ZWO Seestar 50

[LDW1]

3 hours ago, Priesters said:

I’m quite interested in this product and actually put a pre-order in but withdrew due to other finance pressures plus began to have some doubts about how it would cope here in damp Lancashire given the <60% humidity spec.  Anyone thought about any workarounds for dew?  Asked ZWO but no reply.

It was a bit of a miss print and it has a built in dew heater !

[doublevodka]

19 hours ago, LDW1 said:

Nothing wrong with the arguments, disagreeing but its the deriding of this new sensation that can really make one wonder where some fellow astronomers come from !  I don't know what they think they are doing, gaining out of it ? Maybe change some minds ?

 

18 hours ago, Stu1smartcookie said:

The "purists " ( not all of them) who are mainly into astrophotography scoff at the whole EAA idea . Maybe it twas ever thus , i can imagine when scopes started to be mass produced , "purists" dismissing them as "toys" . I do find an undercurrent of aloofness which tends to infiltrate the hobby . (personal opinion) . Strange really , after all , we are all in this hobby together , whatever equipment we use , whatever standard we are at ( i for one  still class myself as a beginner ) . Indeed this forum encourages newcomers to the hobby to ask a question without being derided and ridiculed  even if the question be a basic one . Surely we owe the same courtesy to a new product that brings another fascinating avenue to the many people who will be put off buying the larger variants due to cost . As the hobby evolves so does the equipment albeit at differing levels and quality .

 

18 hours ago, LDW1 said:

Agree 100% but its not the 1st time ! This great hobby is sometimes rife with this ' better than others ' shall we say comments, envy can do funny things.

There is certainly a subset of elitists when it comes to astronomy where it's their way or no way, thankfully most don't find their way here from the other forum 😂 Honestly I feel a little sorry for them, you'd think being into astronomy and it being a slightly scientific discipline they would be a little more open minded to new ideas. Thankfully over here on SGL there are a lot of helpful and like minded people who understand the benefits a new product like this could bring to the hobby, and also a bunch of great mods and admins who keep things in check  

[LDW1]

5 hours ago, doublevodka said:

 

 

There is certainly a subset of elitists when it comes to astronomy where it's their way or no way, thankfully most don't find their way here from the other forum 😂 Honestly I feel a little sorry for them, you'd think being into astronomy and it being a slightly scientific discipline they would be a little more open minded to new ideas. Thankfully over here on SGL there are a lot of helpful and like minded people who understand the benefits a new product like this could bring to the hobby, and also a bunch of great mods and admins who keep things in check  

I agree but there are some, not as bad as another well known site though, not nearly. Because of my comments I have been accused more than once that I work / represent a great up and coming company. It really makes me laugh but I am tough, lol !   PS:  But I think my comments, my personal experiences are proving correct !

Edited June 22, 2023 by LDW1

[LDW1]

5 hours ago, doublevodka said:

 

 

There is certainly a subset of elitists when it comes to astronomy where it's their way or no way, thankfully most don't find their way here from the other forum 😂 Honestly I feel a little sorry for them, you'd think being into astronomy and it being a slightly scientific discipline they would be a little more open minded to new ideas. Thankfully over here on SGL there are a lot of helpful and like minded people who understand the benefits a new product like this could bring to the hobby, and also a bunch of great mods and admins who keep things in check  

And I don't  / won't use the bad apple in every basket thing, lol !

[doublevodka]

1 hour ago, LDW1 said:

I agree but there are some, not as bad as another well known site though, not nearly. Because of my comments I have been accused more than once that I work / represent a great up and coming company. It really makes me laugh but I am tough, lol !   PS:  But I think my comments, my personal experiences are proving correct !

There's a reason I stopped going on there, I have to say the Celestron section was very useful when I had my Nexstar 4SE though, but they really like a strong opinion over there!

In SeeStar related news, some more info on the Facebook group - https://www.facebook.com/groups/seestar?sorting_setting=CHRONOLOGICAL it seems to be quite active and ZWO reps posting in there which is good.

The only thing I'm confused about, why isn't the SeeStar red? 😂

 

[powerlord]

2 hours ago, doublevodka said:

The only thing I'm confused about, why isn't the SeeStar red? 😂

 

ha! good point, though I imagine the answer is boringly that its injection molded plastic and I imagine you don't want the inside of the tube to be red.

