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Is it a rip-off or I just don't get it?

emadmoussa

By emadmoussa
in The Astro Lounge

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nightfisher

nightfisher

Posted
Posted

There is of course the element of "dont be heavy handed with the factory ones", if a bolt or screw is hard to turn, something will more likely give, i tend to be careful when making adjustments to a mount

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badgerchap

badgerchap

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Whilst the price of these may or may not be extortionate, I am fairly certain that a number of astro related products are priced rather more steeply than their quality justifies. This is certainly an expensive hobby, and the price often puts myself and others off increasing our involvement. Whilst I'm sure profits are maximised by high prices over a short period, I'm fairly sure a lot more people would go further if each individual purchase didn't nearly cause a divorce! I particularly find it incredible that guidescope rings and dovetails fetch as much as they do.

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Mr Spock

Mr Spock

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If you want a quality, bespoke product, you have to pay for it.

I've not bent a bolt yet. They seem ok to me but I suppose if you're a bit ham-fisted, or you expect turning one bolt in to lift the entire weight of your scope, then... ;)

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Earl

Earl

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Whilst the price of these may or may not be extortionate, I am fairly certain that a number of astro related products are priced rather more steeply than their quality justifies. This is certainly an expensive hobby, and the price often puts myself and others off increasing our involvement. Whilst I'm sure profits are maximised by high prices over a short period, I'm fairly sure a lot more people would go further if each individual purchase didn't nearly cause a divorce! I particularly find it incredible that guidescope rings and dovetails fetch as much as they do.

Any item which has to be engineered to a standard in small volumes (ie not 1000 + at a time) will always be a bit pricier.

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foundaplanet

foundaplanet

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If you want a quality, bespoke product, you have to pay for it.

I've not bent a bolt yet. They seem ok to me but I suppose if you're a bit ham-fisted, or you expect turning one bolt in to lift the entire weight of your scope, then... ;)

Mr. Spock you are on.

I have never bothered with the replacement bolts. It is not something I have prioritised even though I have developed a paranoia about them. However, it may well be a healthy paranoia from having read about some of the disasters people have had. I do take them out every now and then and they still roll true on a flat surface.

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foundaplanet

foundaplanet

Posted
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Whilst the price of these may or may not be extortionate, I am fairly certain that a number of astro related products are priced rather more steeply than their quality justifies. This is certainly an expensive hobby, and the price often puts myself and others off increasing our involvement. Whilst I'm sure profits are maximised by high prices over a short period, I'm fairly sure a lot more people would go further if each individual purchase didn't nearly cause a divorce! I particularly find it incredible that guidescope rings and dovetails fetch as much as they do.

I think the reason for this is simply that astronomy is a specialised hobby. It may appear to us that there are boxes of stuff being shifted all the time but the amount is nowhere near comparable with big industry. I would pretty much bet that ADM do not have dedicated machinery for each of their separate products. This will mean that every time they do a run there will be a set up time involved and they are precision products, every one of them is the same. There will also undoubtedly be ones that do not come up to scratch these costs also have to be countered for. Therefore as with any limited market a premium product will command a premium price.

Amongst all of this though it worth remembering that thanks to Asia an awful lot more people have been enabled to participate in our hobby. If we take what seems to be the most popular scope on the planet as the Skywatcher 200p at under £300, a western equivalent would be costing upwards of £800 with a 10" coming in at over a grand. No doubt there would be far less of us around if this was the case and imagine what our ep cases would be like if there was only Televue and Pentax.

:)

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badgerchap

badgerchap

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Absolutely. If it weren't for SW I'd probably have been forced to buy a Tasco or a Seben as a starter, and there's no way even now that I'd be able to afford the kit I have.

Posted via Tapatalk on an ageing iPhone so please excuse any erroneous spellings or accidental profanities!

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Bukko

Bukko

Posted
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They do look nicely made, though..

And as has already been said, this all takes time to do.

At work, I have purchased (expensive) equipment and received the recommended spares lists - with items like a fuse costing close to the price of these bolts.

1. They don't simply call it a fuse, but if you dig under the surface, that's what it is.

2. I saw it and didn't buy them.

I would not feel ripped off at the price paid, so long as they are actually a strong steel that doesn't bend or rust.

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Astro_Baby

Astro_Baby

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I'm with Ronin on this. Yes you can buy the bolts for a tenner, add in the plastic handles, tube of araldite, postage costs and a couple of hours of your time and you will find it works out expensive.

I tried the DiY route, an hour of my time at least finding the bits online, then a car drive to pick up the bolts which didnt actually fit so petrol and more time wasted. i priced this up recently and yes you would get the bits a bit cheaper if you bought them and made them yourself but not that much cheaper and you have to factor in hassle and your time. Personally I have better things to do than mess about filing bolts down and gluing bits together to save a few quid. i am a bit of a DiYer but I draw the line at something as dull as bolts.....let someone else have the aggro and I am happy to pay them.

You have to remember Astro Developments, like many people making stuff for astro are a BUSINESS...they arent a charity motivated to help you out. They have bills to pay and mouths to feed. Thats why I just bought the things in the end. £55 for a set of bolts that protect a grand of mount is not extortion. Look at the price of a plastic cover for an iPhone sometime and those are just run off on a plastic former in their thousands. Most astro add on companies are working small volume. Just be glad they are happy to do this and dont begrudge them a profit for their efforts.

As to bendy bolts, I have had a fair few mounts and all the bolts have bent with no real pressure being applied by me. You dont have to be hamfisted........bear in mind the bolts are taking the entire weight of the scope, counterweights and mount head whch coud be totalling something like 45kg. Try applying 45kg of weight to almost anything for a protracted period and see how well it holds up.

