Can't get kit, common experience?

[AndyNotts]

Hi

I want to know if others are having the same problem getting telescopes or mounts? I know there are delays in the supply chain but I placed an order with FLO in February for a Skywatcher 130P-DS and EQM-35 and all I get told is it will be next month and each month I'm told it will be another month. I've read plenty on delays and issues but they have all been describing delays as weeks. 

I want to sanity check that this happening to others

[johninderby]

Welcome to the club. 😁

Think one big problem dealers are having is that suppliers can’t give them accurate delivery times just estimates. BTW FLO seems to be doing better than most.

[Tomatobro]

I am afraid it is. I deal with a wide range of suppliers and all are reporting delays for out of stock items.

No retail supplier would want to delay shipping but no one has stock.

[ONIKKINEN]

Cheap models suffer more than others too, with the influx of lockdown astronomers in the last year and a half looling to buy beginner equipment. I bought my EQM35 for 750e about a year ago when it was in stock. Havent really seen it in stock since and the price has hiked up accordingly.

I was looking at the PDS models of Skywatcher newtonians but decided not to buy one since it was out of stock everywhere. I dont think this issue is going away any time soon. I waited several months for a few items a while ago and then just decided to order things that aro shown as in stock for now.

[Zermelo]

I think one part of the problem is that even when the shipments arrive in the country on the date they were promised, they may not contain enough stock to satisfy all the suppliers with customers waiting.  So everyone gets a reduced allocation, and some are going to be unlucky.  That happened to me six months ago (not from FLO - I've found their wait times to be accurate so far).

[Neil27]

1 hour ago, AndyNotts said:

Hi

I want to know if others are having the same problem getting telescopes or mounts? I know there are delays in the supply chain but I placed an order with FLO in February for a Skywatcher 130P-DS and EQM-35 and all I get told is it will be next month and each month I'm told it will be another month. I've read plenty on delays and issues but they have all been describing delays as weeks. 

I want to sanity check that this happening to others

Everyone is suffering Andy, I did earlier in the year. I enquired about availability of an Esprit 120 in January and was told to place an order and wait. I didn’t want to do that as why should I pay the full amount for something that isn’t even in the country yet? I don’t with a car or house so why Astro gear?
I received an email notification last week, approx 25 weeks later that they had stock. No thanks, managed to snag an Esprit 150 second hand in lovely condition for a few hundred more than originally planned.

Have you considered second hand?

Hope you get your delivery soon Andy.

[ampleamp]

I would be spending some time in the classified section here, or at https://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/browse.php

In my experience the vast vast majority of second hand kit is of very good quality and the vast majority of people who sell would declare any imperfections anyway; i would be more cautious about placing a 'wanted' ad and always try and speak to someone on the phone before parting with any money but this may well be your fastest way to find what you want with some longer nights being more apparent now

[Carbon Brush]

A second to @ampleamp advice.
The used kit on this site tends to be in good condition and honestly described.

Remember if you buy used and find you have not chosen wisely (I didn't realise that 12" dob is taller than me!) you can usually sell on for little loss.

Much of my kit has been bought used which has allowed me 'buy and try' with little risk.
I'm still trying to get my head around the 'sell on' part though, being a hoarder😁

HTH, David.

[AndyNotts]

I'm glad to hear others having similar issues. It's frustrating having so many missed deadlines which they keep giving. I have to admit wondering if customers who ordered when prices were lower are being pushed back down the queue so companies can make more money during the shortage and prices are higher.

I thought about second hand at the start but am now locked into the cycle of 'if it's only a few weeks is it worth cancelling to pay extra on second hand'.

 

 

[Alan White]

19 minutes ago, AndyNotts said:

I have to admit wondering if customers who ordered when prices were lower are being pushed back down the queue so companies can make more money during the shortage and prices are higher.

Andy, I very much doubt FLO or any other reputable astro supplier would do this, they have a normally small market to supply on a regular basis and making money from an oportune moment would be very damaging to them all.

I expect the delays are all supply chain as others have said, and of course the knock ons from Covid around the world.

@FLO are a very highly regarded and respected retailer, I have always had excellent and honest relations with them and they normally go over and beyond on customer service.

 

Edited August 9, 2021 by Alan White

[chrispj]

There's an awful lot of equipment on the second hand market that appears barely used that is at a good price. Having bought quite a wide range of items from the classifieds here and on Astrobuysell (from a 10" Dob through finders and diagonals to a rapidly increasing collection of eyepieces) I would say I haven't been disappointed in the condition of anything, it's all been well described. If you see something that matches what you need I wouldn't really have any qualms about buying second hand rather than waiting an indeterminate amount of time for delivery.

