Fancy a 904 acre 21.91 SQM dark sky site!?

[Ships and Stars]

If everyone on SGL buys lottery tickets as a syndicate - for sale - 904.88 acres in the Cairngorms National Park off the A93 near Spittal of Glenshee, rising up to a 794m ridgeline. Offers over £695,000 - not bad actually!

21.91 SQM Bortle 2, virtually no artificial brightness.

https://media.onthemarket.com/properties/7918371/1209299483/document-1.pdf

I'll kindly offer to live there rent-free as the estate manager, just doing my part 🤣  I'll need a new 4x4 however to ferry scopes up the slope. A Defender, Land Cruiser or perhaps even a Unimog will suffice.

Alternatively, if someone has a house in London, quickly sell it at a knockdown price, buy the land and pocket half a million or so to renovate the cottage and buy a new scope or two.  

Ever the dreamer.... PS bring a snow shovel or three.

Edited November 25, 2019 by Ships and Stars

[Craney]

Don't forget nearby ski resort as well....

[Ships and Stars]

2 minutes ago, Craney said:

Don't forget nearby ski resort as well....

Definitely! A wonderful part of the world. Lots of Munros in that area too. I'd live there in a second.

Edited November 25, 2019 by Ships and Stars

[Craney]

Indeed.   It's a wild and wonderful place., but it takes a pioneering spirit and gritty resolve to make it work out for you.

[Ships and Stars]

17 minutes ago, Craney said:

Indeed.   It's a wild and wonderful place., but it takes a pioneering spirit and gritty resolve to make it work out for you.

I was joking a bit in my initial post, but living somewhere like this would suit me perfectly. I've done a fair bit of work on estates and don't mind frequent solitude for a few days or even weeks at a time. Worked in Alaska for a while as well. A harsh Scottish Highland January is comparable to early or mid-October in Alaska, winter is just getting started. A big state obviously, there's a fair bit of climatic variation. Even simply going from Anchorage to Fairbanks it can get a lot colder. I struggle living in towns,  cities are pretty much unfathomable to me these days, I go in and get out as soon as I can. 

Edited November 25, 2019 by Ships and Stars

[andrew s]

How many clear nights a year?

Regards Andrew 

[Gina]

I was up there many years ago in the winter.  Just got out in a blizzard before they closed the road!!  I escaped south!  😄   Beautiful scenery in decent weather.

[Ships and Stars]

26 minutes ago, andrew s said:

How many clear nights a year?

Regards Andrew 

Probably at least three or four. No seriously, we have a few decent nights in the area. I don't live a huge distance away from Glenshee, been there many times. Glenshee is on the south side of the Cairngorms, so depending on weather direction, it can be in a rain shadow or leeward side and have as many clear nights as you'd get most anywhere else in Britain (which is admittedly not many, as of late!). If weather comes from the south west or east/south east in winter, then that's a different story. It can quickly accumulate a half metre of snow or more up high. 

22 minutes ago, Gina said:

I was up there many years ago in the winter.  Just got out in a blizzard before they closed the road!!  I escaped south!  😄   Beautiful scenery in decent weather.

I love the winter there, we did several of the Munros near the ski centre in winter a few years back. This land is situated just south of the snow gate so you wouldn't get locked in. Still need a 4x4 and not a bad idea to carry emergency overnight gear if travelling around this area in winter. You might have 20cm of snow, but along roads like the Lecht it can easily drift to 1 or 1.5m in places for 50 or 100m stretches. Nothing is getting through that except a logging tractor, snowplough or someone on snowshoes./xc skies. I'll go for the tractor please! The road frontage along the property is about 340m od, not mega high, but plenty high enough to catch snow when it's raining in say Aberdeen. If you've ever noticed the 3m tall reflector posts situated along the roadside in places like this, that's so the plough can find the road in winter.

Edited November 25, 2019 by Ships and Stars

[Craney]

... and I forgot.....   GOOD for aurora......    

[jetstream]

1 hour ago, Ships and Stars said:

I struggle living in towns

I see we share a common thing- I moved from a town to a dark place on a lake 5 years ago, in NW Ontario. There are so many more opportunities to observe, if its clear wheel the dob out (cooled) and start observing within 10 min even with the 24".

Maybe there is a smaller parcel around there you can pick up?

BTW our coldest temp last year, no wind was -42c. My very best views are in a cold front after a snowstorm.

Edited November 25, 2019 by jetstream

[Ships and Stars]

15 minutes ago, jetstream said:

I see we share a common thing- I moved from a town to a dark place on a lake 5 years ago, in NW Ontario. There are so many more opportunities to observe, if its clear wheel the dob out (cooled) and start observing within 10 min even with the 24".