I dont doubt some people have never had a problem ....yet. i have seen a post here not so long ago from a sceptic who was obs mounted. The bent bolts didndt show up until he moved the mount.......oh dear !!! Some people might never bend them, they may have light scopes, be obs mounted or plain lucky. But sooner or later a great many of us will be in a cold, dark field with numb hands, tired and cold and its then that mistakes happen. A moment of forgetfulness can lead to a lifetime of regret.

£55 is a lot cheaper than a busted mount or having to spend time and effort to extract a bent bolt once its happened... I know I have had to do it a few times now on mounts I have repaired for people and its a gutty, time consuming job and not one that I would do if I could avoid it........not to mention a busted mount means no observing and you just know it will happen when the skies are clear...

Peace, love and use decent bolts :)

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laser_jock99

laser_jock99

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Posted

I have had 3 eq6s 2 had bendy bolts syndrome, I even managed to bend a replacmentment.... Uber Ham fisted !!!

Next time my mount is in bits I'll add an extra bit of metal in front the altitude lug. I think that's the only long term cure to this issue.

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Pig

Pig

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Posted

I dont want to alarm you Imad, but in a lot of cases "bendy" bolts are bendy for a reason.

For some applications it is better to bend the bolts than to cause functional damage to what they are supporting, in your case, probably an expensive mount.

As you are of a self confessed "clumsy/awkward" bent ( forgive the pun as you bent your other bolts ) Do not go overtightening them as £55 will become much more expensive :shocked:

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emadmoussa

emadmoussa

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I dont want to alarm you Imad, but in a lot of cases "bendy" bolts are bendy for a reason.

For some applications it is better to bend the bolts than to cause functional damage to what they are supporting, in your case, probably an expensive mount.

As you are of a self confessed "clumsy/awkward" bent ( forgive the pun as you bent your other bolts ) Do not go overtightening them as £55 will become much more expensive :shocked:

As a matter of fact, even being clumsy sometimes, I never bent my alt bolts and never had a problem with them until recently. They started getting a bit tight even though when I loosened up the opposite one to the max. Like I mentioned before I already shattered the plastic grip of one the azimuth bolts. I don't know how this happened, I'm thinking probably the handyman who was doing some maintenance around and kept walking past the mount with his heavy gear. I'm sure it was an accident anyway.

So yes, as a precautionary measure I took the plunge especially after the panic I had when my mount died on me last weekend. Only then did I feel how important it was and a bunch of upgrade bolts should help extend its life and protect it from my hands. By the way, I'm not ham-fisted... :D

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emadmoussa

emadmoussa

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I'm with Ronin on this. Yes you can buy the bolts for a tenner, add in the plastic handles, tube of araldite, postage costs and a couple of hours of your time and you will find it works out expensive.

I tried the DiY route, an hour of my time at least finding the bits online, then a car drive to pick up the bolts which didnt actually fit so petrol and more time wasted. i priced this up recently and yes you would get the bits a bit cheaper if you bought them and made them yourself but not that much cheaper and you have to factor in hassle and your time. Personally I have better things to do than mess about filing bolts down and gluing bits together to save a few quid. i am a bit of a DiYer but I draw the line at something as dull as bolts.....let someone else have the aggro and I am happy to pay them.

You have to remember Astro Developments, like many people making stuff for astro are a BUSINESS...they arent a charity motivated to help you out. They have bills to pay and mouths to feed. Thats why I just bought the things in the end. £55 for a set of bolts that protect a grand of mount is not extortion. Look at the price of a plastic cover for an iPhone sometime and those are just run off on a plastic former in their thousands. Most astro add on companies are working small volume. Just be glad they are happy to do this and dont begrudge them a profit for their efforts.

As to bendy bolts, I have had a fair few mounts and all the bolts have bent with no real pressure being applied by me. You dont have to be hamfisted........bear in mind the bolts are taking the entire weight of the scope, counterweights and mount head whch coud be totalling something like 45kg. Try applying 45kg of weight to almost anything for a protracted period and see how well it holds up.

I dont doubt some people have never had a problem ....yet. i have seen a post here not so long ago from a sceptic who was obs mounted. The bent bolts didndt show up until he moved the mount.......oh dear !!! Some people might never bend them, they may have light scopes, be obs mounted or plain lucky. But sooner or later a great many of us will be in a cold, dark field with numb hands, tired and cold and its then that mistakes happen. A moment of forgetfulness can lead to a lifetime of regret.

£55 is a lot cheaper than a busted mount or having to spend time and effort to extract a bent bolt once its happened... I know I have had to do it a few times now on mounts I have repaired for people and its a gutty, time consuming job and not one that I would do if I could avoid it........not to mention a busted mount means no observing and you just know it will happen when the skies are clear...

Peace, love and use decent bolts :)

Fair enough, Mel.

There are obviously cheaper options out there if you have the time to dig. But for me, well, the last thing I want to do these days is fiddle with a bunch of bolts. I barely have time to scratch my head really :D

Having read the threads above, I'm starting to accept the fact that while there are limited options, a £55 bolts set is a plunge that needed to be taken. And again, it's not the money -- I'm sure a lot of people will think...well...whatever - if it's meant to protect my mount, then so be it...money well spent. It pays off in the long run I suppose. Having said that, I'm sure a lot of us here don't like to feel exploited simply because there aren't many other options. Oh, the niche market of astro gear...!!!

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