Congressional Oversight Committee on UAP's

[Elp]

Also a well known aircraft was lost in modern times in perculiar circumstances, much closer to earth than any satellite, how's it possible that no one knows (in a public setting) what actually happened to it. Why would it be any different for advanced tech objects with world changing consequences?

[ONIKKINEN]

1 hour ago, Elp said:

Yes but YOU cannot be certain of such information. It's like when you search the internet from wherever you are in the world, the results you get back are filtered by region or even due to local "filtering" (you can obviously bypass using a VPN). Unless you specifically have control of such data you cannot be certain of anything, don't even pay heed to the news as it doesn't tell the full story (trust me, I've seen it first hand even for a minor story, they only report what suits their narrative at the time and not what's actually happening to you first hand and edit it all out). Not a conspiracy nut or anything, but you cannot be sure of anything if it's second hand or more information.

Well, if this is the attitude then i cant be certain of anything at all. Everything i learned in school was taught to me by someone who supposedly knew what they were talking about, but since we cant accept that it must have been false and i actually learned nothing. Therefore the only real things in the world are a sunset and a sunrise since they are guaranteed and i can observe them firsthand. Although having been to Lapland in summer i can also say that sunsets are objectively false since they did not happen during that time so it must also be a lie. See the problem with saying that nothing can be trusted? Obviously you have to know your sources, and for governmental and non-governmental space (of many nations) organizations there should be an assumption of trust when it comes to these things. Satellite tracking is one of those things that is easier to just do than fake to do (kind of like the Moon landing was easier than faking it).

59 minutes ago, Elp said:

Also a well known aircraft was lost in modern times in perculiar circumstances, much closer to earth than any satellite, how's it possible that no one knows (in a public setting) what actually happened to it. Why would it be any different for advanced tech objects with world changing consequences?

Assuming you mean MH370 that disappeared and was never seen again? While it is not known what happened, there are plausible explanations. If it flew until engines flamed out (for whatever reason) it will have crashed into the ocean over such a large potential area that it is virtually impossible to find even soon after it happened. We have a much better view of objects in low earth orbit than we do of our oceans because frankly there is no need to survey our oceans at all times.

If you have already decided that everything is a conspiracy and its all aliens, then there is probably nothing that can sway that opinion.

[Elp]

Take from it what you will. I'm not saying stuff taught at school or what you see or not see is false, you're twisting things to suit your point of view is exactly what I'm getting at (it also echoes that well known paraphrased proverb "if a tree falls in a forest with no one around does it make a sound?").

Things will only be communicated which suit an idea or point of view for those communicating it (without it they'd certainly be less conversation). Education is tailored to suit. A lot of history goes untaught or not communicated, it doesn't mean it never happened. Failure to disclose everything is what sometimes leads people down false paths, or biases them to make uninformed decisions.

Information can be altered, it's not fantasy, the most popular "encyclopaedia" on the net is user generated content with other people having the powers to check it and alter it. History is rife with civilisations of information being destroyed to suit an ideal. With the onset of ever accessible AI it's only going to muddy factual and non factual information that anyone can generate and publish. 

My point about the aeroplane was not the aftermath as much of our oceans are uncharted particularly under the surface, how could they loose an airplane in monitored airspace (multiple countries, not just one, as well as satellites being in geostationary orbit and passing) with a recorder which is designed to continue communicating in the worst case scenario which unfortunately happened. Yet you are stating monitoring objects outside our atmosphere is reliable and can be depended on wholeheartedly?

If there is an advanced civilization near or around us, it wouldn't be implausible that they could manipulate our systems is it? Even our own people could do it, how would you personally know?

Maybe we are all alone and the unknown things are human made, just not disclosed. The unknown has always lead the mind to believe in certain things (world is flat, everything revolves around the earth) had we been around in such times we would likely believe such things also due to what we were being told which is again reiterating my point, you cannot possibly believe everything with a blinkered view.

We were told diesel engines were great, they're actually worse than petrol health-wise for those driving and operating them. This is just one example of misinformation, in this case it has long reaching effects and how many people have suffered as a result is an unknown as well as the environmental damage.

For the topic at hand, in the immediate very short term the disclosure or non disclosure of information might not affect the average person in the slightest.

Like I said, take from it what you will. This is a forum, a place of discussion. There is no right or wrong unless it's uncalled for. Everyone will have their own views and contributions.

[ONIKKINEN]

28 minutes ago, Elp said:

Take from it what you will. I'm not saying stuff taught at school or what you see or not see is false, you're twisting things to suit your point of view is exactly what I'm getting at (it also echoes that well known paraphrased proverb "if a tree falls in a forest with no one around does it make a sound?").

