Buying new quality eyepieces to view the planets - is it currently worth it?

[Mark at Beaufort]

My main two scopes at present are a 12" f/5 Dob and a 6" f/5 Skywatcher. When its dark enough I would say 95% of my time is dedicated to DSO observing. I had previously owned a quality 4" ED frac and a 180mm Mak/Cass which when using binoviewers gave excellent views of the Moon and the Planets.

I observe the Moon, Jupiter and Saturn with my current equipment but my highest mag EP is a 9mm 100 degree Myraid. I can use my TeleVue 8-24 zoom with a Baader 2.25x barlow to view double stars which is pretty good. The Myraid gives a mag of 168x and 83x in 150P.

Looking at  the positions of the Jupiter and Saturn it appears that Jupiter does not rise above the Celestrial Equator until late 2022 and Saturn late 2025. So do I purchase a higher quality EP - say 5mm or 6mm or buy something like a Skywatcher UWA Planetary (£37) to keep me going over the next few years?

[Piero]

The Moon is reasonably high in the winter. Which higher quality EP do you have in mind? 

[Ricochet]

How did you get on with using binoviewers and can you reach focus with them in your current scopes? If it was me I would always look to binoview for planetary unless it was impossible or for a lightweight travel setup where weight is important. 

[Mark at Beaufort]

4 minutes ago, Piero said:

The Moon is reasonably high in the winter. Which higher quality EP do you have in mind? 

I enjoy wider field EPs. I have thought about the ES 5.5mm 100 degree or the 5mm Myraid or APM/Lunt. What I really fancy is the 6mm Ethos but the cost is really too high. I could consider the 6mm Delos but again is it currently worth it?

I suppose a 68 degree FOV or high would be better for my needs (I accept the Skywatcher UWA Planetary is 58 degrees) so I really am unsure whichway to jump because of the poor position of the gas giants.

[Mark at Beaufort]

3 minutes ago, Ricochet said:

How did you get on with using binoviewers and can you reach focus with them in your current scopes? If it was me I would always look to binoview for planetary unless it was impossible or for a lightweight travel setup where weight is important. 

With my 12" Dob I had to use 2 barlows to gain focus - the view was good especially on the Moon but too much hassle to set up. Hence my reasons to buy something in the 5mm or 6mm range.

[Piero]

5 minutes ago, Mark at Beaufort said:

I enjoy wider field EPs. I have thought about the ES 5.5mm 100 degree or the 5mm Myraid or APM/Lunt. What I really fancy is the 6mm Ethos but the cost is really too high. I could consider the 6mm Delos but again is it currently worth it?

I suppose a 68 degree FOV or high would be better for my needs (I accept the Skywatcher UWA Planetary is 58 degrees) so I really am unsure whichway to jump because of the poor position of the gas giants.

mm.. 5mm gives quite a lot of mag with your dobson (~300x ?), maybe too much for Jupiter under UK skies. Nice view though! 

[Mark at Beaufort]

1 minute ago, Piero said:

mm.. 5mm gives quite a lot of mag with your dobson (~300x ?), maybe too much for Jupiter under UK skies. Nice view though! 

Yes I agree which is why the 6mm seems better (253x) in the Dob. Not many wider field 6mm EPs around - that I can find. So that is why I was looking at a cheaper options at the present time.

[John]

My 6mm is the Ethos but I've had it for some years now and may well not have justified the cost if I was consideing buying it now, with the planets where they are in the sky.

6mm is a very useful focal length higher power eyepiece eyepiece for scopes from 900mm to 2000mm focal length but when you look around there are not many choices around in wide field designs.

Perhaps the Baader Morpheus 6.5mm  would be worth considering ?. Quality without the very high cost of some others (although not exactly cheap either of course). Good for globular clusters and planetary nebulae as well as doubles and solar system targets.

[Mark at Beaufort]

2 minutes ago, John said:

Perhaps the Baader Morpheus 6.5mm  would be worth considering ?. Good for globular clusters and planetary nebulae as well as doubles and solar system targets.

Thanks John - I have been considering the Baader Morpheus especially for Globs and PN. I remember my 5mm Nagler and in my 10" Dob a few years ago I had a brilliant view of M13.

