'Brightest' DSO's?

[Twiggles]

I've given myself the impression that the brightest nebula and galaxies to view are Orions and Andromeda respectively, but cant find them for love nor money. The side benefit to this is that I am learning my way around the stars (thanks to stellarium and constantly checking what I can see and then trying to navigate from there!) slowly, but can't see any evidence of these at all. Only tried for Andromeda tonight as Orion was parked behind a house before wandering towards a streetlight. Andromeda was much higher in the sky and was hoping I'd get a good chance to view it, but no luck. Using the 25m EP that came with my Skywatcher 130M as I figured using a low power but wider FOV would help me locate it better.

Now, I appreciate that I am in an urban area, lots of light pollution etc, hence why I wanted to find these two. Are there any other 'brighter' nebs or galaxy clusters that would be easier to pick out? Or should I just content myself with general star fields, planets and lunar watching for now?

[Gonzo]

Well with the moon at the moment pretending to be a lighthouse... and urban light pollution, it's going to be difficult to spot M31 (tell me about it, still haven't seen it )

[GlassWalker]

Andromeda galaxy was my first and still the only galaxy I've seen visually. If you could call what I saw as "seeing" it. This was with a 4 inch mak and 25mm eyepiece it came with, giving a magnification of around 53x. With averted gaze, I could just about make out the core as a fuzzy grey blob. I think a much lower magnification would help here, as it is quite big! So far I've never seen any nebula visually.

Note I am in a badly light polluted area, and didn't have dark adapted vision at the time.

[LukeSkywatcher]

The Andromeda galaxy is nothing to write home about visually. Dont get hung up on observing it. Its not that special.

There are so many other galaxies out there that really do impress: Sombrero,Black Eye,Whirlpool, Leo triplet........

[perrin6]

Is your finderscope lined up with the main scope ?

Do you have binoculars ? They can be a great help in navigating your way around the constellations.

It helps to learn the fields of view of the finderscope and your lowest powered eyepiece in degrees to help compare the map views.

[flybywire]

Hi Twiggles, I'm a newbie too! Been outside tonight and managed to easily pick out a couple of star clusters with a scope that I think may be a little smaller than yours. M45 (Pleiades) was easy to pick out with the naked eye, and also because it was close to Jupiter. Decided to give myself a harder task, and managed to find M34 with the help of stellarium, and a good bit of fishing around that part of the sky. Not saying either is particularly exciting to look at, but feels great when you do find what you're looking for! Absolutely loving this. Be patient, and I'm sure the results will come (for both of us!)

[Twiggles]

The Andromeda galaxy is nothing to write home about visually. Dont get hung up on observing it. Its not that special.

There are so many other galaxies out there that really do impress: Sombrero,Black Eye,Whirlpool, Leo triplet........

Was out with the kids and with it being close so to speak, thought we'd try that first as they really wanted to look at another galaxy!

Is your finderscope lined up with the main scope ?

Do you have binoculars ? They can be a great help in navigating your way around the constellations.

It helps to learn the fields of view of the finderscope and your lowest powered eyepiece in degrees to help compare the map views.

Don't have binos, but finderscope appears lined up ok. At least everything comes on target when I point it, though its just the red dot that came with it for now.

Hi Twiggles, I'm a newbie too! Been outside tonight and managed to easily pick out a couple of star clusters with a scope that I think may be a little smaller than yours. M45 (Pleiades) was easy to pick out with the naked eye, and also because it was close to Jupiter. Decided to give myself a harder task, and managed to find M34 with the help of stellarium, and a good bit of fishing around that part of the sky. Not saying either is particularly exciting to look at, but feels great when you do find what you're looking for! Absolutely loving this. Be patient, and I'm sure the results will come (for both of us!)

Yes we looked at Pleiades last night as well, as you say its a nice cluster to locate visually even in badly polluted skies. Patience...need more of that!

[ronin]

Andromeda is "bright" in the sense that it is big and overall there is a "lot" of light off of it. Unfortunately that light is over all of M31 and the actual surface brightness is quite low. M31 is big, it comes in at I think 6x the size of the moon.

In any light pollution it is also difficult to see, people expect a well defined object and what you get is a sort of classic faint fuzzy, very faint, very fuzzy, just big.