 

I apologize for the abrasive tone. I also apologize for the continuation of the abrasive tone for what comes next.

29 minutes ago, Elp said:

My point about the aeroplane was not the aftermath as much of our oceans are uncharted particularly under the surface, how could they loose an airplane in monitored airspace (multiple countries, not just one, as well as satellites being in geostationary orbit and passing) with a recorder which is designed to continue communicating in the worst case scenario which unfortunately happened. Yet you are stating monitoring objects outside our atmosphere is reliable and can be depended on wholeheartedly?

Monitoring objects in orbit is significantly easier than monitoring the empty quarters of our planet. Objects in motion stay in motion (something something Sir Isaac Newton), which means an object in orbit will stay in orbit unless acted upon by an outside force. We can predict stable orbits very easily to quite far in the future. Of course there is variation in atmospheric drag due to many things (like solar flares that can expand the upper atmosphere and cause more drag, one of the things that makes calculating a re-entering crafts/piece of spacejunks exact moment of re-entry difficult). Satellites typically do not have high thrust to weight ratio propulsion systems on board, and so any orbital change is very slow and can be noticed within a few orbits of the maneuver beginning. In the case of ion propulsion the maneuvers themselves can take days or weeks. So yes, i am saying that tracking satellites is significantly easier than tracking planes, especially if those planes deliberately take the easily toggleable trackers offline (in the case of a deliberate incident, which MH370 may or may not have been, we might never know).

39 minutes ago, Elp said:

If there is an advanced civilization near or around us, it wouldn't be implausible that they could manipulate our systems is it? Even our own people could do it, how would you personally know?

Yes, it would be implausible. Partially because it is implausible that there are nearby advanced civilizations. It is more likely that i win the lottery 5 times in a row with the same numbers. Actually even this is not a fair comparison because we know for a fact that the lottery exists and its not impossible to win it 5 times in a row, whereas we do not know of any nearby civilizations even with decades of searching. If there was a civilization with their own radio bubble within say 10 light years from us, we would definitely know of it. Stars further than this might as well be in Narnia.

50 minutes ago, Elp said:

Maybe we are all alone and the unknown things are human made, just not disclosed. The unknown has always lead the mind to believe in certain things (world is flat, everything revolves around the earth) had we been around in such times we would likely believe such things also due to what we were being told which is again reiterating my point, you cannot possibly believe everything with a blinkered view.

But i should believe in aliens on Earth when there is 0 evidence for this? And that could be done with a blinkered view? Really i wish to know how is is that one comes to the conclusion that any unexplained thing is because of aliens. An unidentified aerial phenomena is just that, unidentified. Its not identified as aliens aerial phenomena until we have evidence. Scientific papers, peer reviews, material evidence, laboratory studies. If all that happens, then maybe it is reasonable to suggest non-terrestial involvement (if the studies support this), but until then it is the least likely scenario.

Also, it is not clear there really even is an unknown thing that the whole hearing discussed since no evidence was shown. So at this point it was entirely hearsay.

41 minutes ago, Elp said:

We were told diesel engines were great, they're actually worse than petrol health-wise for those driving and operating them. This is just one example of misinformation, in this case it has long reaching effects and how many people have suffered as a result is an unknown as well as the environmental damage.

This is not an example of misinformation. This is an example of being wrong, and then taking back those words once we learned we were wrong (while the automotive industry tries to slow down change of course). Diesel engines are significantly more energy efficient than petrol engines, but produce particulates (amongst other things) in their exhaust which are very difficult to filter out and will cause health issues when breathing these in. This was not always known, or if it was, it was not cared for because priorities change over time. Today diesel engines are being phased out because we learned more, this is how science progresses. So there really is no lie here in my opinion.

I still dont quite understand what your point was although i spent some time reading through your comment(s) again. Do you think there is some evil entity manipulating the average person to not think of aliens or something?

[Sunshine]

I need to catch up on this thread, waiting for my popcorn to finish popping.

[Elp]

All I was getting at is don't believe everything you see or hear in the media/TV/also a lot of things on the internet. I've experienced this first hand where print media published a story which did not communicate the main issues we were experiencing at the time and putting across and just reported on their own story, their own narrative. Such practices are done to manipulate the eventual readers/consumers. Whatever happens from the hearings may be similar, there may be nothing to come of it at all. Would anything really be disclosed if any of it were true, I don't think so. Information or disinformation is very easily made and many people will lap it up without question.

[Rusted]

 I start every day by reading the Danish News websites, The BBC News website and Google World News. The BBC News website is absolutely pathetic and unchanging in comparison with the Danish national broadcaster. The latter is constantly updated and presents new stories throughout the day.

