Embarrassing Jupiters webcam clinic

[Space Cowboy]

here is a registax effort on last nights Jupiter viewing. Came out ok, but needs a bit of work on colour and general noise

Following my earlier asking for help posting I'm still trying to understand why I get a white disk and others get a detailed Jupiter

The following two {Mindburner's and mine} columns of settings are not grossly different . [i hope the columns remain separate when this is submitted since in the preview they close up]

Mindburner Tony Owen

Brightness=74 121

Contrast=51 28

Saturation=59 -32

Gamma=0 14

Gain=47 63

Exposure=-9 -4

So why do I not get a Jupiter with details?

Is it because of the small telescope 75mm obj 1200mmfl?

Is it because I do not have a IR/UV filter fitted in the webcam?

Viewing the whole of this thread it seems that gamma should not exceed 50% and that gain should be between 1 and 10% OR (alternatively) gamma should be 0 and gain not exceeding 50%

How do the quoted percentages compare with the integer values above?

All help and comments anxiously awaited.

regards

Tony Owen

Sorry bit late responding to you all. Tony your images are over exposed, make sure auto exposure is un checked and then only adjust Gain, Gamma and Exposure. Leave all the other settings on the default setting. You've confused what I've been saying about Gain and Gamma. Gain should be above 50% and Gamma 0 or certainly no more than 10%. I can't say what number to use on Sharpcap as I've not used it that often so just judge it by the slider so make sure its over half way to the right for Gain.

Sharpcap has a Histogram to show the exposure level (think its on drop down menu along top). Make sure the Histogram "mountain" is 60-70% to the right by adjusting the exposure setting. Obviously if Jupiters is burnt out in the centre then ease back with the exposure setting.

Yes you need a IR/UV filter but that will make a subtle improvement.

[Space Cowboy]

just had a go last night.Jupiter was only visible for an hour or 2 before cloud ended the evening. I was using sharpcap with a 12" goto dob. It was difficult to get the image to stay in picture but not as bad as I had feared. I tried a 2x barlow but it became almost impossible. Jupiters cloud bands appeared nicely but I could not see the moons,unless I increased exposure, but then Jupiter was iike a lighthouse

I found the exposure setting needed to be around -10 or else Jupiter was too bright/dim. Is this a good setting? or should I be altering other settings.(gain was about 70, Brightness and Contrast about 60) I couldn't see a shutter speed setting on sharpcap

I will post up the results tonight when I'm home.

Tried registax last night but it was late and I just realized that I didn't select a good frame before processing! just kept hitting the green buttons:)

many thanks for such a great post. I'm having fun

Excellent images you are doing great! As I've said to Tony the best way of judging exposure level in sharpcap is by using the Histogram.

[Space Cowboy]

Oops. Can't remember. just played around until it looked best on the screen. Will try again on a clear night with some of the settings suggested earlier in the thread. On that note, does having a "fast" or "slow" scope affect the settings you should use regarding gamma, gain, frame rate etc?

Fast or Slow the setting principles are all the same.

[Space Cowboy]

200 newt and a neximage with 2x barlow. any more magnifying and it loses quality fast. would an ir filter help at all? is this near the limit for neximage cams? any other suggestions? was looking at colour dmk's for a couple of hundred - will the image drastically improve? thanks for any help

*edit* taken with the raw mod at 5fps and colourised with aviraw

Thats a nice little image. Your cam and scope are capable of much more before you need to pay lots of dosh on a dmk. Use 10fps, make sure your scope is well collimated. Yes a IR/UV filter is needed. Lots of practice and you will get there. With your 200 scope you should be able to use a 4 or 5x barlow in the future (with enough experience).

DMKs and DBKs are better but they are not a magic wand. User experience is the biggest image improver.

Well cooled collimated scope and Jupiter at over 40 degrees. All these factors need to be in place.

[rightguard]

thanks stuart. will look at proper barlows as i only have cheap ones and i suspect they degrade the image too much.

