12mm Nagler or 12mm Delos

[moriniboy]

To be used in various scopes from a F5 newtonian to F11 refractor

Less than £10 between them.

82 deg Nagler vs 72 deg Delos but what about the views, has anyone done a side by side comparison?

I would be very interested to know

Thanks 

[swamp thing]

In a word yes I have, my observing buddy has the Delos I have the Nagler TBH I can't tell any difference except the AFOV. You'll need better eyes than me to split them

[Scooot]

The twist adjustment mechanism for the eye relief on the Delos is very good, Delos weighs slightly less and eye relief is slightly more but not much in it. Its quite a difficult choice -

[Qualia]

One could argue that the Delos along with the Ethos is the next evolutionary step in eyepiece design, so should - in theory - outperform the previous generation of TV eyepieces such as Panoptics or Naglers. But the way I see it is that they're all coming from the same legendary stable, so there's probably not a lot in it, if anything, in terms of sharpness and contrast etc. I sometimes think when it comes to the next big thing - myself included - unconsciously we convince ourselves that what we now own is better than what came before without considering the job our brains do at the kindly game of self-deception .

If I were you, I'd be looking at other issues such as weight, field of view, eye-relief and the telescope's own characteristics. For example, in fast scopes the edges may just be a smidgen tighter in the Delos than the Nagler which wouldn't be surprising as we're comparing 82º to 72º. On the other hand, the Nagler is going to show a huge expanse of gorgeous night sky that the Delos simply cannot match.

[Uplooker]

I will be very interested in people opinions as i have been considering almost the same thing.

Ian

[Pig]

I have tried both & the only 2 differences have been covered above.

The views through both are excellent.

The Nagler wins on FOV and the Delos wins on the eye cup adjustment feature (zero blackouts). I prefer the Delos because of this feature.

I also get the blackout condition with my T31 Nagler if eye placement is not spot on. However, once you get used to positioning your eye it is no real big deal.

[Naemeth]

The 12mm Delos is a cracking eyepiece, I don't have any experience of the 12mm Nagler however. I don't think you can go wrong with either.

[Stargazer_00]

The Delos would be more comfortable in my opinion.  The difference in AFOV is a consideration. I like the 72 degree view myself, I always felt 82 degrees on mid range and low end eyepieces takes away from the view, oddly enough.  It's a bit counter intuititve but that's my experience.  I like 82-100 degrees  from low-mid to low end.

[boyfromlincs]

i have the delos 12 and a mate has the nagler 12..we had a good couple of hours with them both the other night in his 8 inch dob and in my 4 inch refractor, to be honest id be happy with either as both gave surperb views both had very good eye relief, the delos has slightly more, it may depend if you can get on with the nagler instadjust as some like me like it some dont.. the delos locks in place and stays there and is a very neat system... regarding 72 v 82 fov like DOB THE BUILDER  said i was struggling to see much differance.. i wear glasses my mate does'nt and both eps suited us both..

[Mr Spock]

The T4 Naglers are a classic design. I haven't got the 12mm, but if it's anything like the 22mm and 17mm it's a cracker.

[hippie]

I have a 13mm Nagler lens which is my favourite lens,    

[scarp15]

I have a 10mm Delos and would be interested in adding a 12mm Delos, yet I have a 13mm nagler T6 which as above is a favourite. The Delos eyepieces though are superb.

[alan potts]

I have many Televue eyepieces in this area and you really have to look hard to see any difference between them, they are all that good. The 12mm Nagler until last week was going to be sold and replaced with a Delos but now I am keeping it. The 12mm Delos on the other hand, which I do not have, will have a flatter field of view with less if any pin-cushion distortion and maybe a tad better transmission, but it really will be straw picking for the other abberations .

In general at this level, be it Nagler Delos or Ethos the views are absolutely top draw.

Alan.

[denis0007dl]

I would pick always Delos over Nagler because Delos have more neutral tone colour, and I like this.

More neutral tone colour mens more natural image without any tint added in pict, while best solution are monocentric and high quality orthos.

[John]

..... while best solution are monocentric and high quality orthos.

Not if you wear glasses to observe Denis  

[AlexB67]

Not if you wear glasses to observe Denis  

.. Also I guess the extra nudging with the manual scopes that is needed as well is not for everyone. Though I got used to only using about 30 degrees of the FOV in my old 6mm SW UWA where a lot of the FOV was not that useable anyway, so I got into the frequently nudging business, but I didn't get frustrated.  I think with a bit smoother mount  I could live with narrow FOVs quite happily a lot of the time I think, but something you have to be in the mood for as well.

Sometimes spending several hours at the eyepiece looking at something like Jupiter that extra bit of FOV is nice to have and do the work for you,  the very narrow ones may get a bit tiring to use after a while I guess.

[scarp15]

I would pick always Delos over Nagler because Delos have more neutral tone colour, and I like this.

