Embarrassing Jupiters webcam clinic

[Rapallokid]

Many thanks i will try that and see how i get on.

[r3i]

Normally spend my time imaging DSOs but because of the bright Moon at the weekend, I decided to see what my new AA8RC would be like for planetary imaging. The effort below is from a 1 minute capture using a flashed ToUcam Pro II and a Meade 5000 3x TeleXtender (giving F24 with the AA8RC). Processed in Registax 5. Only came across this thread after I'd packed up and I now know I got a few of the webcam settings wrong - it looks like it has that 'onion ring' effect for starters.

But I was quite pleased with this first result considering I wasn't totally sure what I was doing. Must try again with the recommended settings given in this thread - it's been an excellent read and the results that people are getting are impressive.

[Space Cowboy]

Hi,

there is a huge amount of information within this thred and i will work my way through the various posts and see if i can piece together enough to get me started. I took some images ( towards the beginner end of the scale) last week and have a lot of work to do. I was using sharpcap and took still images, ok but when i tried using the start capture all i recorded was a bright green screen, split in two with a mirrored image?

Any suggestions welcome, and thanks for a great thred.

Rapallokid.

What camera are you using?

[Space Cowboy]

Normally spend my time imaging DSOs but because of the bright Moon at the weekend, I decided to see what my new AA8RC would be like for planetary imaging. The effort below is from a 1 minute capture using a flashed ToUcam Pro II and a Meade 5000 3x TeleXtender (giving F24 with the AA8RC). Processed in Registax 5. Only came across this thread after I'd packed up and I now know I got a few of the webcam settings wrong - it looks like it has that 'onion ring' effect for starters.

But I was quite pleased with this first result considering I wasn't totally sure what I was doing. Must try again with the recommended settings given in this thread - it's been an excellent read and the results that people are getting are impressive.

Very good first attempt glad you are finding the thread useful. Lack of frames seems to be the main problem with your image as its very noisy. Try 3-4 mins video next time so you can stack the best 500-1000 frames.

[DrRobin]

Hi,

My DFK arrived yesterday, it looks a serious piece of kit. I haven't had chance to try it on a scope, had a fiddle with the lens cap off and still trying to work out the best mod to shoot in.

I think Y800 without debaying, then select debaying in Registax, is that right?

It appears to do 30 fps without debaying and only 15 with, but that might be my slow PC.

I went back and looked at my Lifecam frame rate, most of the AVIs I took last week were at 10 fps. It appears that it will only do 30 fps in MPEG mode, which I assume is lossy?

Even more remarkable that my longest avi was over 1,800 frames so morecthan 3 minutes and Juptier hardly moved on a 3x Barlow.

[TheThing]

Getting there!

Only second time out with my OMC, so I'm still getting ued to it. Much better results so far - no Barlow yet. 2 mins AVi stacked in Registax.

[Space Cowboy]

Hi,

My DFK arrived yesterday, it looks a serious piece of kit. I haven't had chance to try it on a scope, had a fiddle with the lens cap off and still trying to work out the best mod to shoot in.

I think Y800 without debaying, then select debaying in Registax, is that right?

It appears to do 30 fps without debaying and only 15 with, but that might be my slow PC.

I went back and looked at my Lifecam frame rate, most of the AVIs I took last week were at 10 fps. It appears that it will only do 30 fps in MPEG mode, which I assume is lossy?

Even more remarkable that my longest avi was over 1,800 frames so morecthan 3 minutes and Juptier hardly moved on a 3x Barlow.

Yep y800 for debayering in reg.

Did you install the microsoft driver for the lifecam as I recall reading that this will slow the frame rate.

[DrRobin]

Hi Stuart,

Thanks for the advice on the DFK settings. I eventually found a note on the IS forum which gives the same advice, so next clear night a mega test of DFK v Lifecam v SPC coming up.

I didn't load the MS driver for the Lifecam for the reason you stayed. Actually when you first install the software it installs the driver that you then have to uninstall. Every time I connected the camera and the PC is on the web it used to prompt to download the new driver, but it appears to have stopped now.

[malc-c]

I'll stick my 2p worth in

It bugs me that it seldom all comes together... On this occasion seeing must of been ideal as focus, even with two 2x barlows was sharp enough to get the image below. The drawback was having gain slightly too low and capturing at 20 fps.... result... Onion Rings !

