8” or 10” dobsonian

[Adam Print]

Hi. I’ve been using a Omni 102 refractor for a while and want to start looking further afield. I’m looking at the Stellalyra Dobs and I'm not sure whether to go for the 8 or 10 inch. Does anyone have any opinions on the best option? 

[Beardy30]

Without doubt if you can lift it and store it go for 10”

[Second Time Around]

As you probably know, Dobsonians consist of the base plus the optical tube assembly (OTA).  Whether you have a 6, 8 or 10 inch Dob the footprint and weight of the base is little different.  It's the OTA where there's a significant difference in weight.

I have a disability and found that of the commercial Dobs I could handle 1 size bigger with the Bresser models by carrying the OTA by the altitude ring that the Bresser incorporates in its mounting.

In fact, I did head to head tests of the Bresser, Skywatcher and GSO (the Stella Lyra is a rebadged GSO) in telescope shops.

The clear winner for me was the Bresser.  The mounting (something very expensive to upgrade unless you make your own) is both smoother and easier to balance.  The focuser was better too, although single speed - an add on upgrade to double speed is available although not essential.

If I hadn't found a used OOUK I'd have bought the 10 inch Bresser.

The only downside of the Bresser is that it's slightly more expensive than the competition, especially if the finder is upgraded to a RACI and the focuser to double speed.

Not so now!  Gas Giant posted that Bresser themselves are having a sale of this model on eBay and have reduced the price from £687 down to £476 including carriage.  In fact, it's now less expensive than their 8 inch model.  Go to https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/165991965422?mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=710-53481-19255-0&campid=5338365712&toolid=20006&customid=EB175159625&  With this huge reduction this represents a fabulous bargain!

I just hope they're not going to discontinue them.

 

Edited January 13 by Second Time Around

[Orange Smartie]

I have the Stella Lyra 10". If lifting and carrying might be an issue, I'd see if you can look at one before committing.

Edited to say that that Bresser looks like fantastic value.

Edited January 13 by Orange Smartie

[Mr Spock]

There's no doubt the StellaLyra options have excellent optics. They are well equipped too. I have a 12" and can manage to move it from the shed to the patio without too much difficulty despite having a bad back.

For a while I have a Skywatcher flextube. With that, by grabbing one of the struts, I could pick it up with one hand. They aren't as heavy as people make out - unless they have muscles like wet lettuce 

 

[Astronomist]

definitely get the 10" if you can lift/transport it. I have the bresser version (which I believe is slightly heavier than the stellalyra) and it really isn't as heavy as it looks, however the ota weight 'with accessories' is advertised as 13kg when in reality it is closer to 18kg. As @Second Time Around mentioned, the altitude bearings make a very convenient handle.

[FLO]

3 hours ago, Second Time Around said:

With this huge reduction this represents a fabulous bargain!

Looking at the advert, the eBay 'retailer' is Bresser's distributor in Germany. So, the advertised price does not include UK VAT or Duty.

The true price then is £595 plus, I presume, a Customs handling fee. 

Their price is still lower than UK retailers' price (£639) but doesn't include a UK warranty (you'd need to contact Bresser's distributor in Germany for warranty support). 

HTH, 

Steve 

[FLO]

3 hours ago, Second Time Around said:

I just hope they're not going to discontinue them.

I can understand you thinking this, it is an unusual situation, but FWIW, we haven't heard anything about Bresser Messier Dobsonians being discontinued 🙂 

HTH, 

Steve 

[Second Time Around]

1 hour ago, FLO said:

Looking at the advert, the eBay 'retailer' is Bresser's distributor in Germany. So, the advertised price does not include UK VAT or Duty.

The true price then is £595 plus, I presume, a Customs handling fee. 

Their price is still lower than UK retailers' price (£639) but doesn't include a UK warranty (you'd need to contact Bresser's distributor in Germany for warranty support). 

HTH, 

Steve 

Hi Steve

I'm not sure about the VAT and duty having to be added as, even though the scope is despatched from Germany, the seller is Bresser UK.  

Additionally, looking through the 100% feedback, nobody has complained about being charged duty and VAT, and I can find nothing in the listing.

We'll soon find out as forum member Zermelo has bought one of these scopes.

The seller has 100s of items listed and only a few are reduced in price.

I suspect that this in a genuine reduction and so you'd be rightly aggrieved if you're not able to buy from Bresser at a price that enables you to match the reduction.

I hope this is so because, as you'll probably remember, I'm a great supporter of FLO and I always prefer to buy from you.

[Rallemikken]

8 hours ago, Adam Print said:

Does anyone have any opinions on the best option?