 Most of Google's World News website is blocked by paywalls or demands cookies for inside leg measurements. Even if the story is a readily available YouTube video.

 If you had to rely on the BBC website from outside the UK for world news. Then your world view would be limited to the BBC selling its own programmes. PLUS SPORTS ON STEROIDS or sports events and sports celebs "doing stuff." The BBC's main directive is clearly dumbing down the masses and feeding the drooling sports fans with ever more laudanum.

 The world's news media is simply a vast advertising business. Which chooses to have a speciality in (usually) highly biased news stories. Each chooses deliberate filtering and often has a clear, political or nationalist agenda. Or practices denial of service. By hiding behind a paywall or cookie monster.

 Whoever came up with the multiple options for cookies on every website should be hung up high in a cage. In a very public space. Until they rot and turn to dust. For setting back humanity by decades and increasing the wasted time of countless trillions of man hours in making cookie selections. Not to mention the increased load on the Internet. All it needed was for a simple OPT IN button. No other choice, or visitor decision, otherwise required. 

[Rusted]

4 hours ago, Elp said:

All I was getting at is don't believe everything you see or hear in the media/TV/also a lot of things on the internet. I've experienced this first hand where print media published a story which did not communicate the main issues we were experiencing at the time and putting across and just reported on their own story, their own narrative. Such practices are done to manipulate the eventual readers/consumers. Whatever happens from the hearings may be similar, there may be nothing to come of it at all. Would anything really be disclosed if any of it were true, I don't think so. Information or disinformation is very easily made and many people will lap it up without question.

The whole congress thing may well be rehearsed. By drip-release of a palatable version of their "truth." Blaming the military for secrecy? Easy peasy! Cleverly deflecting the blame away from the "elected," octogenarians themselves. It will be sold to dumb and dumber by "the media" and everybody can go back to reading about the latest mass shootings and Barbie News.

[saac]

4 hours ago, Rusted said:

 I start every day by reading the Danish News websites, The BBC News website and Google World News. The BBC News website is absolutely pathetic and unchanging in comparison with the Danish national broadcaster. The latter is constantly updated and presents new stories throughout the day.

 Most of Google's World News website is blocked by paywalls or demands cookies for inside leg measurements. Even if the story is a readily available YouTube video.

 If you had to rely on the BBC website from outside the UK for world news. Then your world view would be limited to the BBC selling its own programmes. PLUS SPORTS ON STEROIDS or sports events and sports celebs "doing stuff." The BBC's main directive is clearly dumbing down the masses and feeding the drooling sports fans with ever more laudanum.

 The world's news media is simply a vast advertising business. Which chooses to have a speciality in (usually) highly biased news stories. Each chooses deliberate filtering and often has a clear, political or nationalist agenda. Or practices denial of service. By hiding behind a paywall or cookie monster.

 Whoever came up with the multiple options for cookies on every website should be hung up high in a cage. In a very public space. Until they rot and turn to dust. For setting back humanity by decades and increasing the wasted time of countless trillions of man hours in making cookie selections. Not to mention the increased load on the Internet. All it needed was for a simple OPT IN button. No other choice, or visitor decision, otherwise required. 

Err, don't read it then !

Jim 

[Elp]

True, but many a national political decision/position is made upon the information provided by such or equivalent sources. Some countries they don't even have freedom of choice to access outside unbiased material.

[Rusted]

36 minutes ago, saac said:

Err, don't read it then !

Jim 

Then how will I be informed of the collapse of civilisation as we know it?

[andrew s]

1 hour ago, Rusted said:

Then how will I be informed of the collapse of civilisation as we know it?

SGL will be offline.  Regards Andrew 

[Rusted]

 Assuming UFOs [used in the broadest sense of the term] are from another dimension, or universe. Then wouldn't they be out of phase with ours?  If they could control their own time/frequency phase they could become invisible. Or able to perform relative manoeuvres beyond our understanding or present capabilities.

 Another option could be time travellers. A logical approach if interstellar travel is involved. The Earth Zoo is hardly a Sunday morning, family outing. Not even on Proxima Centauri. Another species would need very long lifetimes. To be willing to sacrifice years in hibernation. Just to come and point and laugh at the antics of the hilarious, hairless monkeys. They might as well use their own version of full immersion AI/VR. From the comfort of their crystal spheres floating effortlessly in their pristine atmospheres.

 One should never forget the terrifying dangers of viral or bacterial contamination by any outside source. Physical contact could be, quite literally, life and death. For every living thing on both planets involved and even far beyond. Covid proves how vulnerable we remain as a species. With our limited medical facilities and antagonistic, societal structures.

[The60mmKid]

The less I understand this thread, the more I enjoy it.

