New observatory plans

[MartinB]

I've despaired of ever having an observatory. Despite quite a large garden we are surrounded by quite tall trees and shrubs. The prime spots for an observatory are strictly off limits. After endlessly bemoaning that fact, assisted by the fact that I am ruining the lawn by walking on it to get to my "astro shed" when frosty,Jackie has come up with a solution which is brilliant.

We have a brick shed which is extended off the back of our garage. The roof is a few feet lower than the garage roof because of the sloping ground. The plan is to take off the existing roof, create a low ceiling for the shed/floor for the obsy and build up the walls by a few feet then put a pulsar dome on top (not a full dome with walls, just the dome). Thinking of either the 2.7m dome or possibly a 2.2m one that is apparently going into production soon. I want it to be motorised and I gather this isn't possible with the 2.1. This will give me a 3x3.3m (external dimensions) 1st floor obsy. The pier will be mounted into a concrete column coming up from the floor of the shed below.

Our wonderful neighbours are excited by the project and are going to chop back a tree to improve my views to the NE. The raised position will give an unobstructed views to the S with the only major block being to the NW. The extra height will mean I'm clear of the surrounding bushes which should help seeing.

The warm room will be in the house via a wireless network.

I would be grateful for any advice from observatory owners. In particular, I would like the pier to be isolated from vibrations as far as possible so wonder how best to achieve that.

I'm very excited now. I will be speaking to pulsar tomorrow and hopefully will have something in place later this year. I will post some photos of the work.

[MikeP]

You lucky boy. Sounds like a whole lot of work but well worth it I'm sure.

What tremendous neighbours.

Good luck with the project, it should make for an entertaining year's reading.

Mike

[bazza]

Martin,

You have every right to be excited as an Obs will open a whole new world for you.

Without being patronising, I naturally assumed, because you are such an accomplished imager, that you already had an Obs.

I have a Pulsar (2.1 with walls) - all my dealings with Gary Walker at Pulsar have been first rate, he is a man of his word and you will not go wrong with the Pulsar dome.

My only caveat would be - get the biggest one you can!

I will watch the photos with interest.

Barry.

[Dave]

Fantastic project. I will look forward to seeing your progress.

[centroid]

Well!!!! in the words of Richard Wilson (one foot in the grave) "I don't bl***y believe it" :hello1:

What a 'turn up for the book', your dreams have come true, or at least are about to

Sounds like a very logical solution Martin, and I'll follow your progess with great interest.

If I can help in any way, it would be a pleasure.

Dave

[CELESCOPE]

Not what he told me lads , he has been sneaking out in the dark hours running up and down on the lawn churning it all up , no wonder Jackie gave in hehehehheehhe , !!! get a darn Dome she said ,!!!

LOL but great news Martin , and no probs with Pulsar as you wont have the base like me to worry about,should be plain sailing, oh by the way , they did ask if i wanted it motorised at the time ,so my guess is you can have it done , but i would go for the larger one anyway.

Look foward to the coming months to see its progress.

Rog

Errrr i was only kidding

[RobH]

Brilliant!

Very happy for you. It's the best bit of kit you can own.

Go for the biggest dome you can. Having just put my new 6 ich frac in the 10ft square obs I built for the 14" SCT, it is only just big enough and I have to perform some interesting contortions at times .

Re pier. As big a block of concrete as you can feasibly make, preferably sunk into the ground as far as possible. Put your method for levelling the mount at the top of the pier, not at the base. There will be a long lever arm and if you adjust at the bottom of the pier, much more leverage on the rods, and much more chance of oscillation.

Ask away....I suspect most of us learned a lot the hard way when we built or obs's!

Cheers

Rob

[Beyond_Vision]

Thats great news Martin it will be great to throw open the roof and be up and running in minutes. It will hopefully let you take advantage of smaller gaps in the carp weather you have been having.

Regards

Kevin

[lunator]

Martin

Great News

I have an 8x8' obs and it's only just big enough..

