Altair Starwave Ascent 102ED f7

[ScouseSpaceCadet]

5 hours ago, Mark at Beaufort said:

I have really enjoyed your reports on this scope. I often regretted selling my 4 inch Astro Tech ED frac and your statements about this particular frac has got me thinking. This does appear to be good instrument at under £500

Thanks Mark. Please bear in mind, as you can probably tell, I'm not an expert.

I've just reported my experience drawing on a little knowledge gained over a couple of years observing. However, there's no doubt in my mind for under £500 the Ascent 102ED is worth it. Considering the next models up are around £750 - £800 do you get an extra 50%+ performance increase for the 50% extra cost? I don't know. That's for others with more money than me burning a hole in their pocket to debate. 

[Mark at Beaufort]

5 minutes ago, ScouseSpaceCadet said:

Thanks Mark. Please bear in mind, as you can probably tell, I'm not an expert.

I've just reported my experience drawing on a little knowledge gained over a couple of years observing. However, there's no doubt in my mind for under £500 the Ascent 102ED is worth it. Considering the next models up are around £750 - £800 do you get an extra 50%+ performance increase for the 50% extra cost? I don't know. That's for others with more money than me burning a hole in their pocket to debate. 

You made some very positive statements about magnification and comparison with other scopes you have used. Your comment about the difference between FPL51 and FDL53 and the extra cost for visual observing is very relevant. I am sure your post has been very helpful for those who want a reasonable refractor without spending a fortune.

[Stu]

42 minutes ago, ScouseSpaceCadet said:

Thanks Mark. Please bear in mind, as you can probably tell, I'm not an expert.

I've just reported my experience drawing on a little knowledge gained over a couple of years observing. However, there's no doubt in my mind for under £500 the Ascent 102ED is worth it. Considering the next models up are around £750 - £800 do you get an extra 50%+ performance increase for the 50% extra cost? I don't know. That's for others with more money than me burning a hole in their pocket to debate. 

What is an expert anyway? All any of us can do is tell it how it is. It sounds like an excellent scope, and a bargain at that price. It’s actually quite hard to compare scopes from memory, you never quite know if the sky conditions were the same etc. Side by side on the same night, same mag and eyepiece is the only real way.

A good 4” refractor should serve you well for a life time, so do enjoy it! 👍

[John]

A 4 inch refractor of this quality for under £500 is an outstanding buy IMHO.

And thanks to your review, we know that it is a good one too

It does beg the question of what we actually get when we pay 4x-5x more for a similar spec scope from a premium brand with a different type of glass in it

I suspect "not a lot" is the answer for many !

Thanks for compiling and posting your thoughts on this scope. Having done similar stuff in the past, mostly on eyepieces, I fully appreciate that it takes time and thought to do this and it can also be quite a nerve racking process "sticking your head above the parapet", so to speak

 

Edited February 27, 2021 by John

[Stu]

14 hours ago, John said:

A 4 inch refractor of this quality for under £500 is an outstanding buy IMHO.

And thanks to your review, we know that it is a good one too

It does beg the question of what we actually get when we pay 4x-5x more for a similar spec scope from a premium brand with a different type of glass in it

I suspect "not a lot" is the answer for many !

Thanks for compiling and posting your thoughts on this scope. Having done similar stuff in the past, mostly on eyepieces, I fully appreciate that it takes time and thought to do this and it can also be quite a nerve racking process "sticking your head above the parapet", so to speak

 

Under real world conditions in the U.K. John that is likely true. I think the high end gear comes into it’s own when everything is right and the sky is very transparent and/or stable. Then you can pile on the magnification or pull out the fainter threshold objects perhaps. That doesn’t happen very often though. 

I know from seeing Zeta Herculis better through my Heritage 150p (I think, might even have been the 130p) than my FC100DC that even entry level scopes can humble expensive kit if they have decent optics and more aperture.