Now, when I try to repeat that, and with gain and frame rate increased the sky seems too bubbly to get decent focus...

The thing is, looking back to when I first started back in February, I have improved on my image results... so for all those first timers in this thread keep at it and don't be afraid to try different settings, and experiment with barlows etc. It's all fun, and part of the learning curve

[DrRobin]

Hi Malc,

Hey that is very good, shame about the onion rings but if you zoom out a bit you can't see them. Nice shot of one of the moons too.

I started with a Mak 127 in January (upgraded in March) and thought it was great that you could get good photos with a cheap webcam, then like you I realised that everything has to be right to get good pictures and you need a lot of patience.

I decided to reduce the number of unknows and improve my kit to maximise my viewing/imaging time. Some would say that I haven't given some of my kit enough time to get good results but I have spent most of the summer trying to get my scope tracking correctly and I just want to get something decent out of it now.

[r3i]

Very good first attempt glad you are finding the thread useful. Lack of frames seems to be the main problem with your image as its very noisy. Try 3-4 mins video next time so you can stack the best 500-1000 frames.

Stuart: thanks for the advice, will try a longer sequence next time.

It bugs me that it seldom all comes together... On this occasion seeing must of been ideal as focus, even with two 2x barlows was sharp enough to get the image below. The drawback was having gain slightly too low and capturing at 20 fps.... result... Onion Rings !

Malc: That's a fine image, I'd be over the moon if I got one like that.

[malc-c]

Robin, thanks for the comments.

Here's the result from processing another avi captured last night this time with a Celestron NexImage. Again, focus seems to be my nemesis

Maybe I'll try waiting a little later in the evening, when Jupiter is higher and due South, where hopefully the air will be less turbulent.

Malc: That's a fine image, I'd be over the moon if I got one like that.

Thanks.... maybe I'm getting too critical ?

[dag123]

Hi, here is my first proper attempt at taking a picture of Jupiter. I'm not counting the first attempt a couple of weeks ago when I was first installing and testing my Phillips SPC webcam (kit from Morgans). The first is what Registax produced before I messed with the wavelets settings, the other is after some messing about.

I was using my Celestron Astromaster 130 EQ (no motor, I just left Jupiter drift across the screen, Celestron 2xbarlow (from my EP kit) and the Phillips SPC900 webcam.

On the auto-settings jupiter was far too bright. I ended up with the shutter set to 1/100, gain=4, bright=29, gam=48, ffs=25. I picked these as i could then see the two main bands on the laptop screen. My AVi was about 300 frames.

I first used Castrator to crop and centre the planet and then loaded that into Registax. I left the settings as defaults and aligned and stacked.

As a first attempt I am quite proud of it, but from seeing what others have produced with similar equipment I have some catching up.

My first question is why is there no colour? When I look at Jupiter with an EP I do see colour, but on the wxAstroCapture screen it all looks black&white. I am guessing I must have missed some obvious setting somewhere?????

dag123

[DrRobin]

Hi,

Malc, another good picture. With a Large Barlow it is always difficult to get a sharp picture unless the seeing is very good. I have a TV 3x and a TV 5x, the 5x seldom produces more detail than the 3x, even though I am getting more pixels.

With my Mak I found focus very difficult and eventually bought a motor focus which was great. I am currently making a USB focuser for my 250 flex tube which will hopefully improve the focus on that scope, although with a 10:1 focuser from Modern Astronomy it's pretty good.

Dag, I think the reason your images are B&W is the settings, was it really 1/100th or 1/10th?. Try a little more gain and less brightness, I think that will give you a little more colour. I use Sharpcap and usually use less brightness and quite a bit less Gamma with an SPC, colour on Jupiter is usually fine.

[malc-c]

Hi,

Malc, another good picture. With a Large Barlow it is always difficult to get a sharp picture unless the seeing is very good. I have a TV 3x and a TV 5x, the 5x seldom produces more detail than the 3x, even though I am getting more pixels.

With my Mak I found focus very difficult and eventually bought a motor focus which was great. I am currently making a USB focuser for my 250 flex tube which will hopefully improve the focus on that scope, although with a 10:1 focuser from Modern Astronomy it's pretty good.