[Geoff Barnes]

+1 for the 6.5mm Morpheus. I was out last night observing the GRS on Jupiter and tried a few different EP's, including the SW Planetary 4mm and the 6.5mm Morpheus with and without a 2x Barlow and in.the end settled on the Morpheus on its own for the sharpest, clearest view. Even with the full moon very close and slightly wobbly seeing conditions the view was very good indeed.

[Mark at Beaufort]

13 minutes ago, Geoff Barnes said:

+1 for the 6.5mm Morpheus. I was out last night observing the GRS on Jupiter and tried a few different EP's, including the SW Planetary 4mm and the 6.5mm Morpheus with and without a 2x Barlow and in.the end settled on the Morpheus on its own for the sharpest, clearest view. Even with the full moon very close and slightly wobbly seeing conditions the view was very good indeed.

Thanks Geoff that is very helpful

[mikeDnight]

Pentax XW's are another option. Wonderfully transparent and sharp but no 6mm, only 5mm & 7mm close to the focal lengths you're wanting. Eyepieces are a personal choice, but I feel the XW's are some of the very best planetary eyepieces available, and I've owned a lot of top end brands. They make great DSO eyepieces too, showing amazing contrast, so be careful, as you might want the entire set! I feel that to get a better planetary eyepiece for mono planetary use you'd need to be looking at narrow field, minimal glass designs, such as Super Monocentrics or some high end orthoscopics. 

Edited June 16, 2019 by mikeDnight

[Mark at Beaufort]

Thanks Mike for your advice. I must admit that my best view of Saturn was using a Celestron 9.25 SCT and Pentax EPs - it was brilliant. The Pentax 70 degree EPs appeals and they are slightly cheaper than the Delos. I have owned Hutech and Fujiyama Orthoscoptics but the narrow FOV is not easy using a 12" push Dob.

[John]

7 hours ago, Mark at Beaufort said:

Thanks Mike for your advice. I must admit that my best view of Saturn was using a Celestron 9.25 SCT and Pentax EPs - it was brilliant. The Pentax 70 degree EPs appeals and they are slightly cheaper than the Delos. I have owned Hutech and Fujiyama Orthoscoptics but the narrow FOV is not easy using a 12" push Dob.

I have the Pentax XWs at 10, 7, 5 and 3.5mm Mark. They are really good as Mike says. When I compared the 3.7mm and 4.7mm Ethos SX with the XW 5 and 3.5 I eventually found that I preferred the XWs and let the Ethos SXs go to new homes. Not an easy decision with my love of hyperwide fields of view but once I started to notice the small differences in light scatter and sharpness I could not justify having both the Ethos and the XWs because I was reaching for the XWs from the eyepiece case.

[Littleguy80]

I recently purchased a secondhand 3-6mm Nagler Zoom. I paid around two third of the new price. A saving of over £100! It has 50 degree AFOV across all focal lengths. Very good quality and the ability to match the magnification to the seeing. A pricier option but I think the versatility justifies the cost. 

[Stu]

6 minutes ago, Littleguy80 said:

I recently purchased a secondhand 3-6mm Nagler Zoom. I paid around two third of the new price. A saving of over £100! It has 50 degree AFOV across all focal lengths. Very good quality and the ability to match the magnification to the seeing. A pricier option but I think the versatility justifies the cost. 

The Nag is a lovely little gem, I've had mine for a long time now and it really is excellent. Even up against some fierce competition like the Vixen HR 3.4mm it holds it's own under all but the best conditions.

[Mark at Beaufort]

36 minutes ago, Littleguy80 said:

I recently purchased a secondhand 3-6mm Nagler Zoom. I paid around two third of the new price. A saving of over £100! It has 50 degree AFOV across all focal lengths. Very good quality and the ability to match the magnification to the seeing. A pricier option but I think the versatility justifies the cost. 

Thanks Neil - I had a Nagler 3-6mm zoom and I found the eye lens and FOV too small using a 10" Push Dob. I accept it was sharp and contrast was good but I just did not like it preferring a wider FOV.

[Littleguy80]

34 minutes ago, Mark at Beaufort said:

Thanks Neil - I had a Nagler 3-6mm zoom and I found the eye lens and FOV too small using a 10" Push Dob. I accept it was sharp and contrast was good but I just did not like it preferring a wider FOV.

