Is aperture actually king?

[midge91]

Hi guys,

I'm in the transition of buying a new scope as my current one is a chinese thing without a name (it was a xmas present). This scope was good for looking at the moon when I was like 9. Currently as I am taking astronomy as a GCSE subject I have developed an interest in viewing the planets and DSOs. I know that to see the object in great detail and am not expecting to get pictures like the hubble scope does.

Two totally different scopes have caught my eye and I need help and advice to make my decision. The first scope is the Celestron Nexstar 4SE. This scope looks amazing and the computerized features look fantastic, I love the idea of plugging it into my PC or taking a telescope tour of The Universe. The 'GoTo' system looks good and I like gadgets such as this. The sceond scope is the Skywatcher Skyliner 200p. I have had many recommendations for this scope as the views from it are apparently astonishing. The aper The problem I have is that I want to see Messier objects and the cool things but how will I find them and also the 'GoTo' looks very easy to use and can give you spectacular experiences in touring The Universe. If anybody has any advice please tell me and if anyone who owns either of these scopes sees this post please share how you find them.

Thanks,

Midge

[spaceboy]

Bigger is better for seeing DSO's but bigger often means a loss in portability. Most find a 10" dob to give good views while still being able to fit across the back seat of a car for visits to dark skies.

[26Left]

Aperture isn't everything in my opinion. I have had some terrific view with my refractors. But, some objects like globular clusters are transformed by decent aperture.

I have heard good things about the 8" Skywatcher, but I have never owned one, so I cannot really comment.

I own a Nextstar 4SE and I can say that optically, it is extremely good for a 4" scope. Great views and it's ready to go pretty quickly. For me, what lets it down is the mount. Mine has play on both axes and the goto isn't particularly accurate.

[midge91]

Bigger is better for seeing DSO's but bigger often means a loss in portability.

For me portability isn't to big a problem as I live right on the outskirts of a town and there is a field (which is pretty dark) 10 seconds walk from my house. I think I will go for the biggest I can afford and go from there. Out of interest what things are in the DSO category is it like: stars, nebulae and galaxies?

[Moonshane]

generally DSO means anything not in our solar system. or that's what I mean when I use it!

the 8" dob will serve anyone well and finding the messier objects is reasonably straight forward assuming you have a decent star map and relatively dark skies.

[damnut]

Hi Midge91,

My vote is for the dob!, you will soon learn your way round the sky. You can also then automate to an extent your dob and make it a 'nudge to'.

I don't have a dob but I frequently use two refractors in alt az and my SCT (10") in plain old alt az too.

Cheers

[Capricorn]

Difficult, the two scopes are very different and intended for different aspects of this hobby.

The 200P will collect more light, it will therefore enable you to see more.

The 200P is fully manual, you have to know where to look and then point the 200P at that exact part of the sky. As the earth rotates you have to nudge the 200P around to keep the object in sight.

Another point is that you have to decide what you want to look at, there is no menu to select something from. Doesn't sound much but relevant.

These things will, in general, be learnt, but there are people that always have difficulty.

The 4SE is a lot smaller, it will not collect as much light. It will need setting up and aligning - please get that into your head!!!

You do not stand it on a bit of ground and say GO! For that you need the Meade LS scopes.

Once aligned it will whiz around and locate things for you. Please accept that it will not stick things in the exact centre every time and at all magnifications.

The alignment process is, I find easy, many end up debating throwing them under a bus during the first few weeks. If any of the data is wrong it will not align correctly. There is no arguing with a computer.

The advantage of the 4SE is you can look at something, straighten up, talk to someone then look again and it will still be in view. Also means someone else can look and it will be there and not have drifted out.

As said at the start they are 2 different scopes.

The best scope is the one you use the most.

So the question for you is: Which would you use the most?

[Mark at Beaufort]

Hello Midge and welcome to SGL.

The goto system can be fantastic but you pay alot for it and very often the scope is the cheapest part of the set up. 12 years ago I bought a Nexstar 5" SCT which had a goto system and it was great. However, over the years I stopped using goto and now go star hopping to everything.

Many of the Messier objects are easy to find once you get to know the main constellations.

I would purchase the Sky and Telescope pocket atlas which costs less than £10 from Amazon. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sky-Telescopes-Pocket-Atlas/dp/1931559317 Personally I would buy the 8" Dob and fit a red dot finder and maybe change the supplied finderscope for a correct view right angled finder. I say this because when you look through the right angled finder the view will be the same as the star maps.

If you have any other questions just ask.

Mark

[Tinker1947]

On the what to look at and where to find them, do a Google search for " Telrad Maps" they have the Messier list on different maps print them out and insert in plastic to keep the dew off.

[acey]

Sky darkness is king, aperture is queen, experience is everything.

Go for the 200p, buy a decent star map and have fun.

[rory]

id go for the dob too. like suggested,you'll enjoy learning the sky. a sky map,turn left ect will all help,but the best aid for me up to now has been stellarium. its a fantastic bit of software for FREE !!

[midge91]

id go for the dob too. like suggested,you'll enjoy learning the sky. a sky map,turn left ect will all help,but the best aid for me up to now has been stellarium. its a fantastic bit of software for FREE !!

I have that soft ware and use it to do some naked eye observing when i'm bored as you said great piece of software and FREE.

[rory]

I have that soft ware and use it to do some naked eye observing when i'm bored as you said great piece of software and FREE.

indeed , and you can enter eyepieces that match yourown ,as well as your scope,so you can more or less replicate what youd see in the field of view.

i often use it by zooming in to objects and looking and noting star patterns ,which then helps me locating when i go out side.

having said that, there are many who love the go to type.

