Binoviewer Wide field Eyepiece help

[NGC007]

Hi all, got my Baader Mark V Binoviewer yesterday and stuck it in my Baader Travel Companion 96/560 Apo.  Would love advice on the best eyepieces to buy for widest field viewing with good eye relief.  The Televue 32mm Plossl's look great on paper (2.8 degree true field, 22mm eye relief) but reviews are not great, at least in some scopes.  Opinions welcome.

 

Clem

[Peter Drew]

The widest field will be somewhat dictated by the size of the exit prism on the binoviewer, typically 22mm-25mm, if this is smaller than the field stop of the eyepiece then the eyepiece field will be vignetted.

[NGC007]

34 minutes ago, Peter Drew said:

The widest field will be somewhat dictated by the size of the exit prism on the binoviewer, typically 22mm-25mm, if this is smaller than the field stop of the eyepiece then the eyepiece field will be vignetted.

30mm prisms in this case. 

[Stu]

32mm TV Plossl should be very good I would expect, haven't read anything bad about them, what problems did you come across?

24mm Panoptic is well worth considering although 15mm eye relief may not be enough if you wear glasses?

[Stu]

There ia also the Baader 35mm Eudiascopic which gets good reviews and is pretty much max fov in 1.25" format

[NGC007]

11 minutes ago, Stu said:

There ia also the Baader 35mm Eudiascopic which gets good reviews and is pretty much max fov in 1.25" format

Thanks, Just had a look at them on the Baader website.  they state they are optimised for f/8 - f/12.  not sure how that will work out in my f5.9.  I calculate the exit pupil about 5.94 mm and my old eyes probably only get up to 4mm I guess so the image may be dimmed a bit, not good in a binoviewer in a small scope.  Yet, they may work anyway.  Hmmm, got me thinking.

Many thanks.

 

Clem

[Stu]

Just now, NGC007 said:

Thanks, Just had a look at them on the Baader website.  they state they are optimised for f/8 - f/12.  not sure how that will work out in my f5.9.  I calculate the exit pupil about 5.94 mm and my old eyes probably only get up to 4mm I guess so the image may be dimmed a bit, not good in a binoviewer in a small scope.  Yet, they may work anyway.  Hmmm, got me thinking.

Many thanks.

 

Clem

Hmm, yes that's a point. @mikeDnightuses them but at f7.4, worth being able to return if they don't work. 24mm may be a better choice from an exit pupil perspective.

[Moonshane]

24mm Panoptics would be optimal I'd think. 32mm plossls are good but you'd need at least one, maybe two eyeguard extenders per eyepiece too making them an expensive option. Personally, I have never been as satisfied with BVs for general astronomy as I I have for solar system astronomy and prefer cyclops for anything other than solar system.

[NGC007]

8 minutes ago, Moonshane said:

24mm Panoptics would be optimal I'd think. 32mm plossls are good but you'd need at least one, maybe two eyeguard extenders per eyepiece too making them an expensive option. Personally, I have never been as satisfied with BVs for general astronomy as I I have for solar system astronomy and prefer cyclops for anything other than solar system.

All my life I went cyclops but last year I got the Denkmeier Binotrons Super system (used in my dob now) and wow!  Deep space is spectacular in a 22" goto dob.   Tried cyclops the other night in my refractor and soo annoyed at having to squint, hate it.  Got the bug I suppose.  One thing is certain, no going back to mono viewing, so relaxing with binos.

 

Clem

[Louis D]

The 17.5mm Baader Morpheus has a 23.55mm field stop, so somewhat close to maximum field but at a higher power and wider field than the 24mm Panoptic, and it has 23mm of designed eye relief.  Bill Paolini has reported loving them in binoviewers.

The 22mm Vixen LVW (if you can find them) has a 25mm field stop and 20mm of designed eye relief.  It has a 65 degree field and excellent correction by all accounts.

There's also the discontinued 22mm Panoptic which has a removeable 2" skirt and better eye relief than the 24mm Panoptic.

Then there is the 28mm Edmunds RKE which has about a 50 degree AFOV, 24mm field stop and 26mm of usable eye relief.

[Highburymark]

I've just got the same binoviewer Clem, mostly for ha and white light solar, but looking forward to trying them out at night. The Celestron 32mm Omni plossls are decent and great value, but think I'll also pick up a second Panoptic 24mm at some stage.

