Garden with partially blocked view - What can I expect?

[Deisler]

Hello everyone,

I am new to this hobby and forum but have found all discussion here very useful. I have always been wanting my own telescope, and after a few weeks's 'research' here, I decided to buy a Skywatcher 200P Dobsonian. I plan to use it myself but also like to encourage my 5 years old to use it too.  

I have two young kids and that means I cannot leave home during the night. But I do have a lot of free time at home after kids go to bed at 8pm 😀. So my plan is to set up my telescope in my back garden. However, before I hit the 'order' button on FLO, I thought, well, maybe I should estimate how much 'sky space' I can see from my garden. Then I realised I may have a big problem.

I live at the edge of a small town in Scotland (near Edinburgh). My backyard can be completely dark during the night, as my house blocks all street lights from the south. The problem is, the view from my backyard is also blocked by neighbour's houses and some trees towards the N/NE. The front garden does have a better view, but it is heavily polluted by street lights. I estimated the view from my backyard and drew a view map, as you can find below. Hope it helps demonstrate my concern....

Last few days I have been using SkySafari APP on my phone to check what I can expect to see, and found I probably will not be able to see moon or most planets unless they are right next to Zenith (which I guess rarely happens in Scotland in winter?)

I wonder if you guys can tell me if it is worth for me buying the telescope, considering I will be limited by the view from my backyard. If I can see some DSO and moon/planets, I'd be happy - I just want to have my expectation in check.

Cheers,

Deisler

 

[PeterCPC]

It's not that unusual to have blocked views in some directions. I can't view anything to the West and only South and East above about 20 degrees. However, because the Earth rotates it is possible to image DSOs and planets (not so much this year). Planets are not well placed at the moment anyway but they will not be at the Zenith. Use Stellarium or similar to see what you can view. You can change the time so that you can plan ahead.  You should be able to get some views if the weather allows but only you will be able to decide if it's enough. Good luck.

Peter

[John]

Hello and welcome to the forum !

That looks similar to my situation at home. If you pick your targets and plan your sessions (use Cartes du Ciel or Stellarium) and wait for targets to get well above the horizon and into the more stable areas of seeing and / or lower light pollution you can still have a lot of fun.

With the major planets so low currently I've found scopes on taller tripods (ie: refractors) easier to use because it's simply easier to point such scopes at low lying targets and refractors seem to cut through the poor seeing closer to the horizon better.

For most other targets my 12 inch dob has done a great job as usual, despite the compromises of my observing location.

I've always kept my scopes to a size which can be moved around fairly easily during a session to make the best of the views that I do have.

 

[Nigella Bryant]

You seem to have some easterly view so during the winter months the moon will be high at some point. Mar's next year will be higher in the autumn so you should catch that too. Orion rises in the east with a few bright nebula such as the orion nebula so that should be good too. There are lots to see and as the earth rotates and constalations move across the sky , you'll always see something. As has been said there's not many perfect back gardens so enjoy your new hobby. 

[geoflewis]

Hello Deisler,

Fisrtly, welcome to the forum.

Well done for considering what the viewing conditions might be from your rear garden. It looks to be fairly small, but have you also estimated what altitude objects would need to be to see them over the houses to the S/SW and trees to the NE. In particular are you able to locate and identify Polaris (the Pole Star) to the N as that will greatly help you set up your scope.

As others have said it is worth downloading a planetarium tool like Stellarium and configuring it for your location, as that will help you identify what is visible at any time for any night of the year.

It seems to me that you may have good views to the E/SE, so any targets that are rising during the night may be visible in that direction. Furthermore the Moon and the brighter planets, Venus, Jupiter, Saturn and sometimes Mars may well be bright enough for you to locate even from your light polluted front garden. Jupiter, Saturn and Mars are low down targets currently and well past their best this year, but their altitude will improve over the coming years and Mars will be up around 40 degrees next year, so don't give up on seeing those.

Good luck, Geof

[Raph-in-the-sky]

5 minutes ago, geoflewis said:

It looks to be fairly small, but have you also estimated what altitude objects would need to be to see them over the houses to the S/SW and trees to the NE. In particular are you able to locate and identify Polaris (the Pole Star) to the N as that will greatly help you set up your scope.

 

Actually, he's about to buy a Dob (I'm guessing manual but I could be wrong), in which case he doesn't need any set up appart from putting the scope on the rocker box and collimating.