[mindburner]

Excellent images you are doing great! As I've said to Tony the best way of judging exposure level in sharpcap is by using the Histogram.

many thanks will check that in future. I think if I could get better lock on the 300p I could use my meade 2x barlow and get a bigger image and possibly better focus too. I just don't think the mount will hack it. Also just realised that I may be able to add my antares IR filter to the webcam nose piece.

Dreaming of an EQ mount that can take the 300p flextube

[Space Cowboy]

thanks stuart. will look at proper barlows as i only have cheap ones and i suspect they degrade the image too much.

Barlows don't need to be mega expensive for planetary imaging. A 3x Tal would be a good purchase but they are like hens teeth at the moment. if you've got the standard 2x skywatcher barlow (or any 2x barlow where the lens unscrews) this can be used as an extension tube to give an extra 1.5x on top of say a 2x or 3x barlow.

[Space Cowboy]

many thanks will check that in future. I think if I could get better lock on the 300p I could use my meade 2x barlow and get a bigger image and possibly better focus too. I just don't think the mount will hack it. Also just realised that I may be able to add my antares IR filter to the webcam nose piece.

Dreaming of an EQ mount that can take the 300p flextube

Still having tracking problems? Did you check those Dob tracking links I gave you? Have you tried a counterweight or adjusting the tension nut? My scope has always tracked fine in AZ its just been the Alt tracking which appears to be because the scope is nose heavy and needs a counter weight. (I've added over 2kg to the primary end and its helped a lot with Alt drift).

[Space Cowboy]

Hi all

My first post here !

My 1st attempt at Jupiter imaging is attached

My set up for this shot

Meade 2080 8" SCT (old scope but has RA tracking)

Phillips SPC 900NC PC Camera

Registax 5 for post processing

My question is how to improve for more detail ?

I tried a 3 * barlow but the magnification was too much and it didnt work out too well.

Perhaps a 2 * barlow ?

Also would a crayford focusser be any help ?

I find that the focussing is somewhat difficult and could do with being finer.

Thanks

Welcome to the forum!

If your scope is f10 then 3X barlow should be fine but a 2x would be easier to use until you've got more imaging experience. Good effort with your image! Looks like it needs auto rgb balance selecting in Registax wavelets page to correct the yellow appearance. Make sure you have Gain set above 50% and gamma 0 as I can see some onion rings which this setting will prevent (your image needs more exposure). If you are using Sharpcap set the histogram to 60-70% should give your image enough luminance.

You will probably find focusing is easier with a brighter image. (careful not to burn out the center).Focus on the moons if you can.

[tonyowen]

Sorry bit late responding to you all. Tony your images are over exposed,

Sharpcap has a Histogram to show the exposure level

Yes you need a IR/UV filter but that will make a subtle improvement.

Stuart,

many thanks for the very full response.

However, using the histogram and altering the various settings (this evening) were to no avail. I got either the "search light" Jupiter or very fuzzy and muddy images!

Based upon my previous images of Jupiter's moons I believe that my telescope's focus is reasonable correct.

I have seen comments recommending apertures of f20 or smaller [eg f30].

My setup of 75mm obj and 1200mm fl yields f16 -would this (partially) explain my predicament ?

Does my telescope's small image size (sans barlow) negate getting planetary detail?

Using a 2x barlow gives me f32 and a larger image. BUT in this configuration I have extreme difficulty resolving the Jovian image on my computer screen OR even finding the image.

Sometimes even increasing gain and brightness to their maxima does not reveal any image!! Yet removing the barlow gives me Jupiter immediately.

As an aside, using my setup for terrestrial and lunar imaging gives reasonable scenic detail.

Any and all suggestions welcome

regards

Tony

[mindburner]

Still having tracking problems? Did you check those Dob tracking links I gave you? Have you tried a counterweight or adjusting the tension nut? My scope has always tracked fine in AZ its just been the Alt tracking which appears to be because the scope is nose heavy and needs a counter weight. (I've added over 2kg to the primary end and its helped a lot with Alt drift).

hi yes a little bit. Its more the sheer speed of a magnified Jupiter across the laptop screen with the barlow. I had a look at the posts which were very informative. I was a little hesitant to start adjusting the scope too much. I will check into the weights as I think this could help.

