To goto or not to goto.....

[rubbertoebooks]

What's everyone's thoughts on the benefits of Goto telescopes, especially for a beginner?

As a beginner I can see that a goto scope would be of great benefit but, to me it feels like cheating. Surely the science and enjoyment of astronomy is finding these objects by yourself ?

I'm getting closer and closer to buying my first scope and I know I have posted a few questions regarding buying a telescope but I'm just narrowing down my options!!!!

Thanks...

[Ben Ritchie]

Surely the science and enjoyment of astronomy is finding these objects by yourself ?

As a long-time GOTOer who has recently acquired a push-to Dob, I think it very much depends - some love it, I find it a mixture of fun and frustration (more of the former than the latter as I gain experience), others find it so frustrating that it's enough to put them off the hobby.

If you're only interested in visual astronomy, not photography, and are on a limited budget then there's a lot to be said (IMHO) for spending the money on better optics/eyepieces rather than GOTO. But you will see a lot more, a lot quicker with a GOTO 'scope - even with some practice I still find myself taking some time to find even relatively bright targets

[jgs001]

I think it's a personal choice (unless you're short on power for a decent nights imaging and want to get onto the target as fast as possible of course ) I started out star hopping using Turn Left at Orion and my little Konus on a camera tripod and that was great. When I got the NexStar goto mount, mainly for tracking the moon at relatively high mags, I did use the goto to find objects like M81/M82 and M51 I'd never found with star hopping, and was able to see them. When I got the HEQ5 and was star hopping to these targets I found it pretty easy, as I knew pretty much where to look in part thanks to looking at where the goto pointed the scope. Even if you get a scope with goto, there's nothing to stop you star hopping anyway.

I have seen warnings posted about cheaper goto systems, meaning that you end up spending more money on the goto electronics and lose out on the mounting and optical abilities of the scope. I must admit, the 60mm scope that came as a freebie with my NexStar has only ever been out of it's box the once... and I was getting some odd effects with my Hyperion ep's with it...

[Mark at Beaufort]

I bought a 5" Nexstar SCT with goto in 1999. It was great at finding all the bright Messier and caldwell objects. I think I got to know the night sky better as a result of the goto system. However it was too easy and I wanted the challenge of finding the objects by star hopping so I bought a 4" APO refractor and a 6" SCT. I now set up a programme for which objects I wish to study on each observing nights I find it more satisfying. However, I don't regret the purchase of the goto system because my hobby is now more enjoyable as a result.

Mark

[arad85]

I have seen and learned a lot more in a month with my Celestron 6SE goto than I would ever have thought possible. It really is great to be able to (nearly) plonk the scope down, point at a couple of bright objects co let the scope locate itself and then just browsing the tour. This is especially important if you've had a few beers and you're getting the scope out to just have "a look" and show some of the family some sights...

I wouldn't be without it, although I do have hankerings for something of bigger aperture now :s

[John]

I've owned both GOTO and non-GOTO scopes and on the whole prefer the latter type because I've decided that I prefer to spend my money on aperture rather than electronics. Thats a personal decision though and I can certainly see the benefits of both types of scope mount.

A GOTO scope is a great way of showing others (especially children) a range of astro objects without them loosing interest while you carefully star-hop and search around for an ellusive object.

What does perplex me a bit is why very small aperture scopes are sold with GOTO mounts where the mount can point the scope at an object that simply cannot be actually seen because of the limited aperture. It must be very frustating to think that your scope is pointing at a famous object, say M1 - the Crab Nebula, but then find that nothing shows up in the eyepiece of your 60mm-70mm scope !.

John

[samtheeagle]

When I was choosing I couldn't help getting that nagging feeling that a GOTO was somehow cheating too... Personally I like the challenge of finding things manually, and I consider it to be half the fun of the hobby I think it has also made me look much more closely at the sky, and to learn it's features in more detail as that's how you find stuff!

Very much a personal thing, but me, I like doing it the old fashioned way

[Lee]

Like most I started with GOTO, It gives you that ease of finding targets that every newcomer wishes to have.

You are still learning the sky even with GOTO, if you take the time to look where the telescope is slewing to. As time progresses you will begin to recognise the constellations and star patterns that point out locations of objects. This is how I developed my knowledge of the sky.

I'm still learning now... GOTO just makes it a bit easier.

That said, when you find an object just using your own skills, it feels great.

Whatever you decide remember that patients is the name of this game.

Lee.

[Ben Ritchie]

What does perplex me a bit is why very small aperture scopes are sold with GOTO mounts where the mount can point the scope at an object that simply cannot be actually seen because of the limited aperture.

My first 'scope was a Meade EXT-105 which had a (mostly) useful guided tour mode, but that tended to pick very odd targets like Cygnus X-1, 3C273, Pluto and faint NGC-galaxies alongside the more sensible ones. In practice it was about 50/50 odds of ending up on something you stood a chance of seeing.

[GazOC]

The GOTO vs non-GOTO is an old and thorny issue on astro forums, all I would say to a beginner is make your choice but beware of sacrificing the optics just to have GOTO. Its the optics that will be giving you the views and its no good having saved a little time finding an object if the view you get is then poor or even non existant (as John has mentioned).

