, distant, objects. As mentioned - something around 28mm-35mm giving 50x or 60x magnification will suite. You also need a good dark observing site, moonless night, and full dark adaption for your best chances of finding them.

They can be elusive to find - use Uma and extend a line from Phad through Dubhe for the same distance they are apart. Pan a smidgeon to the left and there they are. You may only see one of them at first and the other is bound to be on the edge of the fov, or just outside it. So a small adjustment to get them both in the same fov will be required. Hth

[Scott]

It took me weeks to first find M81/82 for the first time, and that was in a 200mm. It now takes very little time in a 130p. My point is, for me, it was a hard target first time round but once found you "learn" where to look. I'm sure you'll find it and once you do, the second time will be easier and the third easier still.

keep looking.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

I can spot them from my suburban garden with binoculars (10x50 and 15x70). In the past I have even seen them with 8x40s, so your aperture is big enough. I do find the star hop with EQ mounts can be awkward, this close to the celestial pole. If your scope is EQ-mounted, that can contribute to the difficulty. Once you have found them, they are not difficult targets to spot.

[Owmuchonomy]

As auspom says a bit of persistence and things get much easier to find once you 'learn' the sky region.  I tend to be lazy now and use GoTo but I did learn using a MAK150 which isn't the easiest thing to star hop with!  The seeing and dark sky qualities are still the biggest factors for me.  My cycling buddies are getting interested in my hobby and since we cycle every Thursday evening we often stop and I'll point out naked eye subjects.  To do this means waiting a good 10 minutes and then under a good dark sky.  Validation of what pops out for my mates shows you it can be done.  They can pick out M31, Perseus double cluster etc with their eyes now.  Any hint of LP though and we are scuppered. I don't believe your scope 'size' is the issue as M82 appears 'relatively' bright to me for a galaxy due to its smaller area and intrinsic brightness.  Good luck.

[timetraveler3]

Thanks, I will keep on looking. A 32mm eyepiece sounds like a good idea. My red dot  finder although a cheap stock piece actually works pretty well. I have gotten good at using it. I may drive out to darker skies some night and see what that does.  I hope to buy a 10 inch dob this summer but cash flow will not allow that at the moment.  Unfortunately things like broken washing machines come first................................

[dick_dangerous]

It took me a while to pluck up the courage to go looking for them with the ST80 - the first time I managed it was from the park, out from the glare of the lights. There's a right-angled triangle of stars very close to them - if you follow the shortest side it points towards two more reasonably bright stars. M81 and M82 are somewhere off the end of them. That's now how I always find them - I should probably try to cobble together a finder chart to share this knowledge...

Once I'd found them in the park I had a go from the front step and was surprised that they actually punch through the heavy light pollution, so definitely don't give up hope yet!

DD

[Pete Presland]

i have seen them in my 15x70's once you find them you will wonder how you missed them to begin with.

[tombola]

Took me a few attempts. Like you I knew roughly where to look but just couldn't find them. I have an 8 inch dobsonian so just basically kept scanning back and forth in the area then eventually...presto!!! There they were.

Just need to be patient and keep at it. It's difficult sometimes though as you want to see everything at once!

[ronin]

I have found to my cost there is a slight difference between knowing where to look and actually getting things in the scope. Have a fair idea where things are, but unless I can see them either by eyes or in something like binoculars then pointing a scope at them is often fruitless.

You may find that even marginally darker skies makes a big difference.

[timetraveler3]

I finally found them! I took a drive the other night about twenty five miles east to darker skies. Set up in a farmers field off a country road with no cars. After looking at a bunch of other things I decided to give them a try again. After awhile of still not finding them I was slowly scanning the area and suddenly there they were!  Faint fuzzies for sure in this scope but I was so excited to finally see them.  I think the darker sky made all the difference.

I have not yet tried to find them again back home but will soon. On to other fuzzies!

Gary

[cotterless45]

Hurrah ! Once you know where they are, it's a quick check on sky quality. M82 is brighter and denser and the pair look wonderful in the fov. Always useful for showing others what we chase in

Clear skies !

Nick.

[Sandraj]

Well done Gary, good to hear you bagged them 

[NGC 1502]

 from Ed.

[Stu]

Nice one Gary.

In case you have problems again, have a look at post #9 in this thread and it describes the star hop I've been using for years, always works :-)

http://stargazerslounge.com/index.php?/topic/200829-M81-and-M82

Cheers,

Stu

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