It is amazing how quickly the place clutters up.

Cheers

Ian

[George]

Bout time Martin

About those trees......I have a friend called chainsaw :laughing2:

[ribuck]

I'm certainly Jealous, wish i could afford a motorized dome...............oh how i wish.......

[roundycat]

excellent news! I would second Rob's comment about the pier. Make the actual foundation big (definitely hire a cement mixer) and put all the adjustments at the top. The steel or aluminium part of the pier needs to be stiff, not massive, so diameter is more important than wall thickness. If you are going to put half a ton of concrete on the base and a pier on top of that you certainly need to make the base deep for stability. I also hammered a 4" metpost into each corner of the hole, all pointing outwards slightly, so as to add some extra depth. I don't know whether theory supports this shennanigan but it felt right.

I didn't put my pier top on extended bolts as some do, it bolts directly to the top of the pier and is shimmed to get it level.

Dennis

[MartinB]

Thanks everyone for those helpful comments and ideas. I will make sure the foundation for the pier is substantial.!

Are there any adavantages to metal piers over concrete?

[centroid]

Are there any adavantages to metal piers over concrete?

From an operational aspect, probably not, but concrete piers are much easier from a DiY point of view, and cheaper.

A concrete pier is very much a permanent feature, in that unlike a metal pier, you can't unbolt it and take it with you, should you move house.

Mind you some people have concreted a metal tube into the ground, which is also becomes pretty much a permanent feature.

When I had my metal pier custom made, I had a heavy duty metal base plate welded on, and the pier is bolted to a concrete cube, cast in the gound. The fixing bolts were placed when the concrete cube as cast, and held in palce with a template, until the concrete had set.

Having a removable pier, certainly proved useful, as when I changed from a German EQ mount, to a Fork Mount and wedge, the pier needed shortening by some 18". So, it was an easy job to unbolt it, and take it back to the guy who made it, who then removed an 18" section of the 8" dia steel tube, and re-attached the base plate.

It was then just a matter of bolting the shortened pier, back to the concrete base.

HTH.

Dave

[michaelmorris]

Martin

Once you have an observatory the hobby will change completely. It is no longer a bind to set up so you'll end up doing a lot more observing.

I have two comments. If your going for a non-motoriseable (is that a word?) dome which you operate from another room go for a dome with the widest opening you can otherwise you're might spend an awful lot of your time going from the warm room to dome to move it!

On the subject of wireless networking, why not go for a homeplug-based (http://www.homeplugs.co.uk/ or http://www.devolo.co.uk) system instead. It's a lot less hassle, it's more reliable and higher speed.

[MartinB]

Thanks for that info Dave.

Michael, last Friday night I had what looked like a brief break in the cloud. there seemed no point attempting to set up so I got out the dob. Condiitions stayed perfect, the best night for months. If I'd had an observatory I would have been up and running. On Saturday it was clear at dusk so I set up, had the usual gremlins so took me 90mins before getting started, only for the cloud to roll in shortly after. I think I would double my imaging time with an observatory.

Thanks for the advice on the homeplug system, I will definitely explore that.

[steppenwolf]

Great news, Martin. I have the Pulsar 2.1 dome with walls and love it. There is no commercial motor drive kit for this size although it is not exactly a major chore to whip out every 10 - 15 minutes to nudge it round. I have designed my own motor drive system but not had time to implement it yet.

If I had to find a negative for my dome, it would have to be the aperture - a wider aperture would have made a big difference to how often the dome needs to be rotated and it would make allowing for the imaging 'scope and guide' scope width easier at the start of an imaging session - that said I have never not been able to image any object even using the 10" plus guider.

There are some details on my website about the method I used to isolate the pier concrete that may be of interest to you - it works very well for me! Click here for the observatory build page

[MartinB]

Thanks Steve, sounds like a good idea to isolate the pier foundation from the rest of the floor. Not quite so critical for me since the observatory floor will be on a higher level but would still be nice to avoid vibration when coming and going.