[NGC007]

1 hour ago, Louis D said:

The 17.5mm Baader Morpheus has a 23.55mm field stop, so somewhat close to maximum field but at a higher power and wider field than the 24mm Panoptic, and it has 23mm of designed eye relief.  Bill Paolini has reported loving them in binoviewers.

The 22mm Vixen LVW (if you can find them) has a 25mm field stop and 20mm of designed eye relief.  It has a 65 degree field and excellent correction by all accounts.

There's also the discontinued 22mm Panoptic which has a removeable 2" skirt and better eye relief than the 24mm Panoptic.

Then there is the 28mm Edmunds RKE which has about a 50 degree AFOV, 24mm field stop and 26mm of usable eye relief.

Read that report on the Morpheus 17.5.  Thinking about I would get nearly 2.4 degree TFOV, not to be sniffed at.  Also an exit pupil of 3 mm so maybe I will look at them a bit more now, thanks.

[NGC007]

1 hour ago, Highburymark said:

I've just got the same binoviewer Clem, mostly for ha and white light solar, but looking forward to trying them out at night. The Celestron 32mm Omni plossls are decent and great value, but think I'll also pick up a second Panoptic 24mm at some stage.

This is my current true grab and go setup.  Not cheap mind but it goes where the dobs dare not tread!  Airline portable, overhead baggage.  Serge from Astro Devices is currently working on encoders for the Vamo mount, the ultimate Grab and Go.  The Hyperion mark IV zooms are great but need wider fields.  Will look at 24 Pans as well.  Thanks

[Highburymark]

32 minutes ago, NGC007 said:

This is my current true grab and go setup.  Not cheap mind but it goes where the dobs dare not tread!  Airline portable, overhead baggage.  Serge from Astro Devices is currently working on encoders for the Vamo mount, the ultimate Grab and Go.  The Hyperion mark IV zooms are great but need wider fields.  Will look at 24 Pans as well.  Thanks

Superb! Think you've got the perfect travel package. 

[alanjgreen]

+1 for panoptic 24, you have paid for binos with big prisms and the pan24 use the full width of the 1.25”format.

they are epic in my MarkV!

there is a pair for sale on astrobuysell 

http://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/propview.php?view=138591

For higher power, I have a nice pair of 18.2 DeLite which have 20mm eye relief and are nice to use too.

Alan

[jetstream]

14 hours ago, NGC007 said:

I calculate the exit pupil about 5.94 mm and my old eyes probably only get up to 4mm

It might be helpful to read up on the "false exit pupil" theory, very interesting. I use the 32mm TV plossls with my Binotrons and they are VG-with the eyeguard extenders. In the 15" f4.8 dob the 32mm plossls give excellent bright DSO views, Gerry

https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/61467-binocular-vision-summation/#entry792719

[F15Rules]

As you have an all Baader setup, the Morpheus 17.5mm should work well. 

I have one for cyclops viewing and it's excellent with 76deg for greater relief. In your travel scope it would give about x30, a very nice low power.

I believe all Morpheus EPs are designed to fit binoviewers, hence their relatively slim width.

HTH.

Dave

[NGC007]

20 hours ago, alanjgreen said:

+1 for panoptic 24, you have paid for binos with big prisms and the pan24 use the full width of the 1.25”format.

they are epic in my MarkV!

there is a pair for sale on astrobuysell 

http://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/propview.php?view=138591

For higher power, I have a nice pair of 18.2 DeLite which have 20mm eye relief and are nice to use too.

Alan

Tempting, so very tempting.  Just worried it might be too mush glass between the stars and me with just 95 mm up front.  That and the wife of course! Still, I agree, it's probably the way to go.  Just gotta work on it.  ?

[Louis D]

5 hours ago, NGC007 said:

The business of picking the right eyepieces for Binos is proving to be a very tricky affair and I am grateful for all the advice I have received thus far.

One minute I think I know what to do and then it all changes.  I was out last night scanning with the Hyperion Mark IV zoom on lowest mag and it was nice.  The Mark Vs diopter adjustment is not easy when the zooms are in unlike the Denks.  Yet I was very aware of the field stop, hardly noticeable mono viewing.    Still, will persevere as I know it will be worth it.  Gonna give the Stellarvur M2 a go tonight.  It's a heavier setup but it's got the encoders, pic attached.  Moon is up so they help.