Just my 2p.

[Vega]

Here's where I stand...

I started out without goto and am glad I didnt have it as it gave me much pleasure hunting down and finding objects myself for the first time.. a real buzz. It also helped me learn the sky well. However, when I got my 250px I went GOTO and for good reason. With a large reflector you cannot even reach the finderscope in some positions so goto is a real plus. It also saves time when finding difficult objects for an imaging session.

-Starting out (with scope under 8") - Dont use GOTO (Get to learn the sky, its great fun and very satisfying

!)

-Had experience of hunting down objects - Use GOTO (simply to save time)

-Have a scope 8" or over - Use GOTO

Matt

[omneferuss]

I started a year ago brashly declaring that GoTo was not for me!

I would conquer all, and see it all, by aquiring the skills the 'Manly' way, without 'Sissy' electronic aids!

I am now preparing the pads on which my new EQ5 will soon sport its new GoTo upgrade and will no longer miss so much with patchy cloud, milky skies, and light-pollution making star-hopping fruitless.

Eg. tonight Leo has no head, a 'hip' star is missing... and, on a good night I still cannot see Cancer at all.. nevermind Praesepe...

I decided that there were too many things that I would not live to see, in my locality, without some help. In fact, my interest in astrophotography is largely for the purpose of "seeing" things in my sky that my largest aperture will not reveal to my eye...... and to achieve that, I obviously need Goto... ( one day I might seriously attempt using the EQ5's setting circles.. and I'll get around to the Az-ring for my Dob.. and get a Wixey... etc etc, but in the meantime I'll "cut my losses" with thanks to the GoTo, thanks very much )

[kniclander]

ok, no beating about the bush - if you want to learn about visual astronomy, don't get goto. Get a dob and learn the sky and learn to starhop. Unless you have unlimited funds you will be sacrificing masses of aperture and although you may see more things, they won't look as good. Anyway, once you know the sky a bit and learn to starhop it is probably quicker (YES QUICKER) to do it that way than with some cheap and clunky autoslewing.

Also, finding things is really really rewarding.

The other benefit of doing it manually is, as you look around, you'll see things that you weren't even looking for and then you'll have the pleasure of trying to work out what it was you saw....

After a bit of practice you'll learn to -

1. point the scope at a particular star

2.estimate the magnitude of stars through the finder and the eyepiece

3. estimate angular distances and move your scope just the right amount and direction

4. know masses of constellations.

5. go outside with nothing but your scope and star atlas and a red light torch and find galaxies tens of millions of light years away.....

ps ignore all the above if you are into astrophotography when I guess you really do need goto.

pps - if you want to control a scope electronically, you can always do it online and it'll be a much bigger and better scope

good luck

make the right choice

[Doc]

Goto is good for astrophotography if you are hunting down elusive targets to capture.

For a beginner interested in just visual I would rather have bigger optics and buy myself a star atlas and red torch and learn the sky myself. Much more rewarding that way.

[Nic]

I bought my Nexstar 4SE GoTo about 15 months ago and have often wondered whether I made the right choice or should have gone for a non-GoTo refractor. The GoTo certainly made it very easy initially to view things and I would recommend the Nextstar for its portability and ease of set-up, but I'm now feeling frustrated that I don't know the sky as well as I would have expected. I got hold of "Turn Left..." recently and have already made improvements to my star-hopping skills by simply using this to find my way around. I still use Sky Align to get the scope up and running, but then hop about using the hand controller rather than the database. So that's rather a lot of fairly pricey computing power going to waste!

If you want to learn the night sky (and what budding amateur astronomer doesn't) then don't go down the GoTo route. Also bear in mind that GoTo isn't a magic wand - fail to level the mount or input a slightly wrong time or location and it makes things worse not better (been there and bought the T-shirt).

[philipok]

I have a long working day, live in the UK, have a wife who likes seeing me in the evening, and time at my 10" scope is extremely limited. My philosophy is - find it with GOTO, enjoy the view, and maybe use my binoculars to locate it after the GOTO. Sometimes just go out with binoculars and just sweep. I can find you M35 in 2 seconds with binos, but moving a Meade 10" manually would be a pain!

But I agree with others, I started as a teenager with an 8" and no GOTO.. hard work but fun..!

[philsail1]

I think John and Matt have made useful comments about the value of "GoTo" mounts.

If you have a small scope - "GoTo" is a bit of a waste of money, because when you find a "deep sky" object, you will see very little if anything.

Whereas, if you have a large telscope (say 10" or over) I would think "GoTo" is usefeul in that it will put your scope in the vicinity of the object you are looking for, and save you "manhandling" (or should I say "Personhandlling") a big scope around the sky.

I have a Celestron CG5 mount with the "Nexstar" "GoTo" (which I haven't quite got to work 100% consistantly yet!

The choice is yours!

Regards,

philsail1

[Beulah]

Two weeks ago I was in the position of deciding whether to get a Goto or a bog-standard Dobby - there were certain considerations I made before making a choice.

