What did you see tonight?

[SwiMatt]

@GrumpiusMaximus the RDF for me was a game changer but I understand that it might be tough to use at your height... possibly a RACI finder is more useful for you? And I feel you with glasses... I see better without glasses through the EP but absolutely need them for everything else.

@cloudsweeper well that's the theory, but for example I have a Mak, I will never get to 2° field of view without investing into a 2" diagonal or a new telescope. At the same time Stellarium is not good at correcting for heavy light pollution (at least - I haven't found a way), so often what I see in my EP does not correspond to what the software is showing. I have no doubt that I will get to a level where I can use the tools you described flawlessly to find my way around the sky, but so far the theory and the reality have been far from each other in my world

@bosun21 I have the book on my wishlist! Happy to know someone here suggests it thanks!

 

[AL1]

I spent new years flying home long haul and had the unexpected pleasure of seeing the Aurora Borealis over Greenland.  Light from a costal village can also be seen.  I think it is Nuuk.  The orange glow is reflection of the cabin lights off the window.   

[Stu1smartcookie]

Honestly we do have a sun and every now and then it’s visible in this murky , wet , climate of ours . Photo taken with the DwarfLabs scope this morning in a surprisingly sunny Witchford , Cambs . ( it won’t last ) 

oh , HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL . 

[Ags]

2 hours ago, Stu1smartcookie said:

Honestly we do have a sun and every now and then it’s visible in this murky , wet , climate of ours .

More likely to be a weather balloon. Did you check in Stellarium?

[Bugdozer]

15 hours ago, cloudsweeper said:

On the subject of hopping..............

The basic principles are I suppose similar for everyone.  

First, I get onto an easy start object, as close to target as possible.

Then depending the 'scope, I choose a low power EP giving close to 2 deg or 4 deg of field.  This then corresponds with the circles on Stellarium, so I follow patterns between EP and computer until target is reached.  (CTRL ^ H is used with a frac to get the same views.)

Of course, you can occasionally just scan to the target area, again using low power.  This is good for M31, Double Cluster, etc..

Doug.

The downside of this is that the thing you're trying to find needs to either exist in the pages of TLAO or else you have to have a laptop or phone out with Stellarium or similar on it, which isn't convenient if you're also running anything like Astrohopper on your phone or don't want to lug a laptop outside into a wet field etc. 

[Mircea]

18 hours ago, GrumpiusMaximus said:

I'll see if there's a thread already but please feel free to start one!  I've bought a copy of 'Turn Left at Orion' that I pulled out tonight, which is quite helpful. The main problem is that I absolutely hate having to get behind the red dot finder and constantly taking my glasses on and off.  I bought a new RDF that helps matters and mounted it the other day, so it's better but long term I'd rather have an RDF with a 90-degree diagonal mirror when funds allow.

I hate getting behind the red dot finder because I am a rather plentiful 21 Stone and 6'2".  Fully appreciate that's a 'me' issue...

I don't think an elbow RDF will be helpful.

After years of Urban Astronomy, I suggest the use of an RDF and a finder, I prefer and use RACI.

Imagine you are an astronomical guerilla fighter.

The RDF is the chopper which will drop you close to the point of contact with the enemy.

RACI + low magnification ocular are your snippers who will do the accurate hit.

In other words I don't ask and don't expect the RDF to bring me to the target, only close to it. It is a very important tool because is orienting the telescope toward that part of the sky where the star asterisms in the finder could be recognised.

But the RDF is best doing this when looking through it and besides it.

The red dot became part of the asterism I see on the sky and forming triangles or other geometrical figures. The place where to put the red dot I estimate it according to the atlas and is hopefully coincident with the target. ( I wish ... )

But on the city sky, this asterism is usually quite large, made by bright naked eyes stars, located faraway. This is why I don't have high expectations of accuracy from RDF.

Then it came the RACI and the low magnifying ocular of the telescope to finish the job.

 

Happy New Years to All, Mircea

[SwiMatt]

6 minutes ago, Mircea said:

I don't think an elbow RDF will be helpful.

After years of Urban Astronomy, I suggest the use of an RDF and a finder, I prefer and use RACI.

Imagine you are an astronomical guerilla fighter.

The RDF is the chopper which will drop you close to the point of contact with the enemy.

RACI + low magnification ocular are your snippers who will do the accurate hit.

In other words I don't ask and don't expect the RDF to bring me to the target, only close to it. It is a very important tool because is orienting the telescope toward that part of the sky where the star asterisms in the finder could be recognised.

But the RDF is best doing this when looking through it and besides it.

The red dot became part of the asterism I see on the sky and forming triangles or other geometrical figures. The place where to put the red dot I estimate it according to the atlas and is hopefully coincident with the target. ( I wish ... )

But on the city sky, this asterism is usually quite large, made by bright naked eyes stars, located faraway. This is why I don't have high expectations of accuracy from RDF.