 

I am also with Mr Brush though, I must get round to selling on the one or two eyepieces that don't quite work for me (I made a couple of mistakes with eye relief as I wear glasses) or are now surplus to requirements having been usurped by shinier items!

[Tiny Clanger]

Yep, I echo what has been said, FLO are fair (they queue orders strictly by date) and would not prioritise people who paid more. Their website comms with their stock control is accurate too, so if the page says '3 in stock' and you buy one, the moment you pay and the order is finalised,  the stock available goes down to 2 .

Supplies are looking dodgy for months, second hand is probably your best bet for picking up something this yyear, and now is the time to start looking, while folk who bought in lockdown but now want to turn the kit back into cash are keen to sell , but the nights are not long and dark, so there's less competition from the next round of seasonal buyers  (and Christmas gift shoppers too ) .

I've bought various things from the buy/sell section on here. if it's a popular item well priced you need to be quick, send the poster a private message  as fast as possible expressing an interest, I always check their profile , and wouldn't buy from someone with zero post history unless I could collect the item  in person,  while I'm happy to receive stuff by post from established folk because I have  the ability to see how long they have been a member, what content they have posted etc. is a reassurance that I'm sending my cash to an honest individual.

Be careful about buying from abroad though, even from a private buyer you will probably be hit with import duty and charges and VAT for anything  over a certain amount ... from memory £135, but don't quote me on that. I'd leave the order with FLO active, but look for second hand, you can cancel the FLO order easily if you manage to find what you want elsewhere.

Heather

PS, didn't I see the Ever Given container ship had recently actually limped here after it's sideways sojourn ? Might be some astro containers being unloaded from that ..

[doublevodka]

It's a global supply chain issue and not limited to astro kit either, various factors at play including the pandemic, increased demand, the suez canal malarky etc.

The second hand market was also heavily inflated because of demand, although that seems to be tailing off now as the lockdown astronomers seem to have started selling off their kit, over the last few weeks I've seen a fair amount of barely used kit appear on facebook etc. and the prices are slowly becoming a bit more reasonable

To be fair to @FLO they've been pretty open and transparent about the issues throughout even creating an "In Stock Telescopes" section on their site - https://www.firstlightoptics.com/telescopes-in-stock.html the cupboard was very bare only a couple of months ago, at points I've seen only 2 scopes in there, hopefully yours comes into stock soon 🤞

[jacobingonzo]

read recently that there has been a major outbreak of the delta variant at one of the big chinese shipping terminals - workers are isolating and causing more logjams- Shipping container rates have recently risen sharply to $20,000 per container so Im afraid the delays and price hikes are here to stay for a while im afraid

[AndyNotts]

So my experience of @FLOhas not been so great, I don't want to make this a thread about bad service. Misery loves company so I'm relieved others have had similar issues getting orders filled.

[StevieDvd]

1 hour ago, AndyNotts said:

So my experience of @FLOhas not been so great, I don't want to make this a thread about bad service. Misery loves company so I'm relieved others have had similar issues getting orders filled.

Sad to hear that, but from experience with FLO they will bend over backwards to help, pre and post purchase they value their clients.

[PEMS]

There was a program or something about similar a few days ago - when the ship the blocked the Suez arrived at the UK. That alone appears to have caused a months delay in arrivals. Then someone pointed out that even if your container was booked for say a departure date of say March 1 that there was a high chance that it would not actually get on a ship for 3 maybe 4 weeks longer.

After that came the Covid problem. If a ship had docked at a high risk country the next one may not allow it to dock and off load. That effectively meant a wait as the stacking performed is to arrange containers top down in order of off loading. As the next ports containers are under the present ones it causes problems. Think Mexico is now on the UK Red list so if a ship from Mexico arrived what would the UK enforce on it. That has to be taken into account. And yes I know Mexico is not on the China-UK shipping but it is an example.

One person who buys in goods said thay had previously never paid more then £2,250 for a container, the prices had now jumped to over £15,000. Maybe a slower ship would cost less, say £7000. But that adds a delay.

Both items you have ordered are Skywatcher. And Skywatcher equipment comes via OVL at Bury St Edmunds. All UK retailers are in a way dependant on what OVL say will be arrival times. And I seriously doubt OVL will be 100% honest and say "We have not idea, could be several months." So I expect that the dates or wait times from FLO (and others) are as given to them by OVL. Every chance that your items will actually never see FLO but get drop shipped from OVL.

Have found that FLO do answer emails, should have had one with confirmation of the order, questions@FLO or similar I think. However I stongly suspect that at present they cannot realistically give a specific date.

