Horsehead HaRgb

[Allinthehead]

Hi, hope everyone's keeping well. I got lucky on Thursday and Friday night with some of the best conditions for imaging I've seen in months and with no plan in place I decided to go for the Horsehead. Whenever I image something I try to learn a little about the target and to my surprise It's not that clear who discovered this nebula. It is believed Herschel may have been the first to observe it in 1811 but his descriptions are vague. Edward Charles Pickering had photographic plates of the area which were cataloged in 1888 by Williamina Fleming who had previously been his maid and was then hired to analyse stellar spectra. It wasn't until 1913 that Barnard observed and photographed the nebula.

Taken with my Takahashi Epsilon 160 and Asi2600mc

8hrs in 180 second subs rgb with Ha added from my sold WO Star71 and Asi1600mm. Here the Ha was converted to rgb, the green and blue channels deleted and black inserted, then pasted over rgb with blend mode changed to screen. Method described in detail here although I used screen instead of lighten. http://bf-astro.com/tutorial/addHa.htm

Stacked in APP and processed in APP, PI and PS

Regards,

Richard.

 

[tooth_dr]

18 minutes ago, Allinthehead said:

Hi, hope everyone's keeping well. I got lucky on Thursday and Friday night with some of the best conditions for imaging I've seen in months and with no plan in place I decided to go for the Horsehead. Whenever I image something I try to learn a little about the target and to my surprise It's not that clear who discovered this nebula. It is believed Herschel may have been the first to observe it in 1811 but his descriptions are vague. Edward Charles Pickering had photographic plates of the area which were cataloged in 1888 by Williamina Fleming who had previously been his maid and was then hired to analyse stellar spectra. It wasn't until 1913 that Barnard observed and photographed the nebula.

Taken with my Takahashi Epsilon 160 and Asi2600mc

8hrs in 180 second subs rgb with Ha added from my sold WO Star71 and Asi1600mm. Here the Ha was converted to rgb, the green and blue channels deleted and black inserted, then pasted over rgb with blend mode changed to screen. Method described in detail here although I used screen instead of lighten. http://bf-astro.com/tutorial/addHa.htm

Stacked in APP and processed in APP, PI and PS

Regards,

Richard.

 

I honestly don’t think Ive seen more detail or such resolution in an image of this region.  It’s phenomenal.   NGC2023 - wow. You could crop any single target from this image and present it as an image in its own right. Colouration in the HH- phenomenal Richard.  Undoubtedly an image of the highest quality, from the various international forums I’m on, this is one of the best I’ve seen.

 

Edited January 10, 2021 by tooth_dr

[Laurin Dave]

Fabulous image Richard, and I shall have a look at the link

thanks

Dave

[Allinthehead]

46 minutes ago, tooth_dr said:

I honestly don’t think Ive seen more detail or such resolution in an image of this region.  It’s phenomenal.   NGC2023 - wow. You could crop any single target from this image and present it as an image in its own right. Colouration in the HH- phenomenal Richard.  Undoubtedly an image of the highest quality, from the various international forums I’m on, this is one of the best I’ve seen.

 

Thanks Adam, I think the ability to zoom in and see detail comes from the camera. The small pixels have deep wells and allow for cropping with acceptable resolution. 

This was my last effort at this region with a smaller scope and about 10 million less pixels.

Edited January 10, 2021 by Allinthehead

[Kinch]

A fantastic image that invites one in to browse - well done.

[Padraic M]

Superb result Richard - very impressive. So much to see in there, that you usually can't see in this region. And, an interesting combination process that I must try. 

[Allinthehead]

32 minutes ago, Laurin Dave said:

Fabulous image Richard, and I shall have a look at the link

thanks

Dave

Thanks Dave, It's a great method for adding in the ha. If you find it adds nothing to your image then what I would do is go to adjustments/Levels and raise the white point which can sometimes be too much so then I would go to adjustments/contrast and increase to taste. All of the above is obviously done on the ha layer.

[tooth_dr]

7 minutes ago, Allinthehead said:

Thanks Adam, I think the ability to zoom in and see detail comes from the camera. The small pixels have deep wells and allow for cropping with acceptable resolution. 

