Telescope Manufacturers

[Goldfinger]

Good Morning

I'm curious if there's one particular telescope manufacturer that offers better value for the money than other manufacturers. Or do they pretty much offer the same features for roughly the same money.

I'm a little financially challenged and would like to get the most bang for my buck.

Any opinions would be most welcome.

 

[Astro Noodles]

Hi Goldfinger.

I think that Skywatcher are considered to be very good value for money.

[Dark Vader]

Hello and welcome 

I take it being financially challenged you won't be heading into the imaging money pit just yet and are looking at visual only?

If so, best bang for buck is widely considered to be a Dob, generally an 8" Skywatcher. Purely functional, manually controlled and with most of the price going into the optics. Others are, as they say, available. 

Its the one I went for as a beginner middle of last year... excellent bit of kit for a starter scope.

Andy

[Cosmic Geoff]

A number of brands, Skywatcher, Celestron, Meade, Bresser, Omegron, etc offer competitive prices - all these are in fact manufactured in China, sometimes in the same factories, and some of these brands have common ownership.  Then there are premium brands like Takahashi. What constitutes 'value for money' is a matter of opinion, as the popular brands often include annoying cut-price features in their products.

Astronomy is not a cheap hobby, so if you select a telescope solely on the basis of low price, the result is likely to be disappointment.

[Dave61]

Just like buying a camera I think, some folk love Canon while others love Nikon, Fuji or Sony.  So many brands but what I might like/love others might hate, me I've had a lot of cameras over the years and now own Sony Full Frame and one Fuji camera.  So like I said what some might like others might not, as it's how it feels and moves IMO.

[mikeDnight]

If you looked only at the Skywatcher brand, you are unlikely to come away disappointed. Skywatcher offer very good quality and are arguably The Bang For Buck go-to brand.  Some of their scopes compete very well with some of the very best high end optics, and will keep anyone of us entertained for a lifetime. 

[Cosmic Geoff]

8 minutes ago, mikeDnight said:

Skywatcher offer very good quality

I think this needs some qualification.  Overall their quality matches that of the other popular brands and the quality of the main optical parts (main mirrors and objectives) is generally good.

But there is plenty one could point to as being less than perfect.

From personal experience: 

The equatorial mounts have a latitude adjustment system (paddle + latitude bolts) whih has given many users trouble with bent bolts.

The Synscan GoTo system baffles many users, especially novices.

The starter eyepieces supplied are of poor quality and generally need to be replaced.

The basic Red Dot finders are unreliable and start to malfunction or fail to turn on after a few months use.

Others have complained about the too-basic focusers on some of their cheaper telescopes.

In fairness other brands may use almost identical sub-standard parts.

This underlines my previous point about astronomy not being a cheap hobby.  Some of these issues can be overcome by spending more money on accessories. Or by buying a premium product that costs a lot more.

 

[Louis D]

If you're willing to spend just a bit more than the Skywatcher (Synta) level, the Bresser/Explore Scientific (JOC) Dobs are better engineered (better alt axis, better focuser, etc.).  So, it really depends on your definition of best bang for the buck.

By best bang for the buck, do you mean it functions at the lowest possible cost like a Trabant or functions fairly well for a bit more like an original VW Bug?  Neither's a Rolls Royce (a full custom Dob or hand figured refractor), but both might get you from point A to point B on any given day.

[Shimrod]

If you are in the UK, Orion Telescopes might be worth looking at - they come in a bit cheaper  than Skywatcher and there is a further 8% off if you use Topcashback. 

[iapa]

1 hour ago, Cosmic Geoff said:

I think this needs some qualification.  Overall their quality matches that of the other popular brands and the quality of the main optical parts (main mirrors and objectives) is generally good.

But there is plenty one could point to as being less than perfect.

From personal experience: 

The equatorial mounts have a latitude adjustment system (paddle + latitude bolts) whih has given many users trouble with bent bolts.

The Synscan GoTo system baffles many users, especially novices.

The starter eyepieces supplied are of poor quality and generally need to be replaced.

The basic Red Dot finders are unreliable and start to malfunction or fail to turn on after a few months use.

Others have complained about the too-basic focusers on some of their cheaper telescopes.

In fairness other brands may use almost identical sub-standard parts.

This underlines my previous point about astronomy not being a cheap hobby.  Some of these issues can be overcome by spending more money on accessories. Or by buying a premium product that costs a lot more.

 

On the other, from my view,

• the Celestron mounts have  better altitude and latitude adjustments.
• NextStar+ is far simpler than Synscan

I have botch Celestron and SkyWatcher optics at a variety of price points, and am happy with both.

Synta manufacture both Celestron and Skywatcher amongst others, although Taiwanese, they manufacture in mainland Chine.

There’s a couple of other Taiwanese manufacturer, Guang Shen Optics and LongPerng who are a bit more expensive, but, also of a higher quality.

