Considerations for building own shed observatory

[bradfrankshaw]

Hi everyone. I'm on the cusp of building my own observatory using a windowless shed. I'm hoping to insulate it from the cold, sit in it and either study images on a pc, read books, observe via remote using a philips toucam 2 pro plugged into a excellent 2nd hand ex-Horsham AS Helios Explorer 150, which I'm hoping to get at the end of june or just flick through old copies of Astronomy Now.

My neighbour is putting up a brand new 6ft fence (aligned north south) next to the site I intend to use. The proposed site also has a concrete base and path from an old shed that used to exist there. It's about 6ft by 4ft.

The view south is fairly obstructed by ours and neighbours house but luckily garden is dark.

I am terrified of spiders. There said it. The ob cannot become a haven for our eight legged friends. Also I have to consider damp proofing and security. Luckily new fence gives us the opportunity to install one or two new side gates (and maybe have a lean to).

Does this sound feasible? Any pointers would be great Any additional questions please ask away.

Thanks

Frank

[dmahon]

You might well insulate it, but once you roll the roof off all the heat will escape pretty quickly! OK - it will diminish the wind chill. You might want to consider splitting the shed so you have a "warm room". Alternatively, remote control the PC from one inside the house so you can read books and study images in much warmer surroundings (without any spiders).

I'd extend the base to at least 6'x6' and probably nearer 8'x8'. You might be better off building your observatory from scratch - once you take the roof off a shed, it becomes a bit wobbly. You'll spend a while, and a bit of money, strengthening it.

Preferably you want good views all around, but you want at least a decent view E-S or S-W.

[Bizibilder]

Certainly go ahead and build one - there are several threads in the DIY section. Spiders? In my mown obsy (and I don't mind spiders at all) I vacuum (how many "u"'s in empty space??) clean it about four times a year, mainly to get rid of any webs they have made.

[bradfrankshaw]

Thanks for replies. I had considered an indoors setup but I have three daughters and they and my wife are hooked on Rubbish tv a la I'm a celeb, eastendes, strictly come dancing etc <shiver>. I want to be outside lol.

Is it possible to run an ob without taking the roof off / roll off? Obviously that would mean taking the scope out everytime and aligning (but does get over the loss of heat at night problem).

As for bugs, is it possible to seal the walls up with something that acts like bathroom sealant? A hoover up does sound good. I read about spiders are just after bugs - keep them out and the 8 legged freaks look elsewhere.

[majapala]

I have three daughters and they and my wife are hooked on Rubbish tv a la I'm a celeb, eastendes, strictly come dancing etc <shiver>.

You have my most deepest sympathies! I have a similar problem.

[r3i]

Is it possible to run an ob without taking the roof off / roll off? Obviously that would mean taking the scope out everytime and aligning (but does get over the loss of heat at night problem).

As for bugs, is it possible to seal the walls up with something that acts like bathroom sealant? A hoover up does sound good. I read about spiders are just after bugs - keep them out and the 8 legged freaks look elsewhere.

Yes it's possible but what you might as well go for in that scenario is a standard shed or summer house whose walls you could then insulate.

As already mentioned, a common solution adopted by many of us, particularly imagers, is a split configuration, i.e. a section that opens up to view the heavens and an enclosed area, i.e. the 'warm room' (which in winter is better described as a 'less-cold room').

However if you have a serious dislike of spiders, you're going to have problems as I would think it will be impossible to avoid them in any outdoor scenario that you end up with. They manage to get everywhere regardless of how many countermeasures you employ. See my recent post for an example: http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/186271-a-squatter-in-my-scope/

[laser_jock99]

Thanks for replies. I had considered an indoors setup but I have three daughters and they and my wife are hooked on Rubbish tv a la I'm a celeb, eastendes, strictly come dancing etc <shiver>. I want to be outside lol.

Sounds like you need a 'man shed'- good excuse to build an obsy.

[dmahon]

Is it possible to run an ob without taking the roof off / roll off? Obviously that would mean taking the scope out everytime and aligning (but does get over the loss of heat at night problem).

Isn't that a shed rather than an observatory?

[fondofchips]

If you don't want to take all the roof off this might fit the bill - http://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/propview.php?view=70563

Bargain if it's close to you.

[malc-c]

There are loads of threads covering different builds in the DIY Observatory section. Two or three are at the development stage, some in the stages of laying foundations etc. It's well worth sitting down with a big mug of coffee and read through them as most of your questions have already been covered in these threads.

The main advantages or goals of an observatory is to have a permanent set up so you don't have to go through the alignment process each session etc. Having to remove the scope from the "observatory" as suggested is in effect just storing the scope in a shed.