I do sort of wish they'd have stuck a high res camera in there. I mean the difference in price from a 2mp sensor to a 16mp sensor is pennies. I reckon they were worried they'd lose some asi camera sales ? because one of the more modern phone sensors would have perhaps made a good choice - especially if they'd went with something like the imx586 - could have had the benefit of 48mp for moon and terrestrial, then 12mp for dso

[LDW1]

What I can't understand is the comments from all these experts regarding upgrading this and upgrading that, including this and including that to make the 50 that much better and all that stuff would just add ' pennies ' to the cost !  If so why hasn't ZWO thought of it  ?  After all its only negligable pennies or maybe ....... not !

[Elp]

3 hours ago, doublevodka said:

why isn't the SeeStar red? 😂

Black is obviously cheaper as it's a standard pigment and likely more universally appealing, it also doesn't fade as quickly, red is one of the worst colours for fading under UV exposure (not that it'll get much sunlight). Otherwise it'll look like some sort of anti aircraft deterrent, I'd presume.

The camera spec was one thing which gave me pause (and I don't need one), I'm guessing next year they'll announce a "NEW REVOLUTION IN ASTROPHOTOGRAPHY" and just give it a larger camera, aperture etc. Seestar 80 or 100 or something, or plus, pro...ultra...

[M40]

18 minutes ago, LDW1 said:

What I can't understand is the comments from all these experts regarding upgrading this and upgrading that, including this and including that to make the 50 that much better

 

5 minutes ago, Elp said:

Black is obviously cheaper as it's a standard pigment and likely more universally appealing

I'm guessing next year they'll announce a "NEW REVOLUTION IN ASTROPHOTOGRAPHY" and just give it a larger camera, aperture etc. Seestar 80 or 100 or something, or plus, pro...ultra...

I think both these comments are exactly right, this is a base introduction model to keep costs down and test the market. If it sells well, and I see no reason why it won't,  expect new upgraded releases with extra gadgets and extra costs. 

Received an update from flo today, confirmed shipping to flo sometime in August 👌

[Elp]

I suspected their am3 would also be the same time so likely.

[powerlord]

1 hour ago, LDW1 said:

What I can't understand is the comments from all these experts regarding upgrading this and upgrading that, including this and including that to make the 50 that much better and all that stuff would just add ' pennies ' to the cost !  If so why hasn't ZWO thought of it  ?  After all its only negligable pennies or maybe ....... not !

😛 hope that wisnae directed at me.. because:

1. Im no expert !!! 🤪

2. i ordered one as soon as it was announced.

I stand by my comment - they have to protect their market to an extent - 2mp is fine for eev and stuff.. sticking a 12mp sensor in it might just make it 'too good' and drain other lines. at least that's my guess. If its sucessful, my guess is they will produce a 'pro' version (yeh yeh..not really pro but they'll call it that maybe) with a higher mp sensor, maybe additional features, etc. that's the way any market works at the end of day.

 

stu

 

[LDW1]

45 minutes ago, powerlord said:

😛 hope that wisnae directed at me.. because:

1. Im no expert !!! 🤪

2. i ordered one as soon as it was announced.

I stand by my comment - they have to protect their market to an extent - 2mp is fine for eev and stuff.. sticking a 12mp sensor in it might just make it 'too good' and drain other lines. at least that's my guess. If its sucessful, my guess is they will produce a 'pro' version (yeh yeh..not really pro but they'll call it that maybe) with a higher mp sensor, maybe additional features, etc. that's the way any market works at the end of day.

 

stu

 

It wasn't directed at you, there are many, what I question is the continuous use of the words ' for pennies ' but I am sure they think the price wouldn't go up. Anyone that thinks that way are just plain dream'n, lol !

[Priesters]

21 hours ago, LDW1 said:

It was a bit of a miss print and it has a built in dew heater !

Oh ok, that’s good then.  May reconsider once the wallet has recovered and we’ve a few more user reviews.

[doublevodka]

3 hours ago, powerlord said:

😛 hope that wisnae directed at me.. because:

1. Im no expert !!! 🤪

2. i ordered one as soon as it was announced.

I stand by my comment - they have to protect their market to an extent - 2mp is fine for eev and stuff.. sticking a 12mp sensor in it might just make it 'too good' and drain other lines. at least that's my guess. If its sucessful, my guess is they will produce a 'pro' version (yeh yeh..not really pro but they'll call it that maybe) with a higher mp sensor, maybe additional features, etc. that's the way any market works at the end of day.

 

stu

 

Think you've hit the nail on the head there, test the market first with a little teaser, then launch a "pro" or similar

From various threads I've seen, something with a swappable camera and filters would be good

Still haven't seen anything about EQ mode yet, but it's small and light enough that it should be easily possible...