Maybe there is a smaller parcel around there you can pick up?

BTW our coldest temp last year, no wind was -42c. My very best views are in a cold front after a snowstorm.

Yes, same here, I just prefer living somewhere that would probably bore the pants off most people (except Ray Mears) after about two hours. 

I bet it's incredible there in NW Ontario, sounds like a canoe or kayak is a must have when not wheeling out the dob! Sounds like heaven. I made two very memorable trips up and down the mighty Alaska-Canadian Highway back in the early 1990s when long stretches were still gravel (or under extensive repair). On the way up from Seattle one year, somewhere around Haines Junction, my co-pilot accidentally missed a warning sign and drove our van off a unmarked vertical drop, apparently cut into the road by night repair crews.  I was sleeping in the back and was so tired from driving, my friend said I floated slowly upwards against the roof of the car under zero G and then landed with a thud when we touched down. I didn't even wake up 👍 I don't know how the van survived, but it was unharmed and still went in a straight line. 

Canada is just a HUGE country with some really sparsely populated areas, but you don't fully appreciate it until covering some vast distances by car. I've been across Saskatchewan, Alberta, BC and Yukon. Haven't been to Ontario or eastern Canada. I know someone from Labrador City of all places... Another friend years ago from Eyebrow, Saskatchewan (pop 119-ish) wittily remarked 'it's so flat there you can watch a dog run away for three weeks'. Still makes me laugh...

I'd love to buy a small parcel of land here, but my other half is not so inclined. I should look for a hunting cabin or similar to rent or at least have access to on short notice, but my old camper van has served me well for quick escapes. Much of rural Scotland is only owned by a relatively small number of people holding large estates. The website 'Who Owns Scotland' gives some idea. Still, there are parcels or small houses that come up with some frequency.

http://www.whoownsscotland.org.uk/geo/index.htm#zoom=7&lat=56.92913&lon=-4.51548&layers=B0TT

I've never been in -42C, hard to imagine, but was in -30 or -35C in Arctic Norway in Feb 2016 with some excellent clothing. Even with the right gear on, it just had this definite life-threatening feel to it, no matter what you were wearing, like you'd crossed some kind of invisible physiological boundary where people shouldn't really be unless, you were a reindeer herder or Inuit. Just a gentle breeze felt like razors nicking bare skin when I took my gloves off for a few seconds to take some photos.

I agree, I think my best night sky view eve was in Scotland was after some snow in January this year. It sharply dipped to -15C around midnight for a few hours, but rose back up to -2C by morning. That was not far from where this land is for sale actually. The view finally prompted me to seriously take up astronomy. 👍

 

 

[jetstream]

1 hour ago, Ships and Stars said:

from Eyebrow, Saskatchewan

lol! I was just very near there on a road trip- the vast expanse of the prairies is hard to comprehend unless seen. Nothing like a prairie wind... to frost your......😀  I used to work with a bunch of guys from Labrador City, came here when there were mine issues there, good guys the "newfies are"!

Yes -30c or worse starts to "bite" if you know what I mean and it shows up all kinds of flaws in the scopes- dobs by far work the best and having a couple of favorite EP's  in the same fl help when one frosts up. I can tell you this -ES eyepieces are very tough- I tested the seals going from -30c frosted up by running warm water over the whole EP and the 30ES 82 passed with flying colors. Zero problems and zero internal fogging.

Yes, try to find a chunk of property some where for a cabin, you will love it!

Gerry, from the land of ice and snow.

 

[Ships and Stars]

17 minutes ago, jetstream said:

lol! I was just very near there on a road trip- the vast expanse of the prairies is hard to comprehend unless seen. Nothing like a prairie wind... to frost your......😀  I used to work with a bunch of guys from Labrador City, came here when there were mine issues there, good guys the "newfies are"!

Yes -30c or worse starts to "bite" if you know what I mean and it shows up all kinds of flaws in the scopes- dobs by far work the best and having a couple of favorite EP's  in the same fl help when one frosts up. I can tell you this -ES eyepieces are very tough- I tested the seals going from -30c frosted up by running warm water over the whole EP and the 30ES 82 passed with flying colors. Zero problems and zero internal fogging.

Yes, try to find a chunk of property some where for a cabin, you will love it!

Gerry, from the land of ice and snow.

 

Small world apparently! I reckon at some point in our lives we've probably driven within 100 miles of one another, haha. Sounds like the ES eyepiece has passed the torture test, that's impressive! 

I will keep an eye out for my dream cabin/observatory here in Scotland. I briefly looked at Cape Verde a few months back thinking I could pick up some land cheaply on Santo Antao and have my own mini La Palma-type observatory with similar seeing conditions, but reality set in once again...