[Space Cowboy]

Stuart,

many thanks for the very full response.

However, using the histogram and altering the various settings (this evening) were to no avail. I got either the "search light" Jupiter or very fuzzy and muddy images!

Based upon my previous images of Jupiter's moons I believe that my telescope's focus is reasonable correct.

I have seen comments recommending apertures of f20 or smaller [eg f30].

My setup of 75mm obj and 1200mm fl yields f16 -would this (partially) explain my predicament ?

Does my telescope's small image size (sans barlow) negate getting planetary detail?

Using a 2x barlow gives me f32 and a larger image. BUT in this configuration I have extreme difficulty resolving the Jovian image on my computer screen OR even finding the image.

Sometimes even increasing gain and brightness to their maxima does not reveal any image!! Yet removing the barlow gives me Jupiter immediately.

As an aside, using my setup for terrestrial and lunar imaging gives reasonable scenic detail.

Any and all suggestions welcome

regards

Tony

Your scope being small in aperture will for sure restrict detail but you should clearly see the main bands of Jupiter and in good seeing the GRS too. If you are getting an overexposed image then its got to be camera settings causing this. f32 is ok for good seeing but when its poor then you will struggle. Make sure you image Jupiter when its well over 30 degrees (ideally over 40 degrees).

[tonyowen]

Stuart, many thanks for your reply and tolerance of my questioning.

Your comments, and the exposure observations from "mindburner", have ruled out factors that I thought might be causing the poor images. - The problem is me!!!

To reduce causes of errors/poor imaging I'll get an uv/ir filter and will persist with more critical focussing and better exposure.

Your comment about the inclination (?? wrong word, but you know what I mean) is valid as I have tended to use the telescope no more that 30 arc degrees above the horizon.

regards and thanks

Tony

[Stargazer Jack]

I will be imaging Jupiter tonight but need some help. Last time I imaged and processed it, the result was bad because of onion rings. Does anyone know how to get rid of them? Is it to do with a setting when imaging?

[JB80]

Here is one of mine from last night, taken with sharpcap and SPC 900. It was tracked but with no barlow. Any tips on how to improve would be appreciated.

The wxastrocapture one didn't take well to being run through castrator which is a shame because wx seems to give a bigger image but it came out all pixelated and I think the original avi was better but that one wasn't tracked.

[tonyowen]

Your scope being small in aperture will for sure restrict detail but you should clearly see the main bands of Jupiter and in good seeing the GRS too. If you are getting an overexposed image then its got to be camera settings causing this. f32 is ok for good seeing but when its poor then you will struggle. Make sure you image Jupiter when its well over 30 degrees (ideally over 40 degrees).

Eureka

Last night I managed to get an image of Jupiter that showed some detail. (75mm obj, 1200 fl, f16 without barlow)

I used Registax v5.1 and the a lot of jiggery pokery with PS Elements to combine last night's images into a composite that shows (from left to right Callisto, Io, Jupiter, Europe and Ganymede.

Hopefully when I get the ir/uv filter (and a lot more practice) the images will be better.

Comments welcome

regards to all

Tony

pshoppeddub06.tif

[stargazerlily]

This image was taken last night at about 10pm using a SW150PL with a x2 Barlow, Phillips 880 flashed web cam and captured using SharpCap. I use a SW remote control focuser

Camera settings:

Exposure -7

Gain 0

Gamma 0

Contrast 63%

Brightness 102%

Saturation 100

640x480 format at 10 FPS

Compression YUY2

Video length 52 seconds

I didn't do anything special in RegiStax 5.1 ... just pressed all the default buttons.

Many thanks

Pete

[JB80]

That's not bad considering gain was set at zero, you should really have that much higher, I'd drop the exposure a bit more and push the gain right up. Also a couple of minutes of avi is always better than less.

