Embarrassing Jupiters webcam clinic

[Space Cowboy]

In my latest try last night, using 0 gamma, 10 fps and gain about 70%, I get nice contrast and colour saturation (seeing was poor though) but still get onion rings!

Chris

Sorry to hear that Chris.....that is a mystery, I've used an identical setup to yours and never had onion rings with those settings. All I can suggest is if your using sharpcap there is a histogram for exposure...make sure its filled around 60-70%.

What shutter speed were you using?

[KE400]

Thanks Stuart for taking a look, I'll try a reprocess in Castrator and Reg 6.

[chiltonstar]

I seem to have solved it now - I rang all the changes until the rings disappeared, eg last night, Io, J and Gannymede - this is about as sharp as I can get with a humble Mak 127 I suppose..

Chris

[RogerTheDodger]

That's a great pic Chris

[Space Cowboy]

Good to see you have success Chris!

[neil phillips]

I agree about the focus, but I cant seem to get a sharp image on the computer screen. I concentrate on a moon and get that as sharp as I can before turning the "The Big Guy", but I cant really see any detail and pin my hopes on processing.

The avi was set to 15 fps and recorded 1200 frames. After reading the comments in this thread I am about to try at 5 fps and record for about 2 mins. I am also trying with a faster shutter speed and gain set low.

Maybe tomorow know as the clouds have rolled in, just after I set everything up. DOH!

BTW, this a great thread for us novices. Thanks.

This is a very telling observation. that will apply to many begginers I cant really see any detail and pin my hopes on processing.

Dont do that. If the detail isnt being seen live, not a lot will pour out with processing. if only a small amount of detail is visable the processing will show something. But the trick is to figure why detail can not be seen live. In scopes of the 8 to 10" Range there is a

a whole host of reasons why the scope is not performing.

The factors that will influence this are collimation. Focussing. cooldown of the optics. Optical quality. local seeing conditions. Camera settings. Processing can be so very important, but a good avi will reveal a wealth of detail even with simple processing. These are the factors that people should look long and hard at.

I also read someone saying they wondered if a 80mm refractor would be a better bet than a 10" newt. Not in a million years. Doesnt matter if its a TAK, TV. whatever, you would need a 7" Tak to match ( or outperform ) a good 10" reflector. And even then with a more crisp contrasty image. the resolution of the 10" would still be better. But the eye likes contrast and crispness. so many might prefer the TAK version

[Space Cowboy]

Thanks for that info Neil!

Not forgetting dew on the secondary mirror of a newtonian or corrector plate of a MAK/SCT. A simple camping matt wrapped around the nose of the OTA will prevent this problem for a good couple of hours. Hair driers are also very useful for clearing any moisture.

[x6gas]

Thanks for this terrific thread. Just waiting for a clear night to try out the recommended settings (10 f/p, zero gamma, gain above 50% - must confess that before reading this I had been keeping the gain low for fear of introducing noise...)

Anyway, I have a couple of questions.

Assuming my SPC900 is equivalent to a 5-6 mm EP, my 2800 mm f/l 'scope is producing magnification of somewhere around x450-550. The handbook with my scope quotes a highest useable magnification of x660 and I have read elsewhere on here that in the UK seeing limits magnification to around x200. Now obviously, the point of webcaming is to take enough frames to capture a few good uns, which I guess means I can forget to some extent about the seeing limitation, so here's the question: If I 2 x barlow my set-up (making it f/20 which seems OK) the magnification will be nearly twice the highest useable magnification mentioned in the 'scopes handbook. Will that be OK?

Second, I have a Ceslestron ultima x2 barlow - will that be good enough to get good results with my set up?

Thanks in advance!

[Space Cowboy]

Sounds like you have a very good setup there and certainly the 2x Ultima will produce very good results. Observing limitations are very different to imaging. You could in theory get very good results up to f40 with Jupiter though f25-30 is the best general fl unless seeing is very good. F20 is a good place to start for sure.