They are both 1200mm long. That makes the 10" f/5 while the 8" is f/6. The bigger one will not pull things closer. I have a 8" StelllaLyra dob for visual and a Skywatcher 200PDS (f/5) for AP. I also have a 6" f/4. The distortion near the edges increase as the f-ratio falls. In this case, the 8" will give a crisper view without correcting optics (reducers and such). If they both were f/6, I'd go for the biggest.

[FLO]

24 minutes ago, Second Time Around said:

I'm not sure about the VAT and duty having to be added as, even though the scope is despatched from Germany, the seller is Bresser UK.  

I don't have an eBay account, so please correct me if I am mistaken, but eBay's shopping cart strongly suggests it is supplied from outside the UK, and tax and Duty are not included. 'Bresser UK' is owned by Bresser GmbH, in Germany. 

HTH, 

Steve

[Second Time Around]

My apologies, it looks as though you're right, Steve.  Thanks for checking the cart.  I hope Zermelo spotted that!

 

 

[Spile]

Personally the 8” is the right weight and size for me. If you are unsure about the 10”, I would go and see one to see you can accommodate it.

[RichM63]

Something weird, I checked from my EU location, and 

Item doesn't post to France:

Item location:
Rhede, Germany
Posts to: 
United Kingdom
Excludes: 
Africa, Albania, Andorra, Asia, Austria, Belarus, Belgium, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Central America and Caribbean, Channel Islands, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Gibraltar, Greece, Guernsey, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Isle of Wight, Italy, Jersey, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Macedonia, Malta, Middle East, Moldova, Monaco, Montenegro, Netherlands, North America, Norway, Oceania, Poland, Portugal, Republic of Croatia, Romania, Russian Federation, San Marino, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia, South America, South East Asia, Spain, Svalbard and Jan Mayen, Sweden, Switzerland, Ukraine, Vatican City State

[Ricochet]

This video is worth a watch. I guess it could be summarised as ‘you can see more with a 10”, but you will use an 8” more’. Personally, there have been quite a few occasions where l have been glad that I didn't have anything heavier than my 8" when putting it away at the end of the night.

 

[DAT]

I have bought a couple of items from Bresser through eBay and was worried about duties/tax. They confirmed this does not get added and indeed they were not. I would email to check just to be sure. I cannot say anything about warranty which is a a valid point someone else pointed out 

 

[Zermelo]

26 minutes ago, Second Time Around said:

I hope Zermelo spotted that

No, I didn't see that message when I ordered.  I just now checked the order details on my phone eBay app, and it doesn't say that taxes are payable, however it does say "to view the tax invoice associated with this order, visit the order details on desktop".  But the order details on the desktop eBay do not seem to mention any tax invoice.

I just repeated the order as far as the first payment screen, and I do see the message that (FLO) Steve posted. But if you then click on the "learn more", you just get taken to a generic information page, with nothing specific to your order.

Of note in that information page, it says "If additional tax is applicable on your eBay purchase, you'll see this indicated on the listing page and the tax amount will be shown on the checkout page before you pay", neither of which was the case with my order. The info page also says "you can view and download a tax invoice from the Order details page in your Purchase history" which, as I said, doesn't appear to be there. In the section "Items delivered to the UK", it says "prices on eBay.co.uk are shown inclusive of VAT", but there is also a section "Goods shipped to the UK from abroad" (is that different?), which suggests that VAT on items exceeding £135 is not collected by eBay, so I'm none the wiser. I've hardly ever bought stuff of this value from abroad before.

Anyway, the estimated delivery date is last week of Jan, so I'll let you all know.

 

 

[Shimrod]

20 minutes ago, Zermelo said:

No, I didn't see that message when I ordered.  I just now checked the order details on my phone eBay app, and it doesn't say that taxes are payable, however it does say "to view the tax invoice associated with this order, visit the order details on desktop".  But the order details on the desktop eBay do not seem to mention any tax invoice.

I just repeated the order as far as the first payment screen, and I do see the message that (FLO) Steve posted. But if you then click on the "learn more", you just get taken to a generic information page, with nothing specific to your order.

Of note in that information page, it says "If additional tax is applicable on your eBay purchase, you'll see this indicated on the listing page and the tax amount will be shown on the checkout page before you pay", neither of which was the case with my order. The info page also says "you can view and download a tax invoice from the Order details page in your Purchase history" which, as I said, doesn't appear to be there. In the section "Items delivered to the UK", it says "prices on eBay.co.uk are shown inclusive of VAT", but there is also a section "Goods shipped to the UK from abroad" (is that different?), which suggests that VAT on items exceeding £135 is not collected by eBay, so I'm none the wiser. I've hardly ever bought stuff of this value from abroad before.

