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Goto or not goto for a newbie


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+1 for GoTo but this is very definitely personal preference territory... it really depends on what you want to get out of the hobby.

Star hopping is a real skill and one that I have not acquired, but I honestly think that it's a fallacy to say that you don't learn the sky if you have GoTo...

I think this is very true as with the scope pointed correctly you at least know where to look next time by looking at the stars around the object. It is amazing what you pick up without really realising it.

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I believe GOTO has it's uses. When I started out, I was often frustrated at not being able to find faint objects in light polluted skies.

The acquisition of a GOTO helped solve that problem and helped stop a rot that Isy have seen me give up early on.

Having said that, there is nothing quite like finding things for yourself.

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Agree with the comments above about it being personal choice but I would some further considerations. The first is that with an equatorial Goto system, you can of course turn the Goto off, release the RA (left/right) and the Dec (up/down) clutches if you want to go manual so you experience the best of both worlds. Goto on an alt-azimuth is fine but there is no manual option (unless you are using the hand controller to direct the scope) as there are no release clutches on each axis of movement and always requires power to enable you to move the scope. I would not consider choosing Goto as part of your budget if it means getting a scope that has a smaller aperture than originally planned for. A menu of 15,000 objects or more mean nothing if you can only see 50 of those objects which the mount has found for you. Lastly, one really positive advantage with Goto (which might seem appropriate given our 'summer') is that it does allow you to observe when there is the occasional bit of cloud. Providing there are sufficient gaps to finish the alignment procedure, you can rely on the Goto system to set off and find your chosen object allowing you to then wait for the clouds to clear to observe and then off to the next target and so on. Trying to star hop under these conditions (unless experienced) is a frustrating experience and one that ultimately may convince you to pack up for the night and go indoors. Many a session for me has been extended by Goto with the sudden appearance of occasional cloud and given the observing/imaging drought we have had of late, I quite happy to take what small crumbs I can before losing my sanity! :grin: :grin: :grin:

James

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I've reread this thread and you ask a specific question:

Will a goto mount make life easier and the learning curve less steep or would you be better off persevering and trying to locate the different objects yourself?

In the early 1990's I got a Russian 20x60 monocular for DSO's (lol!). It didn't have a tripod adapter so hand held it and bagged quite a few Messier objects first light. Pleased, I lay down to scan the stars (steadier lying down). Then I saw this "thing", brighter than M31 with detail in it. I checked my Messier list... not there. After consulting my "I spy DSO" book and Patrick Moore from the Library, found it was the "Double Cluster"! The fact I'd found it "all by myself" and identified it made it quite special for me.

The next day I gaffa taped the monocular to a broom handle and used a chimney pot my Mother had been using as a flower pot, as a rest to get a better view.

It's still my favorite object. Here's a hamfisted attempt at a picture (Lens was a 400mm 1970's f6.3. £25 from cashconverters. D40...)

doublecluster.jpg

I hope that's more useful than my previous post. In reply to your question I'd say B.

Clear Skies

Alex

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Wow! Not long got home from work and thought id check to see if there were any replies and seen all these. Thank you, its certainly helped me out a lot.

I had narrowed the choices down to either getting a fairly basic small scope mounted on an eq mount or on an az goto mount. At the moment, i would have to say that planetary observation is my prime interest but at the same time i know once i get a good view/look at the m31 andromeda galaxy it will have me wanting to see others as well but id have to say its the planets that interest me.

I wont lie, i have tried star hopping a few times and i end up getting disorientated even when attempting to star hop from the pointers of the plough to polaris using 10x50 binoculars and after several attempts i just end up getting disheartened and having a quick look at the moon before going in feeling a bit gutted that i couldnt even perform that simple task. Thats probably one of the main reasons i have never taken this hobby further than going outside and pointing the binoculars at some random objects in the sky every so often.

From that perspective a basic scope with GOTO could be what i've been looking for and will prove invaluable. The flip side of the coin is, as others have said, having a computer do the work for you would take the satisfaction away from finding something yourself.

As it stands, and reading different peoples views and experiences on it, which are all fantastic and encouraging, i think i will more than likely go for a modest scope on a goto mount just to get some observing done rather than making a small list of objects to view, not being able to find any of them and getting more disheartened. At least with the goto, once set up, i can get some viewing done and i know it will pull me in and encourage me to learn more about the night sky and how to locate and track objects by myself.

Thanks again for all the replies, they have helped me out a heck of a lot, hopefully others in a similar situation will come across and read it to hopefully help them towards making their decisions as well :)

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GO TO is great in my opinion. It all just depends what gives you pleasure. I like to look at stuff not find it, some people enjoy the hunting.

Wise words on here are 'the best scope for you is the one that you'll use'.

You pays your money and you takes your pick!