[Bigwings]

An Observatory is on the cards for this summer. I have been told that we are NOT having a shed in the garden or some big white T-T.

The plan is to construct brieze block wall 10x8 maybeeeee a bit bigger, This will be nearly up to the hedge line. The front will be screened by two stepped raised flower beds made from "concrete stones".

The roof is to be a shallow pent roof sliding sideways and maybee housing some growbags.

Anyone any experience of an Ob in a flowerbed?

[Viking]

Martin,

Cloudynights has a good observatory section. Worth a look.

John

[dark knight]

A word of caution. Before doing any work ensure planning permission and Building Regulations requirements are checked out. This could be seen by the Local Authority as an extension requiring the above legislation to be followed. Check the planning portal here as changes have been made as to what is a permitted developmenthttp://www.planningportal.gov.uk/england/genpub/en/I'd hate for you to do loads of work and expenditure just for some busybody from the Local Authority to come along and ruin your day.

[Jeff RV]

Good luck with your dome project Martin, you crafty thing!!

Here's a couple of links to other dome makers should you be interested.

http://www.astronomydome.com/ and http://www.exploradome.us/Explora-Dome_Ring.html

Although the later is not available in the UK at the mo only in other parts of Europe.

Just for some idea's.

Jeff.

[centroid]

As a retired Consultant EMC engineer, I would say that Home Plug system is a variant on the once very contentious Power Line Transmission system (PLT), that was trialed by power company and a telcomms equipment manufacturer consortium, back in the late 90's and early 2000's.

The idea behind the system, was to convey broadband, via the AC mains distribution system, to the home. This was to have been done over the domestic supply mains network, from the local sub station, to the home, not over the 'grid'.

Fine in principle, but had very limited bandwidth capability, as the mains cabling is designed to carry a 50Hz electricity supply, and as such very lossy at broadband frequencies.

The major concern of people like the broadcasters, CAA, MOD etc etc, was the level of radio frequency interference it radiated off of the cables. Due entirely to high speed broadband signal being propagated along a completely unsuitable medium. Hence the system never got off the ground, thank goodness.

IMO, the Home Plug system, is a localised (within the house) version of PLT, albeit not broadband as such.

If you intend to run this down the garden via mains cabling, you may unwittingly cause interference to your neighbours broadcast radio reception. Its is only a maybe, but be aware.

The best solution, bar none, is to run a Cat5e network cable out to the obsy, and connect the PCs via a proper ethernet newtork. There are number of software packages, that will provide you with remote PC operation, such as PC Anywhere, and Radmin etc.

My study is connected to my obsy by such a link, which also gives me broadband internet access in the obsy.

Dave

[RobH]

I've tried the homeplug system, and while it works, some odd things happen.

There is one mains supply to the garage, which the obs and control room mains run off.

If I plug the homeplug unit into a socket in the control room, it doesn't work. If I plug it into the second socket on the double plug that the obs etc power comes from, and then run an extension cable, it does work.

I've checked the wiring very thoroughly, and used a Martindale tester to double check continuity, correct polarity, and earth integrity. All are fine.......makes no sense but this is what happens!

I'm shortly going to do as Dave suggests and run a Cat 5e cable up to the house. You can't go wrong with a seperate hardwired circuit.

As regards the floor, definitely isolate the floor and the rest of the obs structure from the pier.

Cheers

Rob

[steppenwolf]

The best solution, bar none, is to run a Cat5e network cable out to the obsy, and connect the PCs via a proper ethernet newtork. There are number of software packages, that will provide you with remote PC operation, such as PC Anywhere, and Radmin etc.

My study is connected to my obsy by such a link, which also gives me broadband internet access in the obsy.

Absolutely with you on this, Dave - simple, no interference, high speed, full broadband for researching while out there, good control from remote PC..... yup, the way to go!