Looking direct at M31 usually means it disappears, however looking at where it should be generally reveals an impression of it, after that use binoculars. They pick it out best and having the wide fields they are most likely the best instrument. Seeing it will not fill you with awe, it is a more a case of "Oh, is that Andromeda?"

Orion nebula, well this should be visible. It is an eye visible object. Orion is visible from around 11:00pm onwards, in the South, when it is high enough. Locate the belt and a bit left of centre and below the belt is M42. This assumes you know which is Orion.

[Twiggles]

Yes I know which is Orion, as I said though I only tried for Andromeda last night as Orion was sitting in an iffy patch of sky right behind a house followed by street light! Thanks for the tips reference appearance though, that may help track it a little. More a case right now of trying to find the bigger things to help fill the kids with wonder. Even now theres a lot of "WOAH!" looking at Jupiter, realising those little dots are moons are just pointing it at a blank piece of sky and telling them to count how many stars they can see.

Little things count though at their age and they can't wait to go somewhere dark and catch Stargazing Live. Not at the same time...you know what I mean. Already been informed that when we visit the mother in law this year we are taking the telescope. She lives in a rural area of France, no street lights, no nearby town... views at night are spectacular, can't wait to see what we find this year!

[John]

To be honest I've never managed to get my family to be impressed with any deep sky object. Saturn, Jupiter and the Moon yes, but even the brightest deep sky objects (to us astronomers) don't look much at all to the non-astronomer.

[bingevader]

If it's the children you want to impress, then it's all about the story!

We have a Greek myths and legends book that helps with the constellations and some of the clusters like the Pleiades.

Also, the facts and figures and things like knowing that our galaxy will collide with Andromeda (even if it is in 4 billion years) always help!

Some may think that it's not that impressive visually, but it's still well worth the hunt and particularly impressive as our closest neighbour.

Maybe in rural France you'll get to see it with the naked eye, might still only be a fuzzy blob.

May not have the wow-factor of the planets, but still impresses me, but then I'm easily pleased!

There are some pretty splendid clusters out their if you're struggling with the fainter objects.

The Double Cluster in Perseus usually impresses the children and is still one of my favourites!

Cheers

[Astro Imp]

The conditions really make a huge difference viewing DSOs. I was very fortunate that the first time I viewed M31 it looked stunning, far brighter and more extended than I had anticipated and M110 was easily distinguished looking like a thumb print on my eye piece. Sadly I have not had a view like that since.

If the sky was similar to what I had here last night I would think that you would probably have struggled, although clear of cloud I would think that limiting visual magnitude was down to between 3 and 4.

BTW all my viewing is from my moderately light polluted garden.

[dtr42]

hercules m13 is a nice global cluster , andromeda can be difficult with a scope but with bins its easily seen even in a city with lp however the moon washes it out a lot. i aree with binevader the whole mythology of the stars is great for kids with the constellations being their guides to the start of astronomy . on a clear night with a laser pointer get the kids to find the constellations [pegasus, hercules ,lyra ,cygnus etc ] then once they know where they are show them the dso's stuff for example m13 , or albeiro with its beautiful double star blue and gold or even the ring nebula [m57 in lyra] which is very see able even in lp areas through the scope. good luck as i wish i had got my kids involved when they were younger.

[knobby]

+1 for M13, looks good and has a great name to impress the kids 'Hercules '

[bokeh]

The Orion Nebula is the easiest to find when Orion is above the horizon (in my opinion). Basically, as soon as you can see Orion's Belt, you look slightly below and (if you're dark adapted) you'll see a star, and what seems to be a very slight, twinkling blurry patch that almost seems to dart in an out of vision if you're in an urban area. That's it.

If you can get access to a camera that has the ability to do, say, 15 second exposures, you just point it at Orion and take the photo. You'll see the blurry patch, then you should be able to find it using the image as reference. You'll need a large (ish) apperature telescope to see it and get all its light in.

As far as Andromeda goes, I can't really help you there I'm afraid. I only found it properly (on camera) two nights ago and I'm still learning myself.

Best of luck.

[Josh Wilson]

I found this image of what the Andromeda Galaxy looks like through a scope

This isn't really any scope in particular but I have found that it looks pretty much the same in all of my scopes, most likely because of light pollution.

As for the Orion Nebula, I was able to find that very easily in my first 60mm frac and in horrid light pollution. I can always find it in a pair of binoculars of any shape and size.