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Hi,

An AZ GOTO won't disappoint for the planets, star clusters and DSOs and if you decide that you want to get into long exposure astrophotography and hence need an EQ mount by then you will know your way around. There is also a very healthy second hand sales, through this website, eBay and Astrobuysell and good scopes hold their value.

With our weather, we get so little good viewing time and a GOTO will help you maximise that time. Read the astronomy columns in the press, the mags and on-line of what to look for each month and you will soon know the heavens.

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Goto is great,but will eat you budget up a little and a small sope and a goto is some tines evil because you have a scope that will point any were but,usually the scope to small to see them,my hand set boasts 130 thousand objects but I bet it will not see half a em

Pat

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Sounds to me that a Goto scope will indeed be your best option.

Planetary observation for me is what Goto's are about. Finding the telescopic planets is always a case of getting the relevant up to date finder charts etc without it. It also allows you to observe Venus and mercury when they are pretty high in the sky. It can also help to find these two when the sun makes searching for them dangerous with regular mounts.

For finding the minor planets or asteroids they can also prove invaluable too. Centering accurately on them so notes of star positions can be taken then repeated the following night to see which one has moved, or comparing directly to known star positions, identification can be made easily, and with far less agro than any regular mount.

If you are stuck under a LP sky with no transport they also can be a benefit when hunting some DSO,s too, but, TBH I would invest the money in transport to get me the hell out of the place rather than use a Goto scope from it.

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Because I'm an imager almost exclusively these days, I use GOTO. DSO imaging takes up enough time, and has enough challenges of its own, so I make good use of the minutes I save finding an object. However, when I was using the Vixen 80M (which I must have been doing almost 20 years ago), there was a great sense of accomplishment in using the setting circles on the Polaris mount to find objects for myself. I still remember finding M57 that way. Having said that, GOTO didn't really exist 20 years ago (not in an affordable way) so it was never an option.

I'd say that if you're going to get into visual astronomy, then non-GOTO would save you money, and would teach you a lot. If you're going to get into imaging, you're doomed to spend a fortune on things, so may as well get GOTO and spend those gained moments on fighting with cameras, filterwheels, off-axis guiders, computers, underpowered USBs...

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Hi,

All I can add to this thread is that after having a explorer 150p for 16 months and struggling due to LP to find some of the easier objects, I now have the full synscan which I love, If i wanted to I could probably on a good night I could view loads of diferent objects both deep sky and within our solar system.

For me goto isnt a cheat or an idiot proof way of viewing objects as it has its own problems like alignment, and You will still learn the sky but this way you will learn without the thought of going outside for hours to be dissapointed and going back indoors feeling let down by your own skill level, which will only improve with time and experience.

Arm yourself with a good guide like stellarium or Cartes de ceil and with or without a goto and eventually the universe will be yours but at your own pace.

Clear Skies

Kev.

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For the best part of 30 yrs observing, i used 10X50 bins. It was only in the last 5 yrs i bought a scope (a 90mm refractor on an EQ mount and a Heritage 130P).

Then at Christmas 2011...............i bougtht a Celestron 8SE (Go-To).

After 30 yrs of manually finding objects with bins and manual scopes, i have decided i have paid my dues and deserve a bit of the good life and now i sit back and relax and let the Go-To do the work for me.

For a first scope......if you can afford a Go-To scope..............................go for it.

It really is not "cheating".

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This has been an interesting and useful thread for me. I'm happy at the moment with a manual set-up and to be quite honest I didn't realise that such things as "Go-to's" were available when I first acquired my scope. Like I've said before, I'm at the bottom of a steep learning curve. I think I can learn a lot more by trying (and maybe failing) to find my own way around. My initial reaction was that these devices were "cheating" and like any other activity you should work your way up and learn the ropes first, then perhaps upgrade when you know exactly what you want to do.

I feel quite sure that it won't be long before I'm thinking of another set-up (esp as I'd like to get into imaging), but in the meantime I'm looking forward to learning the skies with my modest set-up (including binos and eyeballs) :smiley:

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This age old question always sparks a healthy debate. I have not read the full thread so sorry if this is repeating sme of the points.

I am a visual only astronomer. If I were into imaging then in my light polluted skies near Manchester, I'd definitely have GOTO. GOTO is I expect essential for getting even close to a lot of the stuff you cannot see visually no matter how big your scope or dark your skies.

My view on GOTO for visual is that I would never get it on my scopes. The reasons are as follows:

  1. For a set cost, I can afford a set aperture/optical quality. Anything that reduces the money available for aperture or quality is unattractive to me, therefore GOTO is a cost I don't want. If I could afford GOTO then I'd just argue that I could afford more aperture instead and the argument (in my mind) continues ad infinitum!
  2. I don't like equatorial mounts and GOTO is trickier and possibly more expensive for bigger dobs.
  3. I like it simple. I have a battery for my fan, my torch and my telrad and that's it. If all power fails I can still observe quite happily.
  4. Also on the simple front, I like the freedom of moving the scope wherever I like, quickly. I would not want to spend time setting up a GOTO system but don't mind chasing faint stuff in the finder for ages - go figure!
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This age old question always sparks a healthy debate. I have not read the full thread so sorry if this is repeating sme of the points.