Anyway, the estimated delivery date is last week of Jan, so I'll let you all know.

 

 

I may have this wrong, but a quick look seems to indicate that if the seller is UK based, then even though the item is shipping from abroad the price should already include VAT. In this case, the seller is Bresser UK with a regiestered UK company and address.

They only have two scopes available, so looks like a genuine sale. I did notice a similar bargain before Christmas with the Bresser Binoviewer from Ebay compared to buying from Bresser UK.

Edit: It would probably be expensive if you need to send it back to Germany though!

 

Edited January 13 by Shimrod

[JOC]

I own an 8" Dob.  I already find it's size and set-up time is a barrier to using it and I only have to cart it 10 metre' outside my back door where it stands behind.   Unless you can keep a 10" accessible and can stand moving it then for sheer practicality an 8" might be easier.  FWIW I get lovely views through the 8"  and unless you really want to go and chase those faint wisps of DSO's where the light is everything and you are into blacking out the works, living somewhere truly dark, spending hours dark adapting your eyes and really taking it seriously then the 10" might not give you any huge advantage over the 8".  After all there is very little difference in effective magnification in terms of what works in the UK anyway.  So I guess it's down to what you want, but you might find an 8" is enough and considerably easier to shift around.  Why not go and look at both and experiment with lifting the various bits of them before you buy?

Edited January 15 by JOC

[Zermelo]

On 13/01/2024 at 22:25, Zermelo said:

No, I didn't see that message when I ordered.  I just now checked the order details on my phone eBay app, and it doesn't say that taxes are payable, however it does say "to view the tax invoice associated with this order, visit the order details on desktop".  But the order details on the desktop eBay do not seem to mention any tax invoice.

I just repeated the order as far as the first payment screen, and I do see the message that (FLO) Steve posted. But if you then click on the "learn more", you just get taken to a generic information page, with nothing specific to your order.

Of note in that information page, it says "If additional tax is applicable on your eBay purchase, you'll see this indicated on the listing page and the tax amount will be shown on the checkout page before you pay", neither of which was the case with my order. The info page also says "you can view and download a tax invoice from the Order details page in your Purchase history" which, as I said, doesn't appear to be there. In the section "Items delivered to the UK", it says "prices on eBay.co.uk are shown inclusive of VAT", but there is also a section "Goods shipped to the UK from abroad" (is that different?), which suggests that VAT on items exceeding £135 is not collected by eBay, so I'm none the wiser. I've hardly ever bought stuff of this value from abroad before.

Anyway, the estimated delivery date is last week of Jan, so I'll let you all know.

 

 

An update on this. I just received a proper invoice from Bresser by email. It looks like they do this only after the order has shipped. So, the price on eBay is inclusive of VAT at 20%.  I'm not yet sure how much import duty will be payable on landing. On gov.uk, the "third country duty" section for telescopes says 4%, but there's also a section for EU that says 0%.  Possibly that is down to HMG still not imposing reciprocal duties following B*****.

[Zermelo]

On 16/01/2024 at 12:01, Zermelo said:

An update on this. I just received a proper invoice from Bresser by email. It looks like they do this only after the order has shipped. So, the price on eBay is inclusive of VAT at 20%.  I'm not yet sure how much import duty will be payable on landing. On gov.uk, the "third country duty" section for telescopes says 4%, but there's also a section for EU that says 0%.  Possibly that is down to HMG still not imposing reciprocal duties following B*****.

 

To close this off - and apologies for the slight diversion of the original thread - my Dob arrived today.

The advertised price online was what I ended up paying, i.e. VAT was already included, postage was free, and I didn't need to pay any import duties.  I've just checked eBay again, and the price is unchanged, but it's now showing as out of stock.

[FLO]

2 hours ago, Zermelo said:

To close this off - and apologies for the slight diversion of the original thread - my Dob arrived today.

The advertised price online was what I ended up paying, i.e. VAT was already included, postage was free, and I didn't need to pay any import duties. 

So, the distributor's price, available via their eBay store, only to UK customers, is over 25% lower than their UK retailer's price! It is also lower than our cost price, so we cannot price-match. 

I have no idea how or why they are doing this. I guess Bresser's plans for retail in the UK have changed. 

Steve 

[Shimrod]

3 hours ago, FLO said:

So, the distributor's price, available via their eBay store, only to UK customers, is over 25% lower than their UK retailer's price! It is also lower than our cost price, so we cannot price-match. 

I have no idea how or why they are doing this. I guess Bresser's plans for retail in the UK have changed. 

Steve 

They did only have two available at that price and both have been sold - possibly just a clearout of old stock?