1) My income isn't exactly surplus, so I won't be able to afford repair costs of a more technically complex instrument that needs specialist repairs should it break down

2) Being a bit of an environmentallist, I try to do as many things as possible without using power sources, (batteries, electricity, fuel, etc) Eg. Cycle everywhere when I go out on my own, my woodworking hobby is all hand tool based, etc. Even imaging will be done the old fasioned way; by sketching what I see....

3) I just wanted a telescope that was simple, with great optics....me and the awesome silence of the night sky, and the rewards of finding a DSO by simply studying star maps and just pointin' the thing in dat sky!

4) I was told the "nudging" aspect on a Dobsonian would be a pain at first....but will seem like second nature after a while, and literally after 20 minutes of observing, I had the nudging down to a fine art.

5) In conclusion, it feels like I am directly interacting with the sky, searching for those living treasures. Call me a bit wierd , but successes are often sweeter after frustration.

Sooo....no GoTo at the moment...but my Dad has just bought a GoTo Telescope for himself, so I will be interested in seeing what it's all about.

[Ben Ritchie]

Whereas, if you have a large telscope (say 10" or over) I would think "GoTo" is usefeul in that it will put your scope in the vicinity of the object you are looking for, and save you "manhandling" (or should I say "Personhandlling") a big scope around the sky.

The flip-side of this is that a 10" GOTO (fork-mount SCT or GEM-mounted Newtonian) is a big bit of kit and a 12" is a two-man job for many people, whereas a 10" or 12" Dob is relatively easy to handle on your own - once it's split into base and OTA (10 seconds work) I can lug my 12" solid-tube Dob around the garden without too much effort. Trying to put it onto a GOTO GEM by myself would be right out. Observatory-mounted would be a bit different, i'd agree.

[dark knight]

Do take into account the darkness of your site. If heavily light polluted star hopping may become much more difficult especially when learning. Why not get something like an eq5 which can then be upgraded at a later date with synscan goto if you want it. At least that keeps your options open and it will take up to 9kg in weight also.

[Doc]

Two weeks ago I was in the position of deciding whether to get a Goto or a bog-standard Dobby - there were certain considerations I made before making a choice.

1) My income isn't exactly surplus, so I won't be able to afford repair costs of a more technically complex instrument that needs specialist repairs should it break down

2) Being a bit of an environmentallist, I try to do as many things as possible without using power sources, (batteries, electricity, fuel, etc) Eg. Cycle everywhere when I go out on my own, my woodworking hobby is all hand tool based, etc. Even imaging will be done the old fasioned way; by sketching what I see....

3) I just wanted a telescope that was simple, with great optics....me and the awesome silence of the night sky, and the rewards of finding a DSO by simply studying star maps and just pointin' the thing in dat sky!

4) I was told the "nudging" aspect on a Dobsonian would be a pain at first....but will seem like second nature after a while, and literally after 20 minutes of observing, I had the nudging down to a fine art.

5) In conclusion, it feels like I am directly interacting with the sky, searching for those living treasures. Call me a bit wierd , but successes are often sweeter after frustration.

Sooo....no GoTo at the moment...but my Dad has just bought a GoTo Telescope for himself, so I will be interested in seeing what it's all about.

Couldn't have put it better myself Sam.

[Talitha]

Go-to is a personal decision. I used to have it (Celestron Ultima 2000) but it kept glitching and at one point spent more time being repaired than being used. So I looked around and got an LX-10.. no computer, just a worm gear and setting circles. At least now if something goes wrong I can take it apart and fix it myself. Also, if there's a glitch in the observing, it's user error and not the scope.

There are a lot of good things about go-to, though. When it works properly you can get to see quite a lot in a small amount of time, and for those of you living under the UK's clouds, that's a very good reason to have it.

It's also great to have if you live under light polluted skies and simply cannot starhop. The GPS models they sell now are pre-set (iirc) at the factory with your particular coordinates, so you can hit the sky running without even needing a two-star alignment.

Best of luck with whatever decision you make.

[saturn5]

IMHO there is nothing more rewarding than searching the sky and "discovering" objects yourself by star hopping or whatever means you adopt.. without the aid of goto.

You learn the night sky as you search,you might spend half the night searching for something whereas goto finds it for you almost instantly but half the fun for me is roaming the sky.

If you're main interest is imaging then goto makes sense,spend as little time as possible looking for an object so you can maximise your time imaging(between the clouds)

I recently made a dob mount for my 250mm newt which used to be on a heq5 mount and have as much fun if not more now that i'm nudging it round by hand,there is also the fact that i can now observe from the comfort of a garden sun lounger.

[Psychobilly]

As I am an imager rather than an observer GOTO is a really bonus under my light polluted skies - I can combat it whilst imaging but star hopping would be a nightmare......

I still scan the skies with binos and a star atlas whilst the scopes are doing there things though...

I can "live" with being classed as a 2nd class citizen because I'm a goto jockey

[Beulah]

IMO, the "Imagers" are 1st class....posting those inspiring pics so that us "nudgers" know what to look for....