Then it came the RACI and the low magnifying ocular of the telescope to finish the job.

 

Happy New Years to All, Mircea

Thank you Mircea!! Very useful.

Do you have a double socket to mount both RDF and RACI? Or is there another trick I'm not seeing to have both? (Assuming you have a mount with only one telescope...)

Edited January 1 by SwiMatt

[Mr Spock]

In my LP finders are more or less useless. I can't see much in them at all.

I use a RDF to get close to what I'm aiming for then use a low power eyepiece in the main scope. In the 4" I can get 3.7°; bit more difficult with the 12" though. I do have a 50mm RACI on that but it's only useful for bright stars. When I get close to where I want to be with either, I star hop from there to target.

[Elp]

I don't particularly like the typical finders, they're useless in my experience. Small field of view, and if it's a bright led in the red dot ones it affects your ability to distinguish between background sky and the finder centre, nonsensical if you're trying to find faint objects in the first place. Need for glasses on and off doesn't help either. I bought a Rigel Quikfinder, so much better and you can mentally measure star distances with its two illuminated angular distance circles, far better than guessing with a dot finder, and in a way you can also use it comfortably with both eyes open if you concentrate the perspective on the one eye. If you've never tried viewing in a high bortle zone you won't understand the frustration of using a red dot one in such conditions where even some stars can be difficult to see.

Edited January 1 by Elp

[SwiMatt]

29 minutes ago, Elp said:

If you've never tried viewing in a high bortle zone you won't understand the frustration of using a red dot one in such conditions where even some stars can be difficult to see.

I generally agree with this. For me a RDF was life changing with respect to the inversed 6x30 that came with my telescope, but the reality is that you're still heavily limited by how bright the stars around your target are.

[Elp]

Usually with DSOs where I am theyre so dim to the point of invisibility (even globulars) I usually know when I'm on point when there's suddenly an empty patch of sky devoid of pin point stars, a little bit of sweeping left right or up down invokes the averted vision to confirm. I wish is were easier, it's why I image more than view.

[Mircea]

SwiMatt

I have four  reflectors ( 125mm Dob, 148mm Newtonian on pipe-mount, 200mm Dob, 250mm Dob). ( One 76mm is under refurbishment and one 100mm is under construction. And no more reflectors ... if you are prepared to believe me. )

I use separate brackets for each finder. I don't have equatorial mounting so their position follow the same rule.

Axially, the position of the RDF is the upper most possible toward the mouth of the OTA. This is because I'm old and to see things  better I tend to move them away  the most possible. 

Radially, the RDF is on crest of the OTA.

Then I take the RACI and, by trial and error, I'm searching that position where I can look either in the finder, either in the main eyepiece while sitting on the observation chair.

The ten inch Dobsonian is commercial, it came with Radiant finder, similar to Telrad. It will be removed and replaced this year with an RDF, so also this telescope will follow same scheme.

 

I understand the issues other amateurs are having according to local circumstances.

I use this method learned from the guide of Urban Astronomy of Rod Mollise because is working for me. Sure, it is not a panacea , it is just a good method where fit.

I was thinking this way: if GrumpiusMaximus is seeing stars to point the RDF, maybe the method will work also for him.

 

However, I don't use the method on my small refractors ( more 60mm, one 90mm) or on ETX 90mm. There, I use an RDF or a conventional finder. The finders are at the lower end of the tube, is loosing much of the apeal.

Aaaand .... two 8x50mm RACI finders and that 60mm RACI for the bigger Dob, took out enough money from my pocket, I stop the madness here.

 

Mircea

 

 

Edited January 1 by Mircea

[Ags]

I am in Bortle 8-9 and use a cheap RDF and a 50 mm RACI to star hop. But I have to start from a bright star.

[Mircea]

3 hours ago, SwiMatt said:

I generally agree with this. For me a RDF was life changing with respect to the inversed 6x30 that came with my telescope, but the reality is that you're still heavily limited by how bright the stars around your target are.

You hit the nail on the head.

If there will be stars visible around the DSO, the RACI will make them visible ... maybe .

If no stars are visible than one need a new army.

A good option seems to be  Go To telescopes.

 

Something I forget to underline in the previous post.

It is obvious but the RACI finder is showing you the sky ''as it is''.

It is like navigating muddy waters or flying over misty mountains. In such extreme conditions you need the best and logical gear , you don't have time and no needing to invert, to count, to reverse, to imagine.

I know, when observing I am safe physically all the time . But something much more subtle is at stake.

The damages to the pleasure of observing are intelectual but I tell you, these are hurting and  hurting a lot.

