Tips for finding M33

[Spec-Chum]

I’m by no means an expert but only one object has defeated me so far, M33.

I spent around an hour last night looking for it using both TLAO and S&T PSA, but failed.

Going by the maps, I know I’m right on top of it, but just can’t see it. My light pollution level is OK, but not fantastic, so I’m guessing it’s probably that (I can see nu Andromeda which I believe mag 4.5).

I’m looking for a smaller version of M31 in that I’m expecting to see a bright blob, is that right or have I zoomed straight past it without even realising?

Any tips on finding this elusive (to me) object would be appreciated.

[euphony]

I have the exact same problem, it eludes me.

I've got a fairly reliable goto as well so I know I'm in the correct area, but it must be light pollution just washing it out.

I'm interested to see what tips people on here may give too

[John]

It's not a bright blob at all. M33 looks like a very transparent hazy patch of light set between four stars that form a sort of rhomboid. It's an extended object, though not as large as M31 and it's average surface brightness is pretty low. Any sort of light pollution makes it very challenging although I have glimpsed it with 7x35 binoculars on very dark nights.

So a hazy, diffuse patch of light that is almost not there at all !

[euphony]

So a hazy, diffuse patch of light that is almost not there at all !

[Tinker1947]

I use Stellarium and a Telrad, with the Telrad circles set in Stellarium, setting the Telrad so its outer ring at the 7 O'clock mark is on Mothallah, M33 is on the opposite side at the 1 O'clock position, then its just a case of slewing over to the midway point...I did see M33 in moon polluted sky's last week....

[DirkSteele]

I have used very accurate GoTo and completely failed to see it. Very low surface brightness and extended size means any light pollution really harms the chances of seeing it. Dark skies, and a low power, wild field view through a 4" refractor was my only succesful attempt (my C11 cannot show enough clear sky around it to really help to difine the galaxy).

[cotterless45]

Find M31, drop down to Mirach, continue to drop down in this line until you make a 90 degree line with the bright top star in Triangulum.Then you'll hit The Pinwheel.

Even with a goto, you're not looking at great beans, it's faint, it'll blow away with magnifiacation. On a good night I've seen it by eye and small bins.

Nick.

[rwilkey]

Hi Spec-chum, check out Part 4 of the pictorial guide on this page: http://www.swindonstargazers.com/beginners/stargazing.htm

[acey]

Most important tip: have a dark sky. M33 is large and of low surface brightness, and does not have a bright central core like M31 has. So if the sky is too bright then nothing will show it. In a dark sky it can be seen easily with binoculars and some can even manage naked eye (though I never have). First time I ever saw it was by just randomly sweeping the area with binoculars at a dark site and it stood out clearly. From my light-polluted back garden (limiting mag 4.5) it's pretty much impossible.

[Spec-Chum]

Oh, I thought a limiting mag of 4.5 would be ok. Shame

Thanks for all the advice tho, I'll give it one last go this week as I've seen the rhomboid everytime so I know I'm in The right area

[acey]

Need to distinguish between total magnitude and surface brightness. The Milky Way has a high total magnitude because it's so big, but if you can only see stars down to mag 4.5 then you won't see the Milky Way. M31 may have a total magnitude of 4.5 but if you can see stars only down to that limit you won't be able to see the galaxy with the naked eye. Surface brightness of M33 is comparable to that of the Milky Way, so that's the sort of sky darkness you need to get a good view. You're probably looking in exactly the right place but the sky is just too bright for there to be enough contrast. Try using lowest power and keep yourself completely shielded from ambient light by putting a hood over your head. Look at the right place until your eyes adapt as fully as possible - give it at least half an hour. If you're still not seeing anything then maybe it just won't be possible. If you do see it, expect a large faint glow with a very slight brightening at the centre.

[swamp thing]

M33 is one of my real favourites of the sky. It's huge spiral arms sprawling right out accross the sky. It even has its own nebula in the new general catalogue (NGC604) a huge H-II region visible in very modest scopes. The big problem with M33 is surface brightness. Any LP and it's details are quickly lost.

To view this beauty in all it's splendour you must find a dark site. The darker your sky, the more you will see. Like a lot of low surface brightness objects, giant apertures aren't needed. What's needed is a dark sky.

[acey]

M33 actually has a number of H-II regions and star clouds with their own NGC/IC or other designations - a very nice challenge for those with a dark enough sky and sufficient aperture (a 12" is enough for all the NGCs).

[Tinker1947]

Something to spend some time on next week when the weather clears and my Lodestar arrives...Nice map.....

[swamp thing]

Indeed acey. Great map cheers for that I've saved that one.

[JamesF]

Even with my 10" dob from home (NELM about 5.6-ish on a moonless night) it's hard to see if the moon is in the sky. I managed to find it on Saturday night, but it was pretty near the limit of visibility.

James

[Mr Flibble]

I got it last saturday but it really is very diffuse and faint. As well as dark skies, a sufficiently wide EP is needed so that it stands out against the darker surrounding background. When trying to locate it I find it helps to very slowly sweep the area so that the lightness of the galaxy becomes more easy to spot. Good luck.

[laser_jock99]

M33 is much larger than you might expect but also very faint. The two images below of M33 & M31 taken in August are roughly the same image scale and exposure. They illustrate how diffuse and therefore difficult M33 is compared to the larger & brighter M31. M33 is only as bright as the outer part of M31 excepting a small knot at the core.

M33 1200 seconds

M31 900 seconds

[Matt Scunthorpe]

Ive found this thread helpful. I went to look for it the other night but it had dropped below the house (only just!) but now i know what i am looking for (or rather not looking for lol)

[Floating...]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who's having trouble with M33. This is my second year of trying to find it & still nothing! I mean, I expect not to be able to find my car keys every now & then but how can you not find something thats 50,000+ light years accross!!! (Queue Father Ted style lecture about 'this is near but thats faaaaar away....')

[Moonshane]

As others have said, it's a dark sky object mainly. I have seen this naked eye and easily in bins from Buxton in the Peak District where spiral arms were obvious in the 12" dob I had at the time. from home it's do-able in 15x70s with averted vision but in my scope is barely there (16" dob).

[Bart]

Last night was great here. Got M33 in my 10" quite easily, altough it didn't have too much detail. I'm hoping to wheel out the 16" on a dark night later when its higher in the sky and hopefully it will have more detail. I imagine it would be truely wonderful from a dark site with big aperture. What drove me mad last night was finding the Blue Snowball, some nights I do, some nights I can't. It drives me crazy.

Barry

[Spec-Chum]

Funny you should mention the blue snowball, after taking 2 hours to find it the first time I can now find it in seconds whereas I can't find m33 and you find it easily.

Funny old game, as greavsey would say

[Spec-Chum]

Just spent 3 hours looking for this. Nada. I give up lol.

On the plus side finally saw the pleiades through my scope. Awesome!

[John]

Funny you should mention the blue snowball, after taking 2 hours to find it the first time I can now find it in seconds whereas I can't find m33 and you find it easily.

Funny old game, as greavsey would say

I know just where M33 is but on quite a few nights I just can't actually see it because there is too much light pollution / moonlight / thin cloud around. With respect to M33, "too much" means any at all !

Sometimes it's no more than a hazy slightly lighter patch of sky, more suspected than seen, as it were.

You will know when you get a really good, dark, transparent (as it's called) sky because you will see M33 then - and wonder how you missed it !

As you say, it's a strange old hobby at times