If you could advise budget, and what you be using your telescope for primarily that would allow more considered advice.

[iapa]

3 hours ago, Goldfinger said:

Good Morning

I'm curious if there's one particular telescope manufacturer that offers better value for the money than other manufacturers. Or do they pretty much offer the same features for roughly the same money.

I'm a little financially challenged and would like to get the most bang for my buck.

Any opinions would be most welcome.

 

If you think you are financially challenged now…….. just wait

What sort of budget are you looking at?

[Cosmic Geoff]

13 minutes ago, Shimrod said:

If you are in the UK, Orion Telescopes might be worth looking at - they come in a bit cheaper  than Skywatcher and there is a further 8% off if you use Topcashback. 

Be careful to distinguish between this Orion, (which may be the US-based company) and  Orion Optics UK, who offer premium services. 

[vlaiv]

Most good points raised so far, I have just two things I would like to add:

- Prices of astronomy gear are higher right now due to current situation. SkyWatcher is no now more expensive than it was last year this time (or before that).

- If you find that particular scope is best bang for the buck new - then look it up second hand. Well cared for instrument can be purchased for 60-70% of price of new item. One just needs a bit of patience for wanted item to show up second hand (and sometimes you don't need to wait that long at all).

Edited April 27, 2021 by vlaiv
missing w changes the meaning completely

[iapa]

22 minutes ago, Shimrod said:

If you are in the UK, Orion Telescopes might be worth looking at - they come in a bit cheaper  than Skywatcher and there is a further 8% off if you use Topcashback. 

The link is to the company Optronic Technologies Inc. tradingas ORION Telescope and Binoculars, the page is just to indicate UK prices, and ships from the USA. I think their products are manufactured by Synta again

Orion Optics sell somewhat more expensive products - I believe that their products components are manufactured in the UK .

I came a cros this recently: 

https://telescopenights.com/celestron-vs-orion-vs-skywatcher/

[iapa]

8 minutes ago, vlaiv said:

Most good points raised so far, I have just two things I would like to add:

- Prices of astronomy gear are higher right now due to current situation. SkyWatcher is no more expensive than it was last year this time (or before that).

- If you find that particular scope is best bang for the buck new - then look it up second hand. Well cared for instrument can be purchased for 60-70% of price of new item. One just needs a bit of patience for wanted item to show up second hand (and sometimes you don't need to wait that long at all).

In the UK, I have noticed Skywatcher prices have risen quite dramatically in the past year. Suppose it depends where you are looking

[vlaiv]

1 minute ago, iapa said:

In the UK, I have noticed Skywatcher prices have risen quite dramatically in the past year. Suppose it depends where you are looking

Yep, that is what I wanted to say - missing letter

 

[Shimrod]

15 minutes ago, iapa said:

The link is to the company Optronic Technologies Inc. tradingas ORION Telescope and Binoculars, the page is just to indicate UK prices, and ships from the USA. I think their products are manufactured by Synta again

Orion Optics sell somewhat more expensive products - I believe that their products components are manufactured in the UK .

I came a cros this recently: 

https://telescopenights.com/celestron-vs-orion-vs-skywatcher/

It's the US Orion (hence the link), but they ship from the Netherlands to the UK.

"The majority of our orders are shipped via economy service from the Netherlands. In-stock items will arrive 5-7 business days after receipt of your order" from Shipping info

[Tiny Clanger]

4 hours ago, Goldfinger said:

Good Morning

I'm curious if there's one particular telescope manufacturer that offers better value for the money than other manufacturers. Or do they pretty much offer the same features for roughly the same money.

I'm a little financially challenged and would like to get the most bang for my buck.

Any opinions would be most welcome.

 

I suspect that astro kit (apart from at the stratospherically expensive brands high end ) is pretty much 'you get what you pay for' , any bargain buys from the reputable brands are just that, and there is a pretty good correlation between price and quality , irrespective of the label on the tube.

My recommendations for thrifty buying include spending on a set up with a simple to use , sturdy dobsonian base where most of the money has gone into the optics, not been shared between optics, rickety tall tripod and imprecise wobbly head. And buy second hand . And whatever you do, avoid department store 'scopes.

Above all, research will avoid you wasting money on something which promises much but will be a let down . Ed Ting on youtube is a good place to start , especially if , like him, you are US based.

[Zermelo]

There's no right answer to that question, it seems.

As with many enterprises, the relationship between spend and the resulting quality/performance delivered is a curve that starts off steeply but flattens off.  That is, you will usually notice more benefit from spending an additional £50 on an entry level scope that you will on a more expensive one. But that "benefit" is to some degree subjective too: after a year in the hobby, having used only two scopes so far, I'm still impressed by equipment that would be below par for many experienced observers, and I don't judge my skills and expectations to be developed to a degree that would justify, say, a £300 eyepiece. I don't yet know what I don't know.