[Rusted]

9 hours ago, The60mmKid said:

The less I understand this thread, the more I enjoy it.

Oh dear. That would make your "like" into being damned by faint praise.  🤣

[Bivanus]

On 30/07/2023 at 20:40, 900SL said:

A quick look at youtube 'James Webb' has the following uploads, all alarmist and tripe science:

Yeah, sadly YouTube has become lately a bit of a brown & smelly tube. It used to be about fun , now it's about clicks and likes and subscribes.

Anyway , related to the 'James Webb' telescope , here's M57 like you probably did not see it before : https://www.space.com/james-webb-space-telescope-ring-nebula-dead-star

Oh , and if you DID see it like that before , by all means , do let us know the gear used 😜

[maw lod qan]

The first letter says it all. U

Unidentified. 

I really want to believe there are other life forms out there. And that they have advanced enough to solve the distance/time problem that leaves us lowly humans scratching our heads.

I like the scene in K-Pax where he demonstrates "light travel!"

You didn't go anywhere!

I'm already back.

Around here, we call that the fastest gun in the west trick.

I'm not from around here!

Sadly when it comes to human authority figures, I am a conspiracy believing fool.

The one thing I know for absolute certainty is when one lands in my yard, I won't be taking a gun out to greet them!

[Mr H in Yorkshire]

21 minutes ago, maw lod qan said:

The one thing I know for absolute certainty is when one lands in my yard, I won't be taking a gun out to greet them!

Without trying to cause offence, I'm always amused at the hubris the USA has over this matter. What's to say UAV/UFO's wouldn't first go to say Bangladesh, or Lichtenstein or Guatamala?

[maw lod qan]

1 hour ago, Mr H in Yorkshire said:

Without trying to cause offence, I'm always amused at the hubris the USA has over this matter. What's to say UAV/UFO's wouldn't first go to say Bangladesh, or Lichtenstein or Guatamala?

They possibly will!

Why someone would want to experience this madness here, just to see what there is amazing to see I don't understand. 

You never know, an advanced alien race might enjoy a good comedy routine. 

My point was, it wouldn't make much sense to confront someone that just came from who knows where, with a projectile weapon!

Edited August 3, 2023 by maw lod qan

[Knighty2112]

On 30/07/2023 at 18:40, 900SL said:

We live in strange times. Disinformation and media manipulation of a misinformed populace is running rampant. Absolute balony masquerades as science and fact on mainstream TV channels, championing fringe and crackpot positions to the masses. Sensationalism and fearmongering run rampant on Youtube.

A quick look at youtube 'James Webb' has the following uploads, all alarmist and tripe science:

'Terrifying..'

'They lied to us..'   

'Big Bang Debunked..'

'Oumuamua returning'

Usually with a photo of Brian Cox, Micheo Kaku, or Neil De Grasse Tyson

The question is, WHY?

Divide and conquer? Dumbing down? Distraction?

I fear with the rise of AI misinformation is going to get even worse, so looking for any certain truths are going to be very much harder.  

[Paul M]

Dylan O'Donnell's latest YouTube video says it all:

[Barry Fitz-Gerald]

Alex Dietrich says it all (and at least she knows what she's talking about)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4JVMXYpLLg

 

[ollypenrice]

Some people need there to be aliens. They have a deep psychological craving for them. Without them there is a void in their very existence. Some people, often the same ones, have a deep craving to be the ones chosen to meet or see them because they have a deep belief in their own superiority... born of an even deeper belief in their own inferiority.   

So, of course, they see aliens.

Olly

[Barry Fitz-Gerald]

17 minutes ago, ollypenrice said:

Some people need there to be aliens. They have a deep psychological craving for them. Without them there is a void in their very existence. Some people, often the same ones, have a deep craving to be the ones chosen to meet or see them because they have a deep belief in their own superiority... born of an even deeper belief in their own inferiority.   

So, of course, they see aliens.

That may well be the case, after all people claim to see fairies at the bottom of the garden (I have Slow-Worms), Leprechaun's, Werewolves, Grey Aliens, giant insects and all sorts of other odd things. I would not like to speculate on this or the motivation/psychological state of those who report seeing them as I have no qualifications or interest in the field.

The UFO phenomenon is another matter however and not to be conflated with aliens and such like, as their origins are unknown. At the moment.

[Mr Spock]

Where there is something unexplained, most people will seek a rational explanation. Where there isn't an immediate explanation some will seek an irrational explanation as having that provides comfort.

That's what conspiracy theory is. People either cannot explain things rationally or logically, or cannot comprehend the science behind something or absence of an explanation, and so create scenarios of their own. Having an answer, however inaccurate and misguided, provides them with satisfaction.