To be honest, 6' x 4' is not going to give you enough room to operate the scope and sit there reading Astronomy Now whilst the scope is imaging etc. Ideally you need a square area, say 6' x 6' as a minimum for the scope, and a 6' x 8' would give you the option to comfortably sit at a small work surface area to act as a desk etc. The draw back is whilst you are still sheltered from the wind, it's not worth insulating the building for two reasons. 1) it creates a temperature difference between the outside and the room, so you would still need to allow the scope to cool once the room is opened. 2) any warmth generated would soon disappear once the roof was rolled back. This is why those of us with the space opt to build a separate warm room and scope room, often with a door between them so any warmth generated by the insulated warm room remains in the warm room rather than escaping.

You also need to think about how the roof would roll off. Two options seem to be the norm, one where the roof rolls on to supported rails at one end of the building, the other is where the roof rolls over the warm room. Obviously if you have a 8' x 6' shed, then you actually need an area of 16' x 6' so that you can support the roof when rolled off.

Lastly, as has been pointed out before, commercial sheds are designed such that they don't need to be that sturdy, and thus the roof forms the key part of holding the structure rigid. As soon as you modify that shed so the roof can be rolled you'll loose a lot of that rigidity, and thus you need to then build a bracing frame structure in the shed and roof to stop the thing collapsing. There is strong debate as to the costs between scratch building and modifying an off the shelf shed, and the pros' and cons' for each case.

My circumstances allowed me to build an observatory with a scope room of 1.9m x 2.2m, with a warm room / office of similar size. This was a scratch build of my own design, built around normal building practices (eg framework on 16" centres), it has stood for two years through heavy snow and hot summer days where the temperature inside the scope room reached 40c. The cost of materials was around £1800 and that included the bricks for the dwarf wall, concrete foundations and electrics. The nearest commercial observatory of similar specifications would of cost me double that, and I would still of needed to lay a base and have the electrics installed.

[RogerTheDodger]

I don't have the room for an obsy (yet) but I do have an astro shed to keep my gear in and a permanent pier about 5 feet away - I just drop the mount on the pier, add telescope and wire it up then retreat back into the shed to keep warm whilst I'm imaging.

[bradfrankshaw]

Thanks everyone - esp Malc C; some wise words. And yes Roger that was what I was thinking about. But having seen some of the cold/warm room combos I am sorely tempted.

The garden is having a big overhaul at the moment. The new neighbour and I have ripped out the terrible border north south hedge and it'll be replaced by a 6ft fence, allowing us some security and to put a new side gate up. I've measured out the garden, distances of the proposed location from the house, other hedge, kids trampoline etc. The site is 5ft wide 8ft long with the neighbours 5.5ft high shed next to it. The new fence will go between the two sheds.

I've been taking photos to help planning plus drawn up some diagrams. I've also taken some continous landscape pictures of the horizon and sky from various points in the garden to find obsticles to the sky.

Thanks for the pointers and patience everyone.

Daft question - do you use a pier just so that you you have a proper permanent fixed compass position?

Thanks

Frank

[laser_jock99]

do you use a pier just so that you you have a proper permanent fixed compass position?

Frank

The main purpose of well made pier is to keep the polar axis scope mount in a 'ready to use' position each time you observe. With a permanent pier, polar axis adjustments should be rarely required- unlike a mobile tripod set up where you might have to spend half a hour before each session getting the mount properly polar aligned. It was the faff of doing this that made me build my obsy. Now I can just roll back the roof and be ready for perfectly aligned imaging in minutes. It's a big time saver when clear nights are few and far between.

[Tinker1947]

Spiders are a bit a pain when your doing something and one races behind the monitor. many years ago I visited a old church/castle and it was brought to our attention that the place never had any spiders or webs amongst the beam, at the time I didn't know a piece of oak from a piece of pine, but the colour stayed in my mind, so I think it was horse chestnut which would also go along with conkers in various places around my home, the wife says they keep the siders away, and all I can say is we have none my scope room is also spider free, so maybe a door frame ect made from this timber may be the answer,

[r3i]

The main purpose of well made pier is to keep the polar axis scope mount in a 'ready to use' position each time you observe. With a permanent pier, polar axis adjustments should be rarely required- unlike a mobile tripod set up where you might have to spend half a hour before each session getting the mount properly polar aligned. It was the faff of doing this that made me build my obsy. Now I can just roll back the roof and be ready for perfectly aligned imaging in minutes. It's a big time saver when clear nights are few and far between.

Other advantages include: they tend to be more rigid than a tripod; they also take up less floor space and present less of a trip hazard than a tripod leg .