I do have faith in the FC100DC though, it shows me wonderful solar, lunar and planetary views and I’m very happy with that, but as we are seeing, the entry priced kit is still excellent. That is to be welcomed as more people can now enjoy a good 4” apo refractor which is something every astronomer should have in their Astro shed, in my humble opinion 🤣.

I have tried to highlight the merits of the Heritage 130p and 150p for example so new starters know that they don’t have to spend a fortune to get a very credible and capable scope.

Great review and an interesting thread 👍

[mikeDnight]

20 hours ago, John said:

It does beg the question of what we actually get when we pay 4x-5x more for a similar spec scope from a premium brand with a different type of glass in it

 

I know! I know!!

An empty bank account! 😢

[Helical]

High I know I'm a bit late to the party but I must I have been mightily impressed  by ScouseSpaceCadets review. Seriously thinking of replacing my 150p Newtonian with it.

Would I be loosing out on much if I do? 

Ian

[ScouseSpaceCadet]

1 hour ago, Helical said:

Would I be loosing out on much if I do? 

Ian

Probably not. The 150p has a 47mm secondary mirror (33% central obstruction) and spider vanes so that puts the light grasp of both scopes not so far apart.

What you do gain with the 102mm ED refractor is higher contrast, no diffraction spikes, a more precise focuser and if using a GEM mount, no awkward eyepiece angles. Also the ability to increase magnification on good nights without loss of image quality and tired older eyes will thank you for the slightly higher f7 focal ratio. As will many of the entry level to mid range eyepieces. Chromatic abberation (C.A.) found with shorter focal length achromats just isn't noticable unless one looks for it and probably 99% of the time the view is C.A. free.

I swapped from a 150mm newtonian and don't regret the purchase. £500 well spent and the sale of the 150p and a couple of other pieces of unused gear helped pay for the telescope. It looks great too but that's very subjective. 😉

If you wish to dip your toe into the world of higher end refractors then it's not a bad starting point at a not too ruinous price.

Bear mind that this is all just opinion. I'm not a massively experienced astronomer or an optics guru. Though I've read and received positive feedback about this instrument, there are those who have owned one and didn't like them.

[Alan White]

On 28/02/2021 at 15:13, mikeDnight said:

I know! I know!!

An empty bank account! 😢

Never a truer word spoken......

And @ScouseSpaceCadet, nice review and well thought through.
The move from a 150 Newtonian to a nice 4" refractor as you say is similar, no difraction spikes is the winner for me.
This scope does sound very good for the money, those Altair and other scopes do have a nice quality of build.

I do wonder what the f11 ED100 is like from them?



 

[ScouseSpaceCadet]

4 hours ago, Alan White said:

Never a truer word spoken......

And @ScouseSpaceCadet, nice review and well thought through.
The move from a 150 Newtonian to a nice 4" refractor as you say is similar, no difraction spikes is the winner for me.
This scope does sound very good for the money, those Altair and other scopes do have a nice quality of build.

I do wonder what the f11 ED100 is like from them?



 

This chap seems to like his. I imagine with the same ED glass as the f7,  the longer scope should be even better corrected and at £674 a decent deal if you can mount a light artillery piece.  😉 Although I like the f7 it's a nice Jack of all trades focal ratio.

Edited August 2, 2021 by ScouseSpaceCadet

[Helical]

Just ordered the f7 , really looking forward to my first frac!! 

[russ]

That is a great looking scope for £495. Not much more than i paid for a used ED100. What a bargain.

I love my 4" ED Frac. So much less hassle than the SCT i have. And massively easier to get on with compared to the 250P I had last year. That thing on the HEQ5 was a nightmare. Couldn't get to the eyepiece for half the stuff.  