[neil phillips]

Ok your 2800mm focal length with a 2x barlow will be 5600. its possible in the uk to shoot at double that figure. i wouldnt recommend it if your first starting. But its possible. who ever makes claims that seeing limits mag to about 200x in the uk must be talking about visual. Because im certainly way over that figure. and getting reasonable results. with a c11 you should experiment with the 2x barlow. then maybe add tubes teo lengthen the barlow for more power. or try a 3x barlow. im sure Stuart would agree its a good starting plan. me i would push the C11 probably with a 4x barlow. But then Maybe my local seeing is better than average. just looked at stuarts advice. great minds think alike

[x6gas]

Thanks Chaps.

I'm sure I speak for many new to planetary imaging when I say that the time you put into helping us newbies out is really appreciated and helps us make the most of the clear nights.

Cheers!

[tiredboy]

First time trying to image jupiter last week and managed the attached. Taken using the 2x flip barlow. If anyone wants to have a copy of the AVI file and see what they can do then let me know, I'd love to see what is possible by someone who knows what they are gdoing with the software!

A few questions:

1) Why is the image B&W (it may be something as simple as a B&W checkbox I didn't realise)?

2) What is the best I can expect from my setup?

[Stargazer Jack]

For the image above, did you use the wavelets section after stacking on registax? If you didn't then try it again however don't go over the top

[tiredboy]

I think I did but it was picking numbers, not a systamatic approach. I'll go back to the AVI and try again.

On another note, is ther a point above which getting more frames isn't going to help?

[Space Cowboy]

What camera settings did you use?

[mindburner]

just had a go last night.Jupiter was only visible for an hour or 2 before cloud ended the evening. I was using sharpcap with a 12" goto dob. It was difficult to get the image to stay in picture but not as bad as I had feared. I tried a 2x barlow but it became almost impossible. Jupiters cloud bands appeared nicely but I could not see the moons,unless I increased exposure, but then Jupiter was iike a lighthouse

I found the exposure setting needed to be around -10 or else Jupiter was too bright/dim. Is this a good setting? or should I be altering other settings.(gain was about 70, Brightness and Contrast about 60) I couldn't see a shutter speed setting on sharpcap

I will post up the results tonight when I'm home.

Tried registax last night but it was late and I just realized that I didn't select a good frame before processing! just kept hitting the green buttons:)

many thanks for such a great post. I'm having fun

[tonyowen]

Help please.

Last night I got images of Jupiter and three moons but there is no detail on Jupiter it's just a white ball/blob.

From SharpCap I get the following data:

[Philips ToUcam Pro Camera; Video]

Resolution=640x480

Frame Rate (fps)=10.00

Colour Space / Compression=I420

Exposure=-4

Brightness=121

Contrast=28

Saturation=-32

Gamma=14

ColorEnable=255

BacklightCompensation=0

Gain=63

The set exposure 'speed' was 1/25th s

Decreasing gain lost the moons (on the computer screen)

What is the relationship between the exposure speed setting and the gain setting in terms of resulting image detail?

Telescope details, BCF refractor, 75mm obj, 1220fl, spc880nc webcam, no barlow attached, hand guided. Only the SharpCap white balance setting is auto. SharpCap running on Vista laptop

I used VirtualDub to remove the really bad frames and ran the remainder through Registax 5.1

The images posted by others in these fori mean I'm obviously missing something important - but what is it (are they)

I'm very confused and welcome all and any responses

regards

Tony Owen

reg5imagedub01.tif

reg5imagedob02.tif

[tiredboy]

What camera settings did you use?

Oops. Can't remember. just played around until it looked best on the screen. Will try again on a clear night with some of the settings suggested earlier in the thread. On that note, does having a "fast" or "slow" scope affect the settings you should use regarding gamma, gain, frame rate etc?