[Parus major]

Dob. If you have a smartphone you can use it as a push to guider using SkEye or Google Sky so you really won't get lost.

[perrin6]

I like the idea of having 3 scopes -

a small portable that gives wide views, is ready to use in half an hour of cool down time and can be taken anywhere easily,

a large scope for those long nights of deep-immersion, deep-space experience that can see thousands of objects ,

a medium scope to 'chuck out' on those iffy-weather nights and which gives good views of the planets and brightest objects.

An 8 inch Dobsonian is good for the medium category scope - takes less than an hour to cool down and gives great views of the planets, moon and brighter messier objects. The nextstar is somewhere between the small and medium category ; easily portable and good optics although not for wide views of general star fields and I think not quite as short a cool-down time as eg a 4inch refractor.

[John]

.... also the 'GoTo' looks very easy to use and can give you spectacular experiences in touring The Universe.....

The plain truth is that a 4" scope just won't give you "spectacular experiences" with deep sky objects even if the clever mount points the scope right at these objects

[LukeSkywatcher]

The plain truth is that a 4" scope just won't give you "spectacular experiences" with deep sky objects even if the clever mount points the scope right at these objects

Thats what i have been pondering since deciding to get the 8se. Is a Go-To system not wasted on a 4" scope!!!!!.

I kind of think it is.

You can have a much larger Dob for half the price. Which makes much more sense if portability isnt an issue.

[swamp thing]

The plain truth is that a 4" scope just won't give you "spectacular experiences" with deep sky objects even if the clever mount points the scope right at these objects

This is so true.

Unless you are able to observe from Mauna Kea of an evening.

Regards Steve

[midge91]

I like the idea of having 3 scopes -

a small portable that gives wide views, is ready to use in half an hour of cool down time and can be taken anywhere easily,

a large scope for those long nights of deep-immersion, deep-space experience that can see thousands of objects ,

a medium scope to 'chuck out' on those iffy-weather nights and which gives good views of the planets and brightest objects.

An 8 inch Dobsonian is good for the medium category scope - takes less than an hour to cool down and gives great views of the planets, moon and brighter messier objects. The nextstar is somewhere between the small and medium category ; easily portable and good optics although not for wide views of general star fields and I think not quite as short a cool-down time as eg a 4inch refractor.

This would be very expensive for an amateur like myself although maybe something for the future. What is considered as a large scope.

[LukeSkywatcher]

This would be very expensive for an amateur like myself although maybe something for the future. What is considered as a large scope.

Once you start buying scopes its quite easy to lose the run of yourself and build up a collection in a short(ish) amount of time.

This time 7 yrs ago i only had 1 scope.

Now i have 4.

1) 70mm (f5) widefield refractor (my grab and go scope)~100 euros

2) 90mm (f11) refractor (i like to observe planets with this one)~350 euros *ouch!!!*

3) 130mm Dob (this is a bit of an all rounder, really good on DSO's and pretty good on planets. Also a grab and go scope)~130 euros(ish)

4) 200mm "Go-To" SCT (hopefully it will arrive this week. Not too sure yet what its good for but i think its great on the Moon and planets and not too bad on DSO's)~MUCHO MUCHO EUROS

So it really is pretty easy to let scopes mount up (no pun intended). It need not be expensive either. It is nice to have a scope for every occassion. Depending on what you feel like you can pick one or the other etc.

Sorry if this comment seems flippant in these harsh economic times and offends anyone. I'm as cheap as they come really. I just work hard and save even harder. Easy to do being a single guy with no kids.

Its all about getting your priorities straight. My new scope means that i will be eating beans on toast for the next 6 months. The dog will be lucky if she gets fed at all.

[perrin6]

This would be very expensive for an amateur like myself although maybe something for the future. What is considered as a large scope.

A large scope is the biggest you can physically move and financially afford, I suppose.

What I was trying to suggest in a roundabout way is that whatever you buy will still be used even if you get a different sized/type of scope later on as different scopes have different uses. If you get an 8 inch dob now you might still want a smaller one later for different uses so I wouldn't worry too much what you get as long as it's good quality. If you have never had a telescope you won't know what would be ideal until you have used one for a few months. The 8 inch is certainly a keeper as it's a great all round scope. The 4 inch is still good & has GOTO although will show less than the 8inch.

[sabana]

I believe this is all about damage limitation. To save thousands think smart.

I'd get your 4se

I'd get your Dob

I'd get a small frag and eq mount.

One Scope to rule them all, One Scope to find them,

One Scope to bring them all and in the darkness bind them

[LukeSkywatcher]

A large scope is the biggest you can physically move and financially afford, I suppose.

I'd agree with that.

[Parus major]

A large scope is the biggest you can physically move and financially afford, I suppose.

I'd agree with that.

It's also worth thinking about what you will be able to afford in future. which often allows you to make a cheaper purchase now. The 200 Dob is one such option. It's cheaper than the 4SE, bigger so you can see much, much more and you have the future option of mounting it on a HEQ5 or higher at some point if you wish, giving you the basis for a set up that very decent imagers use.

[LukeSkywatcher]

It's also worth thinking about what you will be able to afford in future. which often allows you to make a cheaper purchase now.

Personally i am done. I have just bought the biggest most portable scope on the market for my situation.

Until the next big thing. LOL.

8se is my limit for now.