This was my last effort at this region with a smaller scope and about 10 million less pixels.

Then there is still hope for me when the 2600MC arrives

[Allinthehead]

7 minutes ago, Kinch said:

A fantastic image that invites one in to browse - well done.

Thanks Brendan, I've spent about 2 days glued to the screen browsing and tweaking. I could see the HH when I closed my eyes last night😃

7 minutes ago, Padraic M said:

Superb result Richard - very impressive. So much to see in there, that you usually can't see in this region. And, an interesting combination process that I must try. 

Thanks Padraic. Well worth trying that combination, I've used it for a few years now and gives a pleasing result, of course the beauty of a layers based program allows you to adjust the opacity to taste, or you can just select the areas you want to present ha, for example I always find adding ha to the flame area ruins the colour turning it orange. You loose the subtle changes in colour that the rgb data provides, if you look at the image you can even make out some blue which again is usually overpowered in most hargb combinations.

[Allinthehead]

9 minutes ago, tooth_dr said:

Then there is still hope for me when the 2600MC arrives

Exciting, have you an eta?

[mackiedlm]

That is really spectacular and beautiful image. I don't think I have ever seen so much detail in the clouds below the HH. Wonderful image.

[Allinthehead]

When comparing this new image to my previous version posted above I was struck by the improvement in resolution. I recently downloaded a plugin called Topaz denoise which I used here and while it's incredible at reducing noise I think it could potentially be corrupting the data. I just used it on an image of B150 and it seemed to actually alter some details in the Nebula rather than just supress the noise or sharpen details. I'll throw up an example tomorrow when I get the chance. 

[tooth_dr]

1 hour ago, Allinthehead said:

Exciting, have you an eta?

14th possibly. 

[AstroRuz]

3 hours ago, Allinthehead said:

Hi, hope everyone's keeping well. I got lucky on Thursday and Friday night with some of the best conditions for imaging I've seen in months and with no plan in place I decided to go for the Horsehead. Whenever I image something I try to learn a little about the target and to my surprise It's not that clear who discovered this nebula. It is believed Herschel may have been the first to observe it in 1811 but his descriptions are vague. Edward Charles Pickering had photographic plates of the area which were cataloged in 1888 by Williamina Fleming who had previously been his maid and was then hired to analyse stellar spectra. It wasn't until 1913 that Barnard observed and photographed the nebula.

Taken with my Takahashi Epsilon 160 and Asi2600mc

8hrs in 180 second subs rgb with Ha added from my sold WO Star71 and Asi1600mm. Here the Ha was converted to rgb, the green and blue channels deleted and black inserted, then pasted over rgb with blend mode changed to screen. Method described in detail here although I used screen instead of lighten. http://bf-astro.com/tutorial/addHa.htm

Stacked in APP and processed in APP, PI and PS

Regards,

Richard.

 

This is absolutely amazing. Breathtaking. Any information on sky quality, filters and editing programs please? Absolutely strive for something like this 

[AstroRuz]

I forgot to hit the notify of reply button lol

[Xiga]

I haven't been on the scene much lately, but when i saw this on my phone i knew i just had to go and boot up the computer, so i could see this one properly. 

Wow! 

Truly amazing work Richard, even by your standards. I could honestly look at this all day long and never get bored. Absolutely stunning. Good use of Screen instead of Lighten btw. Screen does add a lot of noise, but it also boosts signal and detail significantly too, so evidently with your combo of scope and camera you have more than enough signal to negate the extra noise that Screen brings, so good call! 

ps - Was it specifically Topaz Denoise AI that you used? Topaz have one called just Topaz Denoise, as well as the AI one (which uses machine learning, similar to Starnet). Assuming it is the AI one, i think you are correct that it does indeed alter the data. Apparently the AI version has caused a bit of a ruckus in the Planetary scene of late. I don't know the specifics, but i'm guessing it is adding details (e.g in Jovian cloud bands) that aren't actually there maybe? I myself have recently added the AI version to my own workflow, but only for NB data and only in the areas of very low signal. I find that it works best here, as NB data is generally very noisy, and the AI version does an amazing job of removing the noise, compared to general NR routines which just smear the data. I'm not so sure of it's use in RGB imaging, although i haven't really tried it. In your case, with a large aperture scope and a very sensitive camera, you might need to be very judicious as to where to apply it. If you do put up a comparison, i'd be very interested to see the effect. 