Mircea

[Ed in UK]

With regards to Star Hopping, I use the RDF onto a visible star closely then use Sky Safari 6 as my guide to hop towards my target.

Sounds sad, but I normally sir done with Sky Safari prior to the session and look for the best hopping route and practise it on the tablet so I know roughly where I’m going and what too look for.

Sure I get lost and it may take several attempts to finally get to the target, but it makes the sense of achievement much more greater and rewarding.

I deliberately didn’t invest in a GoTo scope so that I could learn more about the sky.

Hopping thread sounds good to me.

[GrumpiusMaximus]

Star hopping thread here:
 

I'd be really interested to see what everybody has to say, beginners like myself, more experienced observers, etc.

[johnturley]

6 hours ago, GrumpiusMaximus said:

Star hopping thread here:
 

I'd be really interested to see what everybody has to say, beginners like myself, more experienced observers, etc.

With my 14in Newtonian (on which my Esprit 150 is piggybacked), I use old fashioned setting circles and a sidereal clock (actually an app on my phone these days). It's on a massive fork mount built by Astro Systems (Luton) in the 1980's, but because of its age it's not GOTO, just mains synchronous motor with variable frequency oscillator. It would be nice to upgrade the mount to GOTO, but because of its design, it would probably cost a fortune to do so, if it was even possible.

John 

Edited January 2 by johnturley

[Paz]

Tonight I got a nice grab and go set up ready for having a quick look at M42 later, but when later came, so did the clouds so it didn't even get a run out. I can keep it on stand by though.

[Stu1smartcookie]

10 hours ago, Paz said:

Tonight I got a nice grab and go set up ready for having a quick look at M42 later, but when later came, so did the clouds so it didn't even get a run out. I can keep it on stand by though.

often thought about one of those mounts , looks great . 

[Mr Spock]

I've got one of those sitting in a cupboard - never use it.

[John]

Things are looking more optimistic from Friday onwards here when colder but, hopefully, clearer weather arrives 🙂🤞

I got some naked eye glimpses of Orion and Jupiter last night but those were in gaps in the scudding clouds and heavy showers. 

 

Edited January 3 by John

[JeremyS]

13 hours ago, Paz said:

Tonight I got a nice grab and go set up ready for having a quick look at M42 later, but when later came, so did the clouds so it didn't even get a run out. I can keep it on stand by though.

My Lunt 50 Ha scope is permanently set up on a Vixen Porta like that. It’s pining to be taken out to see the Sun.

[Zermelo]

3 hours ago, John said:

Things are looking more optimistic from Friday onwards here when colder but, hopefully, clearer weather arrives

Yes, I noticed that too. I don't normally pay much attention to forecasts beyond tomorrow, but this does seem like a genuine change to clear and cold for a few days. Fingers crossed.

[GrumpiusMaximus]

Around about 5PM, I was out taking the dog for a walk and noticed that Jupiter was sitting pretty.  Grabbed the 70ED and went to have a look.  A good view, with four moons (and a co-incident dim star that looked like a fifth moon much further out in the FOV).  Clear bands with some of the turbulence on the edges of the bands visible, I was quite pleased given the relatively widefield view.

I finally cleaned the corrector plate of my C5 this afternoon so whilst I had the opportunity, grabbed it and put it on the mount.  Got it up to 125X with my 20mm WO Swan and a 2X Barlow and thought it looked rather dim.  Well it was.  Not because there was anything wrong with the optics (turned out cleaning the corrector plate was the solution) but because - you guessed it - thick cloud had rapidly started rolling in.  In the cloud breaks I did get a very nice view indeed and got more detail of the cloud bands, although nothing I could really describe.

I decided to do a quick collimation test of the C5 on Jupiter and it was absolutely fine.  A few months ago, I had an 'incident' whereby I tried to fit a new finder shoe and the screws were too long, interfering with the primary mirror.  I thought there was a collimation issue, so I adjusted the collimation  lot.   During this, the secondary decided to rotate and shift in the corrector plate.  So I had to change the screws out, pull the corrector plate out and re-align the secondary and tighten it up, then re-collimate.  I did collimate it correctly (it took far longer than it should have) but obviously didn't clean the corrector thoroughly enough when I put it back in...

Nice to know the C5 is actually fine.  I've been enjoying my 70ED lately but it's good to have options.

[John]

I've grabbed the opportunity to have a look at Jupiter before supper. The seeing seems pretty good and my little Vixen 102 is showing very nice belt detail and the great red spot as starts it's traverse across Jupiter's disk this evening. Unusually for Jupiter from here, even 200x is showing good contrast in the jovian cloud tops.

Lots of clouds lurking though so I have to be ready to pop the scope under cover quickly but it is nice to be seeing something celestial again 🙂

 

Edited January 3 by John