[DeanCJ]

Great review  @ScouseSpaceCadet . Having read your review, I have bought one. To be honest I have also read many reviews such as Tecnosky, TS, Astro-tech etc. 
Just like @ScouseSpaceCadet our only refractor is a Skywatcher Startravel, albeit a 102 as opposed to a 120, so this is our only comparison. 
Our first light was a very quick grab and go between clouds and showers. I 100% agree with @ScouseSpaceCadet review, and I honestly think I can’t add very much more to it, although I can say that it cools down very quickly, within 15 minutes we were looking at Jupiter and Saturn with our highest power eyepiece, a Vixen 5mm lv and the views were, to be honest, far better than expected, fantastic to be honest.
The only false colour I could see was on the lunar limb when I used our Tak prism diagonal, then, with a Skywatcher 1.25 dialectric diagonal it totally disappeared, both my wife and I searched for it and agreed there was none. 
Because of the weather it really was a bit of a mad rush to gauge performance on a variety of targets, everything was simply fantastic, I don’t know what else to say. 
A quick star test on Altair (simply because we used it for the goto alignment) proved perfect concentric rings both inside and outside of focus. 
The biggest surprise I have to say was the Ring nebula. We have observed it many times from the same location, same time of year etc, and compared to our Skywatcher 127 Mak  using approximately the same magnification, approx 70x, the view was amazing. Neither of us had to use averted vision, it was just, there to be seen. I assume this is what people say with regards to central obstructions and contrast, as the Mak has the aperture advantage even at a true 119/120 mm. 
We have never looked through a fpl 53 apo but if fpl 51 is this good, they must be really fantastic.
Given the recent Syntra price increases, I wouldn’t be surprised if more people don’t look more closely at these telescopes in their various guises and apertures. 
One last big thank you to @ScouseSpaceCadet for your review, and everyone who takes the time to review their equipment, no matter how big or small, as it it allows newcomers like us to make the best informed decisions we can.

 

[Mark at Beaufort]

6 minutes ago, DeanCJ said:

Great review  @ScouseSpaceCadet . Having read your review, I have bought one. To be honest I have also read many reviews such as Tecnosky, TS, Astro-tech etc. 
Just like @ScouseSpaceCadet our only refractor is a Skywatcher Startravel, albeit a 102 as opposed to a 120, so this is our only comparison. 
Our first light was a very quick grab and go between clouds and showers. I 100% agree with @ScouseSpaceCadet review, and I honestly think I can’t add very much more to it, although I can say that it cools down very quickly, within 15 minutes we were looking at Jupiter and Saturn with our highest power eyepiece, a Vixen 5mm lv and the views were, to be honest, far better than expected, fantastic to be honest.
The only false colour I could see was on the lunar limb when I used our Tak prism diagonal, then, with a Skywatcher 1.25 dialectric diagonal it totally disappeared, both my wife and I searched for it and agreed there was none. 
Because of the weather it really was a bit of a mad rush to gauge performance on a variety of targets, everything was simply fantastic, I don’t know what else to say. 
A quick star test on Altair (simply because we used it for the goto alignment) proved perfect concentric rings both inside and outside of focus. 
The biggest surprise I have to say was the Ring nebula. We have observed it many times from the same location, same time of year etc, and compared to our Skywatcher 127 Mak  using approximately the same magnification, approx 70x, the view was amazing. Neither of us had to use averted vision, it was just, there to be seen. I assume this is what people say with regards to central obstructions and contrast, as the Mak has the aperture advantage even at a true 119/120 mm. 
We have never looked through a fpl 53 apo but if fpl 51 is this good, they must be really fantastic.
Given the recent Syntra price increases, I wouldn’t be surprised if more people don’t look more closely at these telescopes in their various guises and apertures. 
One last big thank you to @ScouseSpaceCadet for your review, and everyone who takes the time to review their equipment, no matter how big or small, as it it allows newcomers like us to make the best informed decisions we can.

 

That is a great review. I was interested in the comparison between the Tak prism diagonal and your Skywatcher dielectric. I need to get a new diagonal so you comments make me have a rethink

[DeanCJ]

Hi Mark,

Trying  the Tak prism was a bit of an experiment, and to be honest, probably not suited to an f7 focal ratio. From what I have read, prism diagonals are better suited to longer focal ratio telescopes, and to be honest, we bought the Tak prism to use with our f10 8” sct . In this telescope it is, especially when observing Jupiter and Saturn, definitely better than the Skywatcher dielectric diagonal, not by a lot, and the differences are subtle, but for example Jupiter’s cloud bands show a little more colour and quite often it will show more, north and south of the equator. I never really understood what light scatter is but in the Skywatcher diagonal it presents itself as a very, very faint type of glow around very bright objects (if that makes sense) but with the Tak there is none.
For what the Tak prism diagonal cost we think it is very good.