At the budget end of the business there is always competition on headline price and an imperative to cut costs where possible. That could manifest as lower production standards, or inclusion of lower quality components, or deliberately sub-optimal design. But from everything I've read in this forum there seems to be a consensus that there is a threshold below which no beginner should start, without risking terminal disappointment (i.e. the department store "500x special"), whereas aiming above that line you have a decent chance of an experience that will be rewarding enough to continue.

The good news, it seems to me, is that (with a very small number of exceptions) the Skywatcher-level brands (i) employ sound designs, and (ii) cut costs on their lower-end models in ways that make sense. On the second point I mean, for example, that if you buy a SW 150mm reflector, the primary's figure and coating is of the same spec on a variety of models at different price points. But at the entry level you will get an RDF rather than a 9x50, and a basic rack-and-pinion focuser, not a dual-speed Crayford. And you seem to get only basic eyepieces however much you spend. This is how I would want it as a beginner on a budget. I can (and have) upgraded eyepieces to get a better experience, and they will move on to the next scope. I've tweaked the focuser to improve that. I've replaced the RDF with a RACI, which again is re-deployable, and I've spent some time learning the quirks of the scope setup to improve its consistency. I expect I'm now getting close to the maximum performance that a scope like this can offer. What I don't want to find when buying even an entry-level scope is that the main optics are substandard, because I'm not going to start replacing those.

Yes, if I had spent more to start with I could have bought something with higher spec accessories, but with hindsight I do attach some value to seeing the incremental improvements as I learn the hobby, and also I'm more in control of which elements I upgrade. If I do outgrow any of my purchases, the second-hand value for well-looked-after items is decent. And even if I'd not had the funds to improve anything, I would still have had an instrument capable of keeping me occupied for several years.

Then there is the question of production quality/consistency. I didn't research this very much before I bought, though I have read some reports of the odd duff item from some of the mainstream manufacturers. But as was pointed out above, much of the volume equipment now comes out of the same factories with different badges, so I'm not convinced that this is a significant brand differentiator. The safeguard here is, as always, buying from a reputable dealer. And I think it's to the credit of the sector as a whole that they have managed to move from a low-volume, higher-skilled model in times past to a much larger market, while still offering reasonable standards.

So, yes, it can be an expensive hobby, but I don't think it has to be. Provided your budget is enough to get you beyond the "toy scope" threshold, there will be something that can deliver an enjoyable experience, and a progression pathway if you have the inclination and cash.

[Louis D]

1 hour ago, vlaiv said:

Well cared for instrument can be purchased for 60-70% of price of new item.

Perhaps of the newly inflated 2021 prices.  I'm seeing asking prices closer to 85% to 100% of 2019 and earlier pricing.

[vlaiv]

12 minutes ago, Louis D said:

Perhaps of the newly inflated 2021 prices.  I'm seeing asking prices closer to 85% to 100% of 2019 and earlier pricing.

No question that current price rise of new items also pushed second hand market up.

Seems like everything has gone up in prices - it's like everyone is trying to make up for losses due do C19 and easiest thing to do is too increase cost of goods and services. Couple that with quantitative easing last couple of years - we now have very decent level of inflation happening.

[oymd]

With regards to refractors, and excluding all the super brands, who else thinks that Altair Astro's refractors are really high quality?

I have SW Evo, Altair Astr & WO refractors, and have handled TS optics, Esprits & Explore Scientific fracs, but to me at least, the Altair Astro refractors exude quality.

I realise most of the above brands source their refractors from similar factories in China, but for some reason, the Altair Astro refractors feel much much better made?

Who else agrees with my observation regarding AA?

Edited April 27, 2021 by oymd

[Peter_D]

One manufacturer I would recommend for having good value is buying a used Vixen telescope and / or mount if you see one going relatively cheaply. Vixen has a very good reputation , but especially so in the 1980s and 1990s. Maybe with the overall lack of equipment it's not so much the case now, but over the past few years I've seen a regular appearance of used (unfashionable?) Vixen achromatic and 114mm f7.9 reflectors on the used market - I am biased as I bought some gear myself but definitely it was a good way to get me going in the hobby. 

Edited April 27, 2021 by Peter_D

[iapa]

2 hours ago, Shimrod said:

It's the US Orion (hence the link), but they ship from the Netherlands to the UK.

"The majority of our orders are shipped via economy service from the Netherlands. In-stock items will arrive 5-7 business days after receipt of your order" from Shipping info

Sorry, I’d not spotted that, but, my main point was that Orion Optics design and source their components in the UK.

[Goldfinger]

Thanks for all the replies. You've all been a huge help.

I have a much better idea on what to purchase.

Went on eBay and started browsing. Found this odd looking Dobosonian telescope. Obviously a custom job. If i didn't live so far away, I might have made the trip to find out more about it.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/284271608042