Cheers Gerry!

[Star101]

Its a great idea and not so far to travel too. Fun to dream about.

However, I'm sure there are a few sites in Spain/France etc, with many more clear night skies, that one can setup a remote Obsy, fly/drive back and forth from UK for a few years and still have change out of £700,000

[Ships and Stars]

5 minutes ago, Star101 said:

Its a great idea and not so far to travel too. Fun to dream about.

However, I'm sure there are a few sites in Spain/France etc, with many more clear night skies, that one can setup a remote Obsy, fly/drive back and forth from UK for a few years and still have change out of £700,000

I must admit given the weather here lately, that alternative sounds like a winner! 

[don4l]

I can get to Spain quicker, and when I get there I can understand what the locals are saying!  😉

 

 

It does look lovely though.

[Star101]

If the weather was clear skies 250 nights of the year it would be perfect in the Cairngorms National Park. 

Could you imagine imaging from 4pm until 7am during winter  WOW!!!

Edited November 25, 2019 by Star101

[Beulah]

3 hours ago, Ships and Stars said:

Yes, same here, I just prefer living somewhere that would probably bore the pants off most people (except Ray Mears) after about two hours. 

I bet it's incredible there in NW Ontario, sounds like a canoe or kayak is a must have when not wheeling out the dob! Sounds like heaven. I made two very memorable trips up and down the mighty Alaska-Canadian Highway back in the early 1990s when long stretches were still gravel (or under extensive repair). On the way up from Seattle one year, somewhere around Haines Junction, my co-pilot accidentally missed a warning sign and drove our van off a unmarked vertical drop, apparently cut into the road by night repair crews.  I was sleeping in the back and was so tired from driving, my friend said I floated slowly upwards against the roof of the car under zero G and then landed with a thud when we touched down. I didn't even wake up 👍 I don't know how the van survived, but it was unharmed and still went in a straight line. 

Canada is just a HUGE country with some really sparsely populated areas, but you don't fully appreciate it until covering some vast distances by car. I've been across Saskatchewan, Alberta, BC and Yukon. Haven't been to Ontario or eastern Canada. I know someone from Labrador City of all places... Another friend years ago from Eyebrow, Saskatchewan (pop 119-ish) wittily remarked 'it's so flat there you can watch a dog run away for three weeks'. Still makes me laugh...

I'd love to buy a small parcel of land here, but my other half is not so inclined. I should look for a hunting cabin or similar to rent or at least have access to on short notice, but my old camper van has served me well for quick escapes. Much of rural Scotland is only owned by a relatively small number of people holding large estates. The website 'Who Owns Scotland' gives some idea. Still, there are parcels or small houses that come up with some frequency.

http://www.whoownsscotland.org.uk/geo/index.htm#zoom=7&lat=56.92913&lon=-4.51548&layers=B0TT

I've never been in -42C, hard to imagine, but was in -30 or -35C in Arctic Norway in Feb 2016 with some excellent clothing. Even with the right gear on, it just had this definite life-threatening feel to it, no matter what you were wearing, like you'd crossed some kind of invisible physiological boundary where people shouldn't really be unless, you were a reindeer herder or Inuit. Just a gentle breeze felt like razors nicking bare skin when I took my gloves off for a few seconds to take some photos.

I agree, I think my best night sky view eve was in Scotland was after some snow in January this year. It sharply dipped to -15C around midnight for a few hours, but rose back up to -2C by morning. That was not far from where this land is for sale actually. The view finally prompted me to seriously take up astronomy. 👍

 

 

Sounds ideal. Wouldn't bore me in the slightest as it's something I'd like to achieve although I am nearly there. Access to work is imperative, though, so I live in a sort of 'Goldilocks Zone' where the remote wilderness is accessible just by stepping out of the garden and a short drive takes me to work...

Cananda is a place where you can really get away from it all; all the remote places in the UK always have some form of tourist industry...

Scotland sounds like the next best place. Hope you succeed in obtaining that cabin; or even how about buying a bit of land and building your own?

The guy below is my hero and I would love to achieve this:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIMXKin1fXXCeq2UJePJEog

 

 

 

[Ships and Stars]

36 minutes ago, Star101 said:

If the weather was clear skies 250 nights of the year it would be perfect in the Cairngorms National Park. 

Could you imagine imaging from 4pm until 7am during winter  WOW!!!

Now those sorts of clear nights here are memorable! Admittedly not a huge amount as I recall, but when we get them it's excellent, and typically very cold. 