I am a visual only astronomer. If I were into imaging then in my light polluted skies near Manchester, I'd definitely have GOTO. GOTO is I expect essential for getting even close to a lot of the stuff you cannot see visually no matter how big your scope or dark your skies.

My view on GOTO for visual is that I would never get it on my scopes. The reasons are as follows:

  1. For a set cost, I can afford a set aperture/optical quality. Anything that reduces the money available for aperture or quality is unattractive to me, therefore GOTO is a cost I don't want. If I could afford GOTO then I'd just argue that I could afford more aperture instead and the argument (in my mind) continues ad infinitum!
  2. I don't like equatorial mounts and GOTO is trickier and possibly more expensive for bigger dobs.
  3. I like it simple. I have a battery for my fan, my torch and my telrad and that's it. If all power fails I can still observe quite happily.
  4. Also on the simple front, I like the freedom of moving the scope wherever I like, quickly. I would not want to spend time setting up a GOTO system but don't mind chasing faint stuff in the finder for ages - go figure!

I am more or less the same, but I like an EQ mount (with RA motor), because I do not need very precise polar alignment for visual, and the tracking keeps objects in the FOV neatly. If the battery fails, I guide manually. I prefer EQ star hops to alt-az star hops (I must be slightly twisted, or have a polar aligned brain ;)), because EQ moves remain the same, regardless of where or when I observe an object.

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when i started out i bought a 200p explorer without GOTO - i found saturn, the moon and a few other local celestial bodies... however after that i got frustrated and sold it ! i then bought a 250px with GOTO (skyliner DOB) and now i have it i dont always use it... in other words - it will allow you to see the faint stuff which you may not find otherwise, but you can still learn without it, i can find several messiers manually now with no problem and i never saw a DSO until i had the goto ironically

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As much as id love to, im not in a position to be able to get a big scope at the moment due to lack of space at home, and with all the light pollution where i live i doubt ill be able to see a lot of stuff no matter what size scope i got, thats why im thinking goto, just to make life a little easier with observing from the back garden. If i do get bitten by the bug, as a lot of people do, im hoping to be in a position in a year or so from now where i will be able to get a big light bucket of a scope but at the moment im just not able to.

Hopefully there will be clearer skies tomorrow night so the south wales meet goes ahead and will be able to go along and see some different scopes 'in the flesh' to be able to get a better idea of sizes etc.

I'm so glad i asked this question now as the responses have been amazing and as a 'noob' just looking to take another step forward in the hobby its given me plenty of different opinions and has helped me out more than any book could on the subject, hope its done the same for others as well, so thanks to all of you :)

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I totally understand your decision. The irony of GOTO to my mind is that is you have poor skies then it is recommended as things are hard to find (but you cannot seem them vortually due to the LP). I don't see people recommend them as often for darkr sites yet in my opinion you need them more there are 1) you have more items you can potentially see and 2) you generally want to see more of them in the time you have.

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I haven't read the whole thread so apalogies but to answer the original question...

I think it comes down to the sort of person you are; can you pay attention long enough on your chosen target?

I chose a non-goto scope as I knew that if I had goto I would flit around targets all night long and not remember any of them as i wouldn't study them long enough and just move on. Other people though wouldn't get excited and stay on the goto found target :)

For me though finding a target is fun, even in light polluted skies (I would suggest a big finderscope to help). It took me 2 nights to find M13 the first time but when I did i went to sleep that night thinking what it would be like if Earth was within M13 as I looked at it for a long time. Personally I don't think I would have had the same experience with goto.

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Interesting point about the Eq star hopping, Michael.

At a dark site, I find star hopping easier. If you can see down to mag 7 or so then there's almost always a naked eye star near to the DSO you're interested in. It's therefore very easy to find what you want. You may have trouble identifying what you're looking at if it's in a busy area, such as Coma, but then again you'd have that difficulty with GoTo too.

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I haven't read the whole thread so apalogies but to answer the original question...

I think it comes down to the sort of person you are; can you pay attention long enough on your chosen target?

I chose a non-goto scope as I knew that if I had goto I would flit around targets all night long and not remember any of them as i wouldn't study them long enough and just move on. Other people though wouldn't get excited and stay on the goto found target :)

For me though finding a target is fun, even in light polluted skies (I would suggest a big finderscope to help). It took me 2 nights to find M13 the first time but when I did i went to sleep that night thinking what it would be like if Earth was within M13 as I looked at it for a long time. Personally I don't think I would have had the same experience with goto.

excellent point and summarises my own views. I should say that usually when I don't read a whole thread it's because I want to add a comment and find the thread at the end of my lunch hour!

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