I understand. It can be challenging using the small FOV. Have you considered using your Myriad with a Barlow? I use my 9mm Lunt XWA, same optics as your Myriad, with a Baader VIP Barlow. The Baader VIP is excellent as you can add or remove T2 extension tube rings to vary the magnification factor. Removing the two 15mm extension tubes included with the Barlow makes it a 1.53x Barlow instead of the default 2x. The 9mm Myriad would then effectively be a 5.9mm.  My Baader VIP was another secondhand bargain costing under £100. The three variations of the Baader VIP, using supplied T2 extension rings, would give you 5.9mm, 5.1mm and 4.5mm options with your 9mm. I tend not to use this option a great deal as I prefer the sharpness and contrast of my orthos and Nagler zoom. Might be a more cost effective option until the planets are higher. 

[John]

2 hours ago, Littleguy80 said:

I recently purchased a secondhand 3-6mm Nagler Zoom. I paid around two third of the new price. A saving of over £100! It has 50 degree AFOV across all focal lengths. Very good quality and the ability to match the magnification to the seeing. A pricier option but I think the versatility justifies the cost. 

I nearly suggested the Nagler zoom but I saw that Mark was interested in a wider field.

The strange thing is that I've owned the 3-6mm nagler zoom twice but didn't really take to it so let them go and now I have a Nagler 2-4 zoom and use it very often. And I'm pretty sure they are no different to observe with, apart from the focal lengths 

I notice that Mark already uses a TV 8-24 zoom with a Baader Q-Turret 2.25x barlow which will cover 3.55mm - 10.66mm. Maybe thats enough given the low positions of the planets currently ?

[Littleguy80]

18 minutes ago, John said:

I nearly suggested the Nagler zoom but I saw that Mark was interested in a wider field.

The strange thing is that I've owned the 3-6mm nagler zoom twice but didn't really take to it so let them go and now I have a Nagler 2-4 zoom and use it very often. And I'm pretty sure they are no different to observe with, apart from the focal lengths 

I notice that Mark already uses a TV 8-24 zoom with a Baader Q-Turret 2.25x barlow which will cover 3.55mm - 10.66mm. Maybe thats enough given the low positions of the planets currently ?

Maybe the 2-4mm is a better compliment to your existing eyepieces, John? I seem to recall that you have some of the shorter focal length Pentax XW’s. 

You may well be right regarding the zoom and Barlow. Eyepiece choice is quite a personal thing. For planetary, I always pick the 9mm BGO over the 9mm Lunt XWA. It just gives the better views. I’m quite comfortable with narrow FOV for that purpose now. It’s not for everyone though and doesn’t meet Mark’s requirements. 

I am very curious to try a 6mm Ethos at some point. I’d like to see just how sharp and how much contrast you can get from a short focal length 100 degree eyepiece. 

[alan potts]

I personally would always go for the quality option, if say a Delos or the like bought secondhand, it will not lose money and in 5 years time could even make a little on resale.

[Mark at Beaufort]

Thanks Alan. I think I have decided to scan the used market for a better quality EP. Looking back perhaps I should have kept my ES82 4.7 and 6.7mm.

[jetstream]

5 hours ago, Mark at Beaufort said:

Thanks Alan. I think I have decided to scan the used market for a better quality EP. Looking back perhaps I should have kept my ES82 4.7 and 6.7mm.

The ES 6.7 82 is VG but there are sharper options, the Delos is up there but it is hard to beat the Docter (Noblex) 12.5 UWA with a barlow. It is great on faint DSO, and is superb for lunar/planetary. They are expensive but they are lifetime eyepieces.

A used Delos has much going for it too and if seeing conditions are not excellent then the differences diminish IMHO. Personally I don't like 100 deg EP for the moon and planets.

[John]

3 minutes ago, jetstream said:

... and if seeing conditions are not excellent then the differences diminish IMHO....

IMHO as well and thats where the quandary lies currently, at least for UK based observers. With the planets being so low, the seeing conditions are constantly below par due to the amount of atmosphere and other stuff we have to observe them through. So top tier performing eyepieces (with top tier prices) are less likely to give value for a few years yet.

 

[Alan White]

6 hours ago, Mark at Beaufort said:

Looking back perhaps I should have kept my ES82 4.7 and 6.7mm.

I have the same thoughts often myself Mark.
Sold both and bought a used Nagler T6 7mm, which is rather nice, but left no cash for the 5mm range.
Should have kept the ES 82's as they are not far off the Nagler if not the same in performance.