[banjaxed]

Hi and welcome to SGL. Your viewing area is bigger than mine and it doesn’t stop me enjoying what I can see. My outlook is there are billions of objects in the night sky so enjoy what you can see. Good luck with whatever you decide on.

[GlenM]

I have a terrible view south. Anything under 30 degrees forget it. I still enjoy what I can see.

 

Glen.

 

[joe aguiar]

I live in white zone considered the worst, and planets are still easy since they are bright and light pollution doesnt effect them much. So dont worry if u have to view planets  and moon from your front yard. Just shield your eyes.

Depending how high those houses are bungalows (single stories) u can still have ok viewing above them . As norm the bottom of any views of 20 degrees is not recommend since your looking through to much air.

I guess just enjoy what your can and still have fun

[IanL]

For the bright planets and Moon you won't be that affected by street lights  provided you can position so you are not looking straight at or very close to one.  So viewing them from the front garden is a good option assuming they clear whatever is on the other side of the road. Be prepared to bend down a long way to view things at low altitudes. You can make a solid wooden base to raise the scope a foot or two higher if you have some basic woodworking tools, or a chunky second hand coffee table or similar can be pressed in to use.

For DSOs viewing higher and nearer the zenith gives the best views, though it can be rather tricky to aim a Dob straight up just because the mechanics mean that getting from one side of the zenith to the other often requires a 180 degree rotation of the base. With the tube pointing straight up you don't have a long lever to make the turn, so it can be an effort and rather jerky. Once you are down to 80 degrees or so from the zenith it's fairly easy. Don't let that put you off, it's still a million times better than a cheap/wobbly EQ or Alt-Az mount.

Unless you have a flat horizon all around, and most of us don't, you have to plan ahead and be prepared to wait for the right time of year to view a lot of things anyway.

[geoflewis]

1 hour ago, Raph-in-the-sky said:

Actually, he's about to buy a Dob (I'm guessing manual but I could be wrong), in which case he doesn't need any set up appart from putting the scope on the rocker box and collimating.

Good point 🤔

[Raph-in-the-sky]

17 minutes ago, IanL said:

 Be prepared to bend down a long way to view things at low altitudes. You can make a solid wooden base to raise the scope a foot or two higher if you have some basic woodworking tools, or a chunky second hand coffee table or similar can be pressed in to use.
 

I do it the other way around. I got an ironing chair for 15GBP which is adjustable in height. Works perfectly for those 1200 FL dobs.

[IanL]

15 minutes ago, Raph-in-the-sky said:

I do it the other way around. I got an ironing chair for 15GBP which is adjustable in height. Works perfectly for those 1200 FL dobs.

Only up to the age of 50 or so. Beyond that you'll get down there, but probably not back up!

[Deisler]

1 hour ago, geoflewis said:

Hello Deisler,

Fisrtly, welcome to the forum.

Well done for considering what the viewing conditions might be from your rear garden. It looks to be fairly small, but have you also estimated what altitude objects would need to be to see them over the houses to the S/SW and trees to the NE. In particular are you able to locate and identify Polaris (the Pole Star) to the N as that will greatly help you set up your scope.

As others have said it is worth downloading a planetarium tool like Stellarium and configuring it for your location, as that will help you identify what is visible at any time for any night of the year.

It seems to me that you may have good views to the E/SE, so any targets that are rising during the night may be visible in that direction. Furthermore the Moon and the brighter planets, Venus, Jupiter, Saturn and sometimes Mars may well be bright enough for you to locate even from your light polluted front garden. Jupiter, Saturn and Mars are low down targets currently and well past their best this year, but their altitude will improve over the coming years and Mars will be up around 40 degrees next year, so don't give up on seeing those.

Good luck, Geof

Hey, thank you for your reply.

The size of the garden is 10m x 10m but the problem is the trees/houses are pretty tall and close to my garden, therefore the blocked 'angle' of the view in my drawing is huge.

I have not tried to identify Polaris but I guess (I could be wrong) I should be able to, as I have at least 30 degree 'conical' view around Zenith, and much better than 30 degree in NW/SE directions. 

[Deisler]

Thank you so much guys for your replies - so informative and useful. I think I am now quite confident that at least I should be able to see something from my garden.

I am particularly encouraged to know that I can also try from my front garden. The view angle there is pretty good, at least 60 degree 'cornical' view from Zenith in all directions. 