[iapa]

13 hours ago, doublevodka said:

Think you've hit the nail on the head there, test the market first with a little teaser, then launch a "pro" or similar

ASIAIR started with a RPi in a plastic case, the progressed to metal case and power management, then added antenna, then an improvement in power management, their own chip and board.

Progressive improvements.

[Elp]

Companies usually have an upgrade tree mapped out in advance. It takes time to make amendments to design, new tooling for manufacturing and conduct trials, r+d, market testing etc so it's guaranteed there's more in the pipeline. If I had to guess, they may make one which interfaces with an Asiair, because you know, they can make more money selling additional airs that way.

Edited June 23, 2023 by Elp

[Marky1973]

Think this looks exciting. I've been 'out of the game' for a few years and this looks like a good cheap way to get back into things. I don't have much time for astronomy at the moment so this looks like a good option to get the bug back while I prepare the wallet for a drubbing!

I know it's not going to be comparable to 20 minute guided subs, but there are some examples over on Facebook of what you can get with a few minutes of 10 second exposures and I think it looks promising for amateurs like me

https://www.facebook.com/groups/seestar/permalink/231179049694385/

There is data included on that link and I had a play with the M51 data...20 minutes of 10s exposures in Siril....and the results are promising....not blow your socks off, but definitely promising....I have low expectations but have a pre-order in ... (I should also point out I am not the best at processing! 😁)

Edited July 4, 2023 by Marky1973
Clarification

[Louis D]

What's with all the flocculence in the background sky?  Is it sensitive enough to pick up some sort of Integrated Flux Nebula that I've never seen in other M51 images?

[LDW1]

1 hour ago, Marky1973 said:

Think this looks exciting. I've been 'out of the game' for a few years and this looks like a good cheap way to get back into things. I don't have much time for astronomy at the moment so this looks like a good option to get the bug back while I prepare the wallet for a drubbing!

I know it's not going to be comparable to 20 minute guided subs, but there are some examples over on Facebook of what you can get with a few minutes of 10 second exposures and I think it looks promising for amateurs like me

https://www.facebook.com/groups/seestar/permalink/231179049694385/

There is data included on that link and I had a play with the M51 data...20 minutes of 10s exposures in Siril....and the results are promising....not blow your socks off, but definitely promising....I have low expectations but have a pre-order in ... (I should also point out I am not the best at processing! 😁)

You did note a cost comparison that was part of your ' exciting ' / ' promising ' mention vs normal AP costs to delve into that sink hole, I hope ?  At that point the eyebrows should arch up pretty good, lol !

Edited July 4, 2023 by LDW1

[Elp]

Looks decent. Most of the pizzazz in AP images comes after the post processing, but even as a general observational tool it looks okay. And it likely doesn't weigh much at all so convenient to take places.

[Marky1973]

21 minutes ago, Louis D said:

What's with all the flocculence in the background sky?  Is it sensitive enough to pick up some sort of Integrated Flux Nebula that I've never seen in other M51 images?

Dunno, it's just 20 minutes of 10s subs that I downloaded from Google Docs....I suspect it is a combination of walking noise, poor processing and the seeing conditions at the time. Like I said it's promising, but will never compare to dedicated set ups. 

[Marky1973]

7 minutes ago, LDW1 said:

You did note a cost comparison that was part of your ' exciting ' / ' promising ' mention vs normal AP costs to delve into that sink hole, I hope ?  At that point the eyebrows should arch up pretty good, lol !

Considering my previous camera alone was over 3 times the cost of this, it's definitely a more attractive prospect to beginners!

[Elp]

Should just be noise. Short total integration time, many short subs equals general more noise overall after they're averaged. Dithering will be introduced later on so that will help with walking noise.

A future version should allow the provision to use your own camera for more shooting options.

Edited July 4, 2023 by Elp

[Marky1973]

1 minute ago, Elp said:

Looks decent. Most of the pizzazz in AP images comes after the post processing, but even as a general observational tool it looks okay. And it likely doesn't weigh much at all so convenient to take places.

Yeah, it's small and light enough to whip out anywhere....and apparently very quick to set up, so should be a nice gateway drug into the hobby ..or back into it. Or just a fun totally for the experts who just want a quick fix. There are a few more examples of images on FB, all with a low number of 10s subs, but all perfectly acceptable as examples of what is up there.

[LDW1]

4 minutes ago, Elp said:

Should just be noise. Short total integration time, many short subs equals general more noise overall.

What noise ?  Looks pretty d**n good for those that this camera was designed for ! Its not even in the highly costly AP category as has been mentioned many, many times !  I don't understand how anyone could / would compare the two ?  For some reason it is all being lost in translation don't we think !