[scarp15]

Charitable organisations such as The John Muir Trust and their ownership of some chunks of Scotland, such as notably in Knoydart and more recently on Skye are to be supported for their rewilding of the landscape ethos, would be good to see more of this kind of land management. Great that there is positive momentum in recent years to restore some areas of the Caledonian Pine Forest within the Cairngorms, that of course had once blanketed much of Scotland. The Cairngorms are a richly diverse, arctic influenced mountain landscape, it is hoped that National Park status continues to provide enough protection. Might be planning to make a trip over there via train and bike next year to complete a final Munroe in this part of the Highlands. I could live there at the drop of a hat, somewhere near Braemar would be great. Not sure that my wife would be so enthused, so unless I become a mountain hermit, now there's a thought.

[Paul M]

3 hours ago, Ships and Stars said:

Canada is just a HUGE country

I recently reach this conclusion myself. Some friends moved from Fleetwood (England) to Vancouver. 20 odd years later and now they are moving to Nova Scotia. I checked it out and they'll be nearer to their old home in Fleetwood than to the old home in Vancouver!

[Peter Drew]

By the time we've collectively saved up enough to buy the Cairngorms site, climate change will have converted it into a sub tropical Paradise.      😀

[Paul M]

It is my stated intention and has been for a long while, that should I ever win big on the lottery (trust me I'm trying!) I'd buy a chunk of land, preferable already wild and protect it from anything and everything. 

This site is a dream for me. So long as there is somewhere to live, a wood burning stove and a huge wood store I'd be in heaven in any weather. It already has grants in place for reforestation!   

Just need to be sure that I'd be able to build a sturdy observatory. Of course y'all would be welcome. Might even build some lodges. Just don't ask for your money back when it's clouded out  

I would be needing an estate keeper too. Not exactly gamekeeper cause there would be no blood sports. So the estate keeper will have their work cut out keeping those sorts out! 

[Ships and Stars]

14 hours ago, Beulah said:

Scotland sounds like the next best place. Hope you succeed in obtaining that cabin; or even how about buying a bit of land and building your own?

I'd definitely like to buy some land - I've been looking at planning which is of course quite strict in comparison to the wilds of Canada or Alaska. There are some cabin builders here who sell kits but they would only be classed as holiday homes and not permanent residences. The thing to buy in the Cairngorms would be a derelict cottage or roofless croft on the buildings at risk register etc, that could be converted into a permanent home, but I've heard they can be tiny money pits!

12 hours ago, Peter Drew said:

By the time we've collectively saved up enough to buy the Cairngorms site, climate change will have converted it into a sub tropical Paradise.      😀

I'll definitely have to sell some EPs to swing this one!

 

14 hours ago, scarp15 said:

Charitable organisations such as The John Muir Trust and their ownership of some chunks of Scotland, such as notably in Knoydart and more recently on Skye are to be supported for their rewilding of the landscape ethos, would be good to see more of this kind of land management. Great that there is positive momentum in recent years to restore some areas of the Caledonian Pine Forest within the Cairngorms, that of course had once blanketed much of Scotland. The Cairngorms are a richly diverse, arctic influenced mountain landscape, it is hoped that National Park status continues to provide enough protection. Might be planning to make a trip over there via train and bike next year to complete a final Munroe in this part of the Highlands. I could live there at the drop of a hat, somewhere near Braemar would be great. Not sure that my wife would be so enthused, so unless I become a mountain hermit, now there's a thought.

Very true Scarp - I was involved with some survey work on a large estate a few years back to reforest an area with native conifers and tree species in the Cairngorms. A 'riparian planting project' it was called. I think the Cairngorm plateau is the only area in Britain classed as sub-Arctic. There is a domesticated reindeer herd above Loch Morelich I believe (at least that's where the visitors' centre is at for the herd) and another semi-wild reindeer herd roaming the Cairngorms. 

12 hours ago, Paul M said:

It is my stated intention and has been for a long while, that should I ever win big on the lottery (trust me I'm trying!) I'd buy a chunk of land, preferable already wild and protect it from anything and everything. 

This site is a dream for me. So long as there is somewhere to live, a wood burning stove and a huge wood store I'd be in heaven in any weather. It already has grants in place for reforestation!   

Just need to be sure that I'd be able to build a sturdy observatory.

It's a beautiful part of the world there. Actually quite a good locations for trips into Perth or reaching the A9. The reforestation plan sounds interesting as well. Like you, an observatory is a must! I'd anchor it down well 👍

[JamesF]

For some reason this thread just put me in mind of this...

    He's got this dream about buying some land
    he's gonna give up the booze and the one night stands
    and then he'll settle down in this quiet little town
    and forget about everything

:D

James