[BlueAstra]

My observatory started off as a storage shed for my astro gear. I used to wheel it all out every session. I got tired of this eventually, especially with the weather interrupting things, and decided to convert it into an observatory. This thread is my story. I did insulate it, mainly to stop condensation dripping on the gear, and recently I installed a pier. I don't really recommend sitting out all night if its imaging. I control the local PC by remote desktop from the house, which is my 'warm room'.

[laser_jock99]

Other advantages include: they tend to be more rigid than a tripod; they also take up less floor space and present less of a trip hazard than a tripod leg .

Having had a re-think the main advantage is I can now actually be 'bothered' to start an observing session in marginal conditions, whereas previously I found myself unconciously looking for excuses not to set up even on perfectly okay nights. That's the difference.

[fwm891]

Have you though of a roof-off 'shed' rather than a RoR. Open up an end wall and roll the structure away from the scope assembly and close the end wall again - you keep snug while the kit sits outside doing its job. Then when you've finished roll the shed back into place. There are a number of roll-off-shed designs in the threads. Normally means you can get away with a slightly smaller structure as you no longer need to enclose the scope and a warm room. Probably get more dew problems so watch electrics.

[Gina]

I think that's certainly worth looking at if you're limited for space (and height). I looked at that idea in my earlier designs, trying to reduce the amount of work and cost but having a fairly large clear space and a clear view to east and south I eventually went for the de-luxe full blown observatory with warm room

[malc-c]

I looked at that idea in my earlier designs, trying to reduce the amount of work and cost but having a fairly large clear space and a clear view to east and south I eventually went for the de-luxe full blown observatory with warm room

This is the thing.. each individual project will boil down to cost and available resources including space available and free time for construction. Part of the definition of my project was storage space, with an warm room that can double as an man cave if required We incorporated the observatory build into a larger project to landscape the garden and thus applied to our mortgage lender for a small home improvement loan. I took a week off work to do the bulk of the build (floor, stud work and roofs), and completed the rest over evenings and weekends. My budget was £2500 including fitting out and I came inside the budget by around £300 (if you don't include the HEQ5, ST80 and QHY5 that came up on the classifieds at the same time, which wasn't in the plan but I just had to have )

Personally I wouldn't get too hooked up on debating all the options. You are missing out on the ideal time to be building the observatory ready for the nice dark winter nights. If you can fit a nice 2.2m x 4.8m observatory with warm room in your garden without it looking out of place, and you have the budget then go for it. Personally I think you get more satisfaction scratch building to your own design then converting a couple of commercial sheds, but that's just me. My inspiration came from Wayne's build ( http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/65333-wetherview-diy-obsy-build-begins/ ) so given that I had the money in place and had the space and time I knew what I wanted and set to putting my ideas on to paper. I did have a few ideas before I settled on the correct location and design, but chose to work through any issues that arose whilst building the thing. Often having the problem in front of you helps you develop a solution quickly and simpler than doing a 3D sketch in software. It also allows you to adapt the design as more often than not you come up with a better idea of doing things as you progress if you follow my drift.

In hind sight would I of done things differently.... er no. The structure is still as functional now, two years after it was built. The roof still rolls easily, and none of the rubber wheels have flattened or deteriorated as people had suggested, and still looks as good as it did when it was first completed. Every morning I look out of the window and admire my handy work, saying to myself "I built that"

Having a working observatory does encourage you to do more observing. Knowing that you can be up and running in five minutes, and like wise park the scope and roll the roof over in the same amount of time if the clouds roll in means that you snatch those moments rather than not bothering.

[ASIGN_Baz]

This is why I built a domed observatory. The dome seems to be able to control a few elements just by it's shape alone. It get's cold when you open the slot yes, but something about the cavity within stops condensation/dew from forming. The dome keeps wind out, (not that you would normally be imaging in anything more than a light breeze anyway.) The dome keeps stray light out from street lights. I just can't imagine having any other kind of roof over my scope.

As far as spiders are concerned, I usually just pick them up in my hands and take them outside. To keep them from getting inside in the first place, I spray all around the door edges, slot edges and around the dome-ring with 6-month surface spray. I re-spray every three months and rarely will I see a spider in there. Now I have no webs, no eggs and no other insects in there. You can by barrier sprays that you can spray in the bushes and on the ground around your observatory as well. This makes it so uncomfortable for spiders, that they won't come within cooee of you.

Baz.

[bradfrankshaw]

Hi all - I took these two Panorama shots of the sky from where my proposed ob would be. Given the location of near by houses etc, can anyone see any serious viewing issues?

cheers

frank

[Ryan-y]

Clouds

[bradfrankshaw]

Teehee I was a bit worried about the view south with Orion in the winter.

[yesyes]

Are you sure those are labelled correctly? North looks different on these 2 pictures.