I'd also suggest this site for learning how to find a couple of DSO's. I used it when I was new, and it was very helpful.

[Bukko]

I'm set up for imaging, but I did get a good view of Andromeda recently through my 8x50 finderscope.

So I would suggest you aim for the very lowest magnification you can get, or try a pair of binoculars.

For other DSO's, I guess all you will get is faint fuzzies at best.

Is there a local area you could go to with a lot less LP? Possibly make it an expedition with the kids?

For what it's worth, I am up to a 12" Newt and am STILL disapointed with the visuals of DSO's...

(Retire in a few years, I wonder if a 20" would be better...?)

Good luck.

Gordon.

[Twiggles]

Thank you to everyone so far for the replies and advice. I've been using stellarium a lot to find my way around so really need to invest in a planisphere to save nipping in and out. There may be one or two spots I can get to that will have lower levels of LP and the story behind each constellation idea is great. I've found this site: http://www.rocketmime.com/astronomy/Fall/fall.html which lists what can be seen, tells some of the legends etc which may be a help in the meantime. I've been using Stellarium to gauge how things I want to look at might appear, upping the LP to max and using Jupiter as a reference (as I know how that appears when I view it) to zoom so far to mirror what I tend to get then search for the object I want to find such as andromeda and gauge how that may also appear. I don't know if that's an accurate way of researching using the programme though.

Incidentally, I know atmospheric conditions can play a part, but for those of us stargazing in urban areas, how much does heat play a part? All houses etc lose heat, so when we have our scopes pointing over the rooftops, that must surely interfere with the image your viewing?

[Mr Fiery Jack]

To be honest I've never managed to get my family to be impressed with any deep sky object. Saturn, Jupiter and the Moon yes, but even the brightest deep sky objects (to us astronomers) don't look much at all to the non-astronomer.

Absolutely, my wife thinks its all very underwhelming. I don't bother trying to get my family interested anymore.

[northwalesparry]

Hi Twiggles, I'm a newbie too! Been outside tonight and managed to easily pick out a couple of star clusters with a scope that I think may be a little smaller than yours. M45 (Pleiades) was easy to pick out with the naked eye, and also because it was close to Jupiter. Decided to give myself a harder task, and managed to find M34 with the help of stellarium, and a good bit of fishing around that part of the sky. Not saying either is particularly exciting to look at, but feels great when you do find what you're looking for! Absolutely loving this. Be patient, and I'm sure the results will come (for both of us!)

im a neebie too i still havent seen andromeda and orion nebula.

[Stu]

Twiggles, absolutely, centrally heated houses, plumes from boiler flues etc all affect the seeing, particularly when using higher magnifications on planets. It's less of an issue at lower magnifications but can still be a problem. My best views of Jupiter are when it is above the gap between my house and the neighbours as the seeing is much better.

M45 and the Double Cluster are good suggestions for targets to show. Andromeda is fairly easy to star hop to, use you lowest power and averted vision and you should still get it even in bad LP.

Perhaps some of the open clusters in Auriga are also worth a go ie M36, M37 and M38.

Cheers

Stu

[tibbz2]

When I was out the other night in between the clouds I decided to have a peek at Orion nebula to see if I could get a half decent view if I was lucky. But as I expected, the cloudy weather and poor focus mixed with the fact I just lost my night vision due to a car coming down the road with headlights on full, I didn't get a good view at all!

Looks like it's going to be at least another week or two until I can get out again, and even then it depends on the weather

[rory]

agree that open clusters are probably the best to view under light polluted skies or when the moon is about. but ive seen the orion nebula very easily even with a full moon from a town light polluted site and the andromeda galaxy. okay no detail on m42 and only the core of m31 ,but they are probably the brightest of their type of object in my limited experience.

[orions belt]

hi you could have a look at orion's nebula which is just underneath orion's belt, but you really should find somewhere dark away from light pollution.

[Twiggles]

Scored M42 tonight with the boy. Was nice and clear so we were able to get setup before it disappeared behind the nearby houses. I'm sure it looks better in a darker site etc, but I still thought it was pretty awesome even if it was just a grey smudge Could make out four stars in the trapezium cluster, which I thought wasn't bad going for our little scope given the circumstances. Can see how the Ap bug bites as it would have been nice to be able to get a good shot but was too dim for anything to pick it up. Still, one down!