[Spongey]

Truly breathtaking.

That E160 is proving to be a keeper!

[Stuf1978]

Absolutely stunning image, great work 👍

[MylesGibson]

Absolutely stunning image! I think this is probably the most detailed picture of this region of sky I have seen so far! Amazing!

[Kinch]

9 hours ago, Allinthehead said:

I recently downloaded a plugin called Topaz denoise which I used here and while it's incredible at reducing noise I think it could potentially be corrupting the data.

This has been talked about elsewhere. To the best of my knowledge, when it removes noise it replaces the data with what it "perceives" to be the correct missing colour. This is why it has "AI" in the name.

There is little doubt in my mind that it makes astro images look very detailed but whether or not this detail is real or not is up for discussion. If we don't know it is real do we still use it? I think it is personal choice. I downloaded the software and tried it a couple of times - not on anything subsequently put on line......I was just trying it out for myself. I did not buy it in the end.

There will be arguments for & against it but for me - I don't want to use it. I have no objection to other people using it but what I would like to see though - is the fact that it is in use mentioned alongside all other data for the image. That way we know what to expect and judge the images accordingly. Some will love the images because of its use, others may detest them......I personally will look at each one on its own merit......just like the colour in NB images.....some I like....some I hate.

 

Brendan.

[Allinthehead]

8 hours ago, Xiga said:

Was it specifically Topaz Denoise AI that you used? Topaz have one called just Topaz Denoise, as well as the AI one (which uses machine learning, similar to Starnet). Assuming it is the AI one, i think you are correct that it does indeed alter the data. Apparently the AI version has caused a bit of a ruckus in the Planetary scene of late. I don't know the specifics, but i'm guessing it is adding details (e.g in Jovian cloud bands) that aren't actually there maybe? I myself have recently added the AI version to my own workflow, but only for NB data and only in the areas of very low signal. I find that it works best here, as NB data is generally very noisy, and the AI version does an amazing job of removing the noise, compared to general NR routines which just smear the data. I'm not so sure of it's use in RGB imaging, although i haven't really tried it. In your case, with a large aperture scope and a very sensitive camera, you might need to be very judicious as to where to apply it. If you do put up a comparison, i'd be very interested to see the effect.

Yes, that's the one. Once I'm finished my work for the day I'll show you what I mean. With the image above it doesn't seem to have added anything in. More like a combination of using a high pass filter, local contrast enhancement and noise reduction in one.

[Space Oddities]

Stunning image, through my beginner's eyes it's simply perfect!   Great work!

I'm wondering, what is this little thing near the right edge of the frame? Looks like a very tiny cigar galaxy!

[Allinthehead]

16 minutes ago, Kinch said:

This has been talked about elsewhere. To the best of my knowledge, when it removes noise it replaces the data with what it "perceives" to be the correct missing colour. This is why it has "AI" in the name.

There is little doubt in my mind that it makes astro images look very detailed but whether or not this detail is real or not is up for discussion. If we don't know it is real do we still use it? I think it is personal choice. I downloaded the software and tried it a couple of times - not on anything subsequently put on line......I was just trying it out for myself. I did not buy it in the end.

There will be arguments for & against it but for me - I don't want to use it. I have no objection to other people using it but what I would like to see though - is the fact that it is in use mentioned alongside all other data for the image. That way we know what to expect and judge the images accordingly. Some will love the images because of its use, others may detest them......I personally will look at each one on its own merit......just like the colour in NB images.....some I like....some I hate.

 

Brendan.

Thanks Brendan, could you point me to the discussions you mention? 

[Stardust]

just stunning

 

[Allinthehead]

This is the data that APP spat out when stacked. I'll throw up what it did to B150 later.