Check this article out it is very interesting  https://www.cloudynights.com/articles/cat/articles/mirror-vs-dielectric-vs-prism-diagonal-comparison-r2877

[ScouseSpaceCadet]

On 22/08/2021 at 19:57, DeanCJ said:

Great review  @ScouseSpaceCadet . Having read your review, I have bought one. To be honest I have also read many reviews such as Tecnosky, TS, Astro-tech etc. 
Just like @ScouseSpaceCadet our only refractor is a Skywatcher Startravel, albeit a 102 as opposed to a 120, so this is our only comparison. 
Our first light was a very quick grab and go between clouds and showers. I 100% agree with @ScouseSpaceCadet review, and I honestly think I can’t add very much more to it, although I can say that it cools down very quickly, within 15 minutes we were looking at Jupiter and Saturn with our highest power eyepiece, a Vixen 5mm lv and the views were, to be honest, far better than expected, fantastic to be honest.
The only false colour I could see was on the lunar limb when I used our Tak prism diagonal, then, with a Skywatcher 1.25 dialectric diagonal it totally disappeared, both my wife and I searched for it and agreed there was none. 
Because of the weather it really was a bit of a mad rush to gauge performance on a variety of targets, everything was simply fantastic, I don’t know what else to say. 
A quick star test on Altair (simply because we used it for the goto alignment) proved perfect concentric rings both inside and outside of focus. 
The biggest surprise I have to say was the Ring nebula. We have observed it many times from the same location, same time of year etc, and compared to our Skywatcher 127 Mak  using approximately the same magnification, approx 70x, the view was amazing. Neither of us had to use averted vision, it was just, there to be seen. I assume this is what people say with regards to central obstructions and contrast, as the Mak has the aperture advantage even at a true 119/120 mm. 
We have never looked through a fpl 53 apo but if fpl 51 is this good, they must be really fantastic.
Given the recent Syntra price increases, I wouldn’t be surprised if more people don’t look more closely at these telescopes in their various guises and apertures. 
One last big thank you to @ScouseSpaceCadet for your review, and everyone who takes the time to review their equipment, no matter how big or small, as it it allows newcomers like us to make the best informed decisions we can.

 

Thanks for taking the time to add your experiences. Mounting mine on a Celestron AVX has improved observing immensely.  No hint of focus vibration is a welcome novelty. 😀

I feel relieved I bought the Altair diagonal after reading your thoughts on the Tak prism. I did hover over that for a while..

£500 for a nicely engineered telescope with mildly exotic glass was for us two at least, a good buy. May they serve us well for years to come. 👍

Edited August 24, 2021 by ScouseSpaceCadet
Added pic

[John]

Interesting reports from both

I use a Baader T2 Zeiss prism with my F/9 100mm Tak and it's excellent but I've read that they don't suit scopes faster than around F/7 so well. Curiosity may make me try it with my F/6.5 Vixen ED 102 at some point "just to see" though I reckon

 

 

[JeremyS]

The Tak prism works well in all my Tak scopes, but they start at f/7.5 and up

[ScouseSpaceCadet]

35 minutes ago, JeremyS said:

The Tak prism works well in all my Tak scopes, but they start at f/7.5 and up

That extra .5 might make all the difference. I'd read f7 was at the very lower limit of excellent performance which put me off. A shame because that's the only Takahashi item I can afford! Unless they make biro pens too? 😉

Dean's comments regarding the Skywatcher dielectric diagonal being a touch mushy in his SCT are interesting. I have one, so I'll have to road test it vs the Altair diagonal at some point.