 

A quick question - do you guys know if FLO and other suppliers usually do some offers/discounts during Christmas time in the past years? If so, I think I can survive for a few more weeks before I order 200P.

Regards

Deisler

[banjaxed]

You can usually pick up a used one for between £100- £200 so have a look on here or UKABS.

[banjaxed]

The 200P is a great scope and is very portable if you buy or make a platform trolley. I made mine and mounted a water butt stand on it and the whole set up can be up and running in a couple of minutes , always assuming you don’t have any steps.

[Deisler]

40 minutes ago, banjaxed said:

You can usually pick up a used one for between £100- £200 so have a look on here or UKABS.

I have checked on that website but at the moment there is no suitable ones for sale. I will keep an eye on it. Cheers.

[Nyctimene]

The E/NE horizon looks quite promising. During winter, the constellation Orion will rise in the evening hours in that direction. You can try to spot  and identify it's brighter stars (e.g. Beteigeuze, Rigel, or Alnitak in the belt) and get the declination values for these from SkySafari. This way  you'd get knowledge of the southernmost star declinations visible from your garden. If you, for example, can spot Rigel (-8°), then you can assume, that you can see all stars with a  higher declination during the course of a year; allowing exact planning. You can even plot the compass direction (= azimuth values in SkySafari) against the declination.

SkySafari (at least the Pro version) enables you to create your own horizon panorama (look at "Help - Sky and Horizons"), so you could have an image of your own back yard horizon. Never done this (and it looks a bit complicated), but might be interesting.

Stephan

[ScouseSpaceCadet]

If you can see the sky, then there's always something on view. As someone once said, "Space is big. Really big...".

With those street lights blocked in your dark garden, zenith views will be great and plenty passes over at different times of the year.

To reiterate the point about the planets and moon. Jupiter and Saturn moving across from SE to SW early in the evening won't be a problem with street lamps. The view won't be magnificent, but still interesting and great for the children especially. Likewise, moon views won't be affected by the lamps.

This time of year there's several nice easy targets to view rising in the east later in the evening, inc. open clusters Plieades, Hyades, followed by the Orion Nebula which is awesome.

Sky Safari is invaluable:

https://skysafariastronomy.com/skysafari-6-professional-astronomy-telescope-control-software-for-android.html

 

 

[Deisler]

1 hour ago, ScouseSpaceCadet said:

If you can see the sky, then there's always something on view. As someone once said, "Space is big. Really big...".

With those street lights blocked in your dark garden, zenith views will be great and plenty passes over at different times of the year.

To reiterate the point about the planets and moon. Jupiter and Saturn moving across from SE to SW early in the evening won't be a problem with street lamps. The view won't be magnificent, but still interesting and great for the children especially. Likewise, moon views won't be affected by the lamps.

This time of year there's several nice easy targets to view rising in the east later in the evening, inc. open clusters Plieades, Hyades, followed by the Orion Nebula which is awesome.

Sky Safari is invaluable:

https://skysafariastronomy.com/skysafari-6-professional-astronomy-telescope-control-software-for-android.html

 

 

Thank you. I will try those step by step. Can't wait!

I have SkySafari basic app on my phone. I found it very useful and probably enough for me to start this hobby. Will definitely buy Pro version once I am more into it.

 

[Nyctimene]

8 minutes ago, Deisler said:

Will definitely buy Pro version once I am more into it.

About twice a year, SkySafari is available at reduced prices (-50%). For use with an 8" to 10" Dob, the Plus version will do (owns most of the features of the Pro version).

Stephan

[wookie1965]

This is my view from my viewing position I will take a video during the day as well but as you can see I am very restricted.

[Deisler]

1 hour ago, Nyctimene said:

About twice a year, SkySafari is available at reduced prices (-50%). For use with an 8" to 10" Dob, the Plus version will do (owns most of the features of the Pro version).

Stephan

That is very useful to know. The basic version is good for me at the moment but I will certainly keep an eye on the offer they may have from time to time,

[Deisler]

1 hour ago, wookie1965 said:

This is my view from my viewing position I will take a video during the day as well but as you can see I am very restricted.

Yeah I can see that. You seem to have a slightly better view than mine. The south and north directions in my garden has 60 degree view blocked, you seem to have only around 30 degree blocked. But I guess mine may have slightly less light pollution, so it should be fine. 

Cheers!