More neutral tone colour mens more natural image without any tint added in pict, while best solution are monocentric and high quality orthos.

Yep, I purchased the 10mm delos for that reason, primarily to be used as a planetary e.p (with my C8) and so the 12mm delos would attract me for the same reason. However it provided terrific views with my dob to, such as a few weeks back on the M82 super nova. i do enjoy the wider field naglers though with the dobsonian at higher power, even though the eye relief is not so generous. Introducing more delos into my own collection may create an in-balance and eye positioning issue mixed between T5 and T6 light / compact naglers.

[alan potts]

I am not a nudger but I find tight eyepieces tiring and rarely use them for long periods. For that reason I don't really see how one can compare any short orthoscopic, no matter how good with an eyepiece you can happily use all night. I know I do not own Zeiss Zo IIs or a Monosentic which may well make me put up with the small FOV and very tight eye-relief a bit longer, but on balance I think the Delos and the like have a lot going for them.

Part of me though would love to see through one but the prices are very high.

Alan

[denis0007dl]

Not if you wear glasses to observe Denis  

I agree if we talk if point is eye releaf nad FOV, in other terms monos and top orthos wins!

[John]

I agree if we talk if point is eye releaf nad FOV, in other terms monos and top orthos wins!

If you wear glasses to observe the shorter focal length Supermonos and orthos are unusable for most. I can't see how that makes them winners for those folks.

[AlexB67]

If you wear glasses to observe the shorter focal length Supermonos and orthos are unusable for most. I can't see how that makes them winners for those folks.

Just having looked through a 5mm BGO and for fun trying with glasses I can concur.  I was surprised though I could see anything at all with them on. You'll not see up to the field stop, that's for sure, but if a 20 - 30 degree  FOV is okay , by all means, but that's it, and you'll need to press them a bit into your head 

[astronymonkey]

I have the t4 naglers for my mid range then move to 8mm and 6mm delos for high power.

the 12mm t4 is a nice eyepiece but it is basically a 1.25ince eyepiece with a 2inch skirt to allow it to fit either size focussers. One frustrating thing though that an additional extension piece is needed to parfocalise it to the other two sizes in the t4 range which is a bit inconvenient.

as for views , it gives clear sharp views as do the delos range and I dont think there is anything between these two ranges other than the fov.

So I would ask where this would be expected to fit in your range ..... are you considering it as one of your widefield 2 inch eyepieces , or are you wanting it to fit in as a high power 1.25 ep ?????

Cheers

[moriniboy]

Hi for close up work I have BGO's 5, 6, 7 and 9 plus a 12.5mm Circle T volcano ortho.

I recently got rid of a 13mm Hyperion and find that I'm missing the wider field at that magnification when I use the 12.5 Circle T, its as simple as that.

[astronymonkey]

If its a wider field you miss then id go for the nagler and use it in the 1.25inch configuration.

[Piero]

One could argue that the Delos along with the Ethos is the next evolutionary step in eyepiece design, so should - in theory - outperform the previous generation of TV eyepieces such as Panoptics or Naglers. But the way I see it is that they're all coming from the same legendary stable, so there's probably not a lot in it, if anything, in terms of sharpness and contrast etc. I sometimes think when it comes to the next big thing - myself included - unconsciously we convince ourselves that what we now own is better than what came before without considering the job our brains do at the kindly game of self-deception .

If I were you, I'd be looking at other issues such as weight, field of view, eye-relief and the telescope's own characteristics. For example, in fast scopes the edges may just be a smidgen tighter in the Delos than the Nagler which wouldn't be surprising as we're comparing 82º to 72º. On the other hand, the Nagler is going to show a huge expanse of gorgeous night sky that the Delos simply cannot match.

Sorry to re-open this 1 year old thread, but I wanted to comment on this. 

I think Rob as a valid point on this. Optically speaking, when we talk about *better*, how much do we actually mean for it? Would everyone really perceive this *better experience*? 

In think there is a huge difference between delos/pentax and naglers. However this difference lies more in the long eye relief design rather than the optics. As consequence, the former are also heavier and bigger. 

Therefore, I think Rob is completely right when he says that an user should consider other features too, and possibly choose based on these features.

I have recently been thinking about purchasing a medium power to avoid using the barlow (which on a TV60 is quite frustrating), and the more I read about comparisons between Deloi/Pentax's and Naglers the more I feel that most of users likely convince themselves that Deloi/Pentax's are inherently better because they are somehow part of the last generation of eyepieces. With this, I am not saying that they are not better. I believe they are. However, I also believe that you need to train your eyes *sufficiently* well to catch the differences as well as to know which details to spot to in a target.

In conclusion my 2p comment:

- for most users: if eye relief is a priority and weight is not an issue, I think considering a Delos/Pentax can be a valid choice. Otherwise, I think they can be very happy with a Nagler too (and this is light, compact and offers larger fov)

- for expert users: well, they already know what they need