But considering I'm using the same setup but without the focuser and I haven't whacked a barlow in yet, your pic is very promising.

It makes me think that my pic above is out of focus a bit. Although it just dawned on me what I might be doing wrong here.

[DrRobin]

Hi,

Just to throw in my 5 pennies worth. I used a modified MS Lifecam, 1200x800 at 10 fps with a Televue 3x barlow and a SK 10" flex tube to get the picture shown below.

It was taken at 21:27 on Tues 1st Nov and is 1800 frames (1730 stacked) with Registax 5. For some reason I can't get Reg 6 to work correctly.

The image on the left is the full frame and shows IO to the left. The frame to the right is just an elargement.

[Space Cowboy]

I will be imaging Jupiter tonight but need some help. Last time I imaged and processed it, the result was bad because of onion rings. Does anyone know how to get rid of them? Is it to do with a setting when imaging?

Onion rings are caused by either gamma being too high, gain being too low or using 20fps with the spc 880/900 webcam which causes video compression.

Set gamma to 0, gain over 50% and use 10fps and you should no longer suffer onion rings.

[Space Cowboy]

Here is one of mine from last night, taken with sharpcap and SPC 900. It was tracked but with no barlow. Any tips on how to improve would be appreciated.

The wxastrocapture one didn't take well to being run through castrator which is a shame because wx seems to give a bigger image but it came out all pixelated and I think the original avi was better but that one wasn't tracked.

Have you got the camera settings used they should be in the sharpcap folder along with the avi.

[Space Cowboy]

This image was taken last night at about 10pm using a SW150PL with a x2 Barlow, Phillips 880 flashed web cam and captured using SharpCap. I use a SW remote control focuser

Camera settings:

Exposure -7

Gain 0

Gamma 0

Contrast 63%

Brightness 102%

Saturation 100

640x480 format at 10 FPS

Compression YUY2

Video length 52 seconds

I didn't do anything special in RegiStax 5.1 ... just pressed all the default buttons.

Many thanks

Pete

Nice image. Gain should be over 50% so you have a brighter image. There is a exposure histogram on sharpcap make sure its around 70% filled.

[Space Cowboy]

Hi,

Just to throw in my 5 pennies worth. I used a modified MS Lifecam, 1200x800 at 10 fps with a Televue 3x barlow and a SK 10" flex tube to get the picture shown below.

It was taken at 21:27 on Tues 1st Nov and is 1800 frames (1730 stacked) with Registax 5. For some reason I can't get Reg 6 to work correctly.

The image on the left is the full frame and shows IO to the left. The frame to the right is just an elargement.

Better colour balance on those Robin! Have you downloaded the bug fix on reg 6 there is an update on the registax webpage.

Seeing was terrible that night especially before 10pm if you can catch Jupiter when its over 40 degrees more detail should come through. Personally i'm rather skeptical of the lifecams abilities compared to the spc900 with it not having separate gain and gamma settings the images never seem to have much contrast.

[DrRobin]

Hi Stuart,

I think I have the latest version of Reg 6. I downloaded it and installed it anyway. What happens is it selects about 70 to 80 alignments points, goes through okay and then when it stacks the image at the end has black rectangles on it or just complete garbage. I don't seem to be able to get it to stack correctly, looking throught the release notes I am not sure if this has been raised or fixed.

I actually thought the seeing was best around 9pm. By 10pm I had swapped to the 5x Power Mate, but when I went back to the 3x TV it didn't look as clear as an hour previously.

I packed up soon after 10pm, but took the dog out for a walk later and noticed quite a haze (dew) in the air. That's up in Newcastle, it may have been different where you are?

Not sure about the Lifecam, you certainly don't get as many controls to fiddle with as an SPC900, I think next time I will try both and just to capture Jupiter and all the moons I think I will try the Atik as well.

I will send the results though for your seasoned eye. Great thread by the way, will/are you doing another for Saturn?

[Stargazer Jack]

After the Philips webcam, what would the next best planetary for a reasonable price?