Guess that you have been by chance and circumstance ended up a poor position. However doubt that for the items requested that anywhere else will be able to improve.

[Carbon Brush]

Exactly what @PEMS said. I have seen all this, and worse, in my work.

The global supply situation has not (as far as I can tell) improved this year and the end of the tunnel is not yet in sight.
As an example, I placed £10K orders for parts from a major semiconductor manufacturer in January. They have not yet given a firm delivery date.
But at least I have not paid up front.

If in your position, I would leave the order with FLO open. But keep an eye on the SGL classifieds and other reputable sources of used kit.
If you see something suitable, go for it. Similar scopes and mounts do come up on this site.
Good advice yesterday on this subject from @Tiny Clanger

As an example, an hour ago, an HEQ5 with various good mods came up on the sale section.

You can cancel your FLO order at any time and they are very good about taking back unwanted orders even if they have shipped. Check their terms.
In the current climate, 'your' order won't gather dust on their shelves if returned or cancelled😁

HTH, David.

[Richard N]

21 hours ago, Carbon Brush said:

You can cancel your FLO order at any time and they are very good about taking back unwanted orders even if they have shipped. Check their terms.
In the current climate, 'your' order won't gather dust on their shelves if returned or cancelled😁

I am sure they will be completely professional but by gaming the system they incur all the costs both ways (and those costs are probably considerably more than just the carriage costs that you pay). It is also likely that they will be unable to sell the item again as new so it will end up discounted as a return. On some products this can completely eliminate any profit and can even result in a loss for the business. I ran a very similar sort of business for many years...

Edited August 11, 2021 by Richard N

[Carbon Brush]

@Richard N In circumstances where a buyer simply changes his mind, or didn't like the delivery driver, then I fully agree the retailer gets the short straw.
Legally right and morally right are not the same. I would certainly not like (as a seller) to have this activity imposed on me. As a buyer, this practice does not sit well with me.

In this case, if I understand the situation correctly, it is not a simple change of mind.
The retailer has not delivered in the time quoted when ordering. He has extended delivery more than once. The OP ordered February and is still awaiting the goods.
It is due to matters outside his control. But he is holding the buyers money, and has done for some time.
In this case it is, in my view, reasonable for the buyer to be able look for a different product and/or supplier, and not incur any penalty.

Fortunately for retailers, their bulk  parcel agreements with carriers mean they pay far less to ship or recover an item than we as individuals pay.
Though they still lose out on paperwork, returned goods inspection and the like.
But if an alternative product from elsewhere, and the original order cross paths, it minimises the retailers penalty.

There have been two situations where FLO have reminded me that they are happy to accept product returns.
The first was a clearance scope that I was not sure about. They said, by email, if you don't like it, we will take it back. No arguments.

The second was Vixen wide field binos. They were little known in the community at that time.
I particularly wanted to take them on holiday to give them a good run on clear skies, but delivery before travel was uncertain, as was how well I would get on with them.
Again FLO said, if you don't get on with them on holiday, you have time to return them when you get back. If they don't arrive before travel, again, just return them.

With both items, I liked what I bought so did not put the returns process to the test. Though I am confident it would have worked out.

There was one time FLO failed to deliver. Not their fault. The carriers van got stolen. Apparently the stupid driver got out and left the keys inside.
As soon as FLO were made aware, they offered immediate refund. It was another clearance offer so a replacement was not on the table.
In this case I opted for vouchers as I expected to (and did) use them quite soon. I know that money back to the card would have cost FLO.

Hope this clarifies the situation.

Clear skies,  David.

 

[Morat_Gurgeh]

Similar here, ordered my scope in January and received it this week! The situation is not good and my only wish would have been better communication from FLO. I'm sure they are glad to see the back of me and my order. One thing is certain though,  I'll certainly not be paying as much as I did this time on anything that's on back order again.

First scope so now I just need to wait for some clear sky.

[scotty38]

Late to this thread and can't help but reply but I too have had fantastic service from @FLO I bought a scope used on here that developed a focuser issue and they were brilliant in sorting it for me and the way they behaved was as if I'd just bought from them the day before. How they deal with issues is one of the true signs of their quality as being able to ship things they can't get hold of is pretty difficult.

Edited September 3, 2021 by scotty38

[Orange Smartie]

My own experience was very positive with FLO. They have agreed to honour the prices for out of stock items, which must have knock-on implications for them. Ultimately, I chose to go with a different telescope and I'm glad I did - they were very helpful in allowing that.

I did wonder about the delivery times advertised on their website, since these seemed a little optimistic; however I'm sure in retrospect they are reflective of the best estimates given the exceptional circumstances. 

Pete