 

How do you get on with the Baader zooms with winged eye guards?  It's my understanding that they rotate while zooming necessitating having to readjust them once you settle on a power.

[GavStar]

On 22/06/2018 at 14:07, NGC007 said:

All my life I went cyclops but last year I got the Denkmeier Binotrons Super system (used in my dob now) and wow!  Deep space is spectacular in a 22" goto dob.   Tried cyclops the other night in my refractor and soo annoyed at having to squint, hate it.  Got the bug I suppose.  One thing is certain, no going back to mono viewing, so relaxing with binos.

 

Clem

I’ve got the mark v and pan 24 combo which works great for me for widefield scanning.

Tammy on cloudynights has compared loads of eyepieces in his binoviewers and his favourites are the takahashi le30 which have good eye relief. Maybe one to consider as well.

https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/439262-tak-le-30s-tammy-called-it/

Out of interest Clem, how do the denkmeier binotrons compare with the mark vs? Don’t think there are many denkmeiers in the UK.

[NGC007]

18 hours ago, Louis D said:

How do you get on with the Baader zooms with winged eye guards?  It's my understanding that they rotate while zooming necessitating having to readjust them once you settle on a power.

Yep, they rotate, it’s a pain. Usually I just fold them back until I find something I intend to gawp at for a while then I adjust them. Like finding the right mag on Jupiter that gives the most detail for the seeing conditions etc.  That said, the zooms are really very good indeed and my most used eyepiece bino or mono..

 

[25585]

I have a pair of Vixen 8-24mm LV zooms. Thinner than the Baaders so better for IPD. Same optics as in the Tele Vue zoom of same FL range I believe. 

[NGC007]

4 hours ago, 25585 said:

I have a pair of Vixen 8-24mm LV zooms. Thinner than the Baaders so better for IPD. Same optics as in the Tele Vue zoom of same FL range I believe. 

Look nice.  I am after the widest TFOV I can get for sweeping, taking into account all the special needs binoviewing requires such as eye relief, weight, IPD etc.

Pan 24s tempting but I am concerned about IPD.  Mine is around 67mm.  Perhaps someone can comment on that.

[NGC007]

12 hours ago, GavStar said:

I’ve got the mark v and pan 24 combo which works great for me for widefield scanning.

Tammy on cloudynights has compared loads of eyepieces in his binoviewers and his favourites are the takahashi le30 which have good eye relief. Maybe one to consider as well.

https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/439262-tak-le-30s-tammy-called-it/

Out of interest Clem, how do the denkmeier binotrons compare with the mark vs? Don’t think there are many denkmeiers in the UK.

My Denkmeier 27 super binotron all singing and dancing kit is great in the dob.  A bit too tall in the Travel Companion and makes me uneasy which is why I got the Mark V.  The advantage of the Mark V (early days yet) is that the overall setup is lighter and I adjusted to them immediately.  Nice bright view as well.  Down  side is that once the zoom eyepieces are in it's a pain to focus individual eyepiece due to poor access.  The Mark V does help fulfil my aim to have the best truly portable scope I can afford.  It's a keeper I think.

The Denks advantages are, really easy eyepiece adjustment, you can collimate them, they take two filters and they have a low and high power switch!  

You need the OCS (optical corrector system) for them as well.  Not so the Mark V as the Travel Companion can be shortened for Binoviewing.  

Alas, I will probably have to sell the system as I cannot justify keeping them having spent so much on the rest of the kit. Sigh.

I can balance either system on the AOK Swiss Vamo head though.  

[25585]

22 hours ago, NGC007 said:

Look nice.  I am after the widest TFOV I can get for sweeping, taking into account all the special needs binoviewing requires such as eye relief, weight, IPD etc.

Pan 24s tempting but I am concerned about IPD.  Mine is around 67mm.  Perhaps someone can comment on that.

Morpheus eps have big eye lenses. My 17.5s only just allow eyeball line-up.

As a Barlow or OPC will magnify/extend, whatever ep will have effective smaller FL than its designed. So also your TFOV will be less as well. Using 24 Panoptics with 2x will be like 12mm but with 34mm AFOV. I think ?