[mindburner]

here is a registax effort on last nights Jupiter viewing. Came out ok, but needs a bit of work on colour and general noise

[Philips SPC 900NC PC Camera]

Brightness=74

Contrast=51

Saturation=59

Gamma=0

ColorEnable=255

BacklightCompensation=0

Gain=47

Exposure=-9

Resolution=640x480

Frame Rate (fps)=10.00

Colour Space / Compression=I420

good1.tif

[rightguard]

200 newt and a neximage with 2x barlow. any more magnifying and it loses quality fast. would an ir filter help at all? is this near the limit for neximage cams? any other suggestions? was looking at colour dmk's for a couple of hundred - will the image drastically improve? thanks for any help

*edit* taken with the raw mod at 5fps and colourised with aviraw

[mindburner]

another one from tonight

[tonyowen]

here is a registax effort on last nights Jupiter viewing. Came out ok, but needs a bit of work on colour and general noise

Following my earlier asking for help posting I'm still trying to understand why I get a white disk and others get a detailed Jupiter

The following two {Mindburner's and mine} columns of settings are not grossly different . [i hope the columns remain separate when this is submitted since in the preview they close up]

Mindburner Tony Owen

Brightness=74 121

Contrast=51 28

Saturation=59 -32

Gamma=0 14

Gain=47 63

Exposure=-9 -4

So why do I not get a Jupiter with details?

Is it because of the small telescope 75mm obj 1200mmfl?

Is it because I do not have a IR/UV filter fitted in the webcam?

Viewing the whole of this thread it seems that gamma should not exceed 50% and that gain should be between 1 and 10% OR (alternatively) gamma should be 0 and gain not exceeding 50%

How do the quoted percentages compare with the integer values above?

All help and comments anxiously awaited.

regards

Tony Owen

[premiercounty]

Hi all

My first post here !

My 1st attempt at Jupiter imaging is attached

My set up for this shot

Meade 2080 8" SCT (old scope but has RA tracking)

Phillips SPC 900NC PC Camera

Registax 5 for post processing

My question is how to improve for more detail ?

I tried a 3 * barlow but the magnification was too much and it didnt work out too well.

Perhaps a 2 * barlow ?

Also would a crayford focusser be any help ?

I find that the focussing is somewhat difficult and could do with being finer.

Thanks

[rightguard]

here is a registax effort on last nights Jupiter viewing. Came out ok, but needs a bit of work on colour and general noise

Following my earlier asking for help posting I'm still trying to understand why I get a white disk and others get a detailed Jupiter

The following two {Mindburner's and mine} columns of settings are not grossly different . [i hope the columns remain separate when this is submitted since in the preview they close up]

Mindburner Tony Owen

Brightness=74 121

Contrast=51 28

Saturation=59 -32

Gamma=0 14

Gain=47 63

Exposure=-9 -4

So why do I not get a Jupiter with details?

Is it because of the small telescope 75mm obj 1200mmfl?

Is it because I do not have a IR/UV filter fitted in the webcam?

Viewing the whole of this thread it seems that gamma should not exceed 50% and that gain should be between 1 and 10% OR (alternatively) gamma should be 0 and gain not exceeding 50%

How do the quoted percentages compare with the integer values above?

All help and comments anxiously awaited.

regards

Tony Owen

both images are far too overexposed - easy to see this cos all youve got is a ball of white light! also dont turn contrast up too much as this will cause a similar effect sometimes. play with the exposure times ,brightness, gamma and gain until you get a reasonable image on your laptop screen. you will get there eventually!!

[mindburner]

here is a registax effort on last nights Jupiter viewing. Came out ok, but needs a bit of work on colour and general noise

Following my earlier asking for help posting I'm still trying to understand why I get a white disk and others get a detailed Jupiter

The following two {Mindburner's and mine} columns of settings are not grossly different . [i hope the columns remain separate when this is submitted since in the preview they close up]

Mindburner Tony Owen

Brightness=74 121

Contrast=51 28

Saturation=59 -32

Gamma=0 14

Gain=47 63

Exposure=-9 -4

So why do I not get a Jupiter with details?

Is it because of the small telescope 75mm obj 1200mmfl?

Is it because I do not have a IR/UV filter fitted in the webcam?

Viewing the whole of this thread it seems that gamma should not exceed 50% and that gain should be between 1 and 10% OR (alternatively) gamma should be 0 and gain not exceeding 50%

How do the quoted percentages compare with the integer values above?

All help and comments anxiously awaited.

regards

Tony Owen

hi if found that if i drop the exposure down to-10 or 11 it makes a big difference from searchlight to detailed planet.This was the big breakthrough for me