Cheers... I'm currently stacking two 2x barlows, one of which came with the scope (SW) - I think all the glass between the image and sensor can't be helping either.. Time to put a decent 3x barlow on the Christmas wishlist

[dag123]

Just to confirm, my setting was 1/100th, I took a screen shot as a record.

Just have to wait from the clouds to go and I can try again.

[DrRobin]

Hi,

Dag, I have never managed to get 1/100th out of my SPC and suspect it's a little too fast to record colour correctly. Try reducing the exposure a little and compensate with gain and contrast. If your capture software has a histogram try using this to get the exposure, gain and contrast right.

In terms of importance it's generally exposure and gain you should set first, then adjust the contrast to to get a pleasing image.

Malc, I have a Televue 3x, a Televue 5x Powermate and an Astro 2.5x. I have also tried 2x and 5x by other manufacturers. The tele 3x is by far the best I have ever used. Whilst the 5x gives me a bigger image I think it's power is just too great except for the odd night where seeing is perfect. The Astro 2.5 is good but gives me nearer 2x than 2.5x.

If I had to recommend one Barlow get the TV 3x and an extension tube for when the seeing is really good and boost it to 4x or 5x. It's a good deal cheaper than the 5x and will get 10 times the use.

[malc-c]

Robin, thanks for the suggestion. Another thing to add to my Christmas list

[Space Cowboy]

Malcolm you can use your SW barlow as an extension tube with the lens unscrewed. The 3x Tal are very good too though rare as hens teeth at the moment. Good advice from Robin.

Dag123 if you use Sharpcap or vxastrocapture to capture avis you can use the exposure histogram. Basically you want Gain over 50%, gamma at 0 and 10fps (any faster and video compression can cause ringing). Set shutter speed so that the histogram is around 70% full. Leave brightness at default as this does not effect capture only live view. Make sure saturation is at least 70%.

[x6gas]

OK, so here are my latest Jupiters. I think over processed, but I'd welcome comments on how to improve with my set-up. Captured using Sharp-Cap, seeing moderate, transparency poorish. I don't have an IR filter on my SPC880 and I hear that this can cause focussing probs. Should I get one and is there much difference if I spend a tenner or 30 quid?

Thanks in advance!

All images - Resolution=640x480; Frame Rate (fps)=5.00; Colour Space / Compression=YUY2; Brightness=52; Contrast=32; Saturation=69

First image:

Exposure=-10

Gamma=0

Gain=44

Next two:

Exposure=-8

Gamma=7

Gain=23

Next one:

Exposure=-6

Gamma=0

Gain=24

Final two:

Exposure=-8

Gamma=0

Gain=23

[DrRobin]

Hi,

They look pretty good to me. I bought a 10 quid IR filter from Morgan for my SPC and after trying the camera in daylight with and without the filter there is a huge difference, so I am assuming that you would see some benefit with a 10 quid filter.

Without the filter the images were very orange, can be corrected by colour balance and the IR does cause focus errors as it focuses at a differnet point, how much this be I couldn't say.

[malc-c]

Malcolm you can use your SW barlow as an extension tube with the lens unscrewed.

Interesting.. I'll give that a go next time we get a gap in the weather

[tonyowen]

OK, so here are my latest Jupiters.

First image: Next two: Next one: Final two:

How do you count your images by row or column?

I'm trying to match your setting with the images to aid my own efforts.

regards

Tony

[DrRobin]

Hi Malc,

I have heard that the TAL barlows are good, went to try and buy one but found they were out of stock. There was/is a 2x TAL on Astrobuysell for £20, I think, seems a good deal if you need one.

I tried the SW barlow with the lens removed, worked very well as an extension tube, but it went when I sold my Mak.

[x6gas]

How do you count your images by row or column?

I'm trying to match your setting with the images to aid my own efforts.

regards

Tony

Ah sorry, I guess it depends on screen resolution and zoom factor but basically the first image is top left and the sixth image is bottom right. You should be able to see that the second and third image are the same with different processing (but Jupiter is same place in the frame); like wise the fifth and sixth images are from the same data with different application of wavelets in RegiStax 6.

Really interested in which ones people like most to help my processing and any suggestions for improvment of the underlying data capture.

Thanks, Ian