Astronomers and flight...

[ollypenrice]

At a slight tangent to History of Astronomy, this, but I'm reading The Wright Brothers by David McCullough. It's a truly outstanding read with some entertaining astronomical connections.

Simon Newcome was one contemporary astronomer who spoke out on the absurdity of striving for powered flight, asserting that it would never happen. On the other hand another former astronomer, Samuel Langley, was the driving force behind several unseccessful powered flying machines and clearly believed it would be possible. Given that it took only 66 years to go from the first sand-skimmings at Kitty Hawk to the moon landing, Simon Newcome was wrong with a capital W!

By the way, I find as an astronomy provider that a passion for flight seems to go hand in hand with an interest in astronomy. Perhaps twenty of our guests in the last ten years have held PPLs, helicopter or gliding licenses and three have built their own aeroplanes. (One was on his fourth.)

Olly

Edited November 29, 2017 by ollypenrice

[PeterCPC]

"three have built their own aeroplanes. (One was on his fourth.)"

I wonder what happened to the other three

Peter

[Peter Drew]

You have to be well off to do either.   

[andyboy1970]

54 minutes ago, PeterCPC said:

"three have built their own aeroplanes. (One was on his fourth.)"

I wonder what happened to the other three

Peter

Paper aeroplanes aren't what they used to be!!! 

[Zakalwe]

I'm currently doing my National Private Pilots licence, so there may be something in this!

 

 

If you think that astronomy is a bottomless moneypit, then don't even think about flying!

 

[Jessun]

Don't know what you're talking about ;-)

My ol' friend:

 

[furrysocks2]

Slightly more modest, my last solo flight was in this:

[ollypenrice]

So there is indeed this strong mental connection between astronomy and flight.

2 hours ago, Jessun said:

Don't know what you're talking about ;-)

My ol' friend:

 

 Indeed, my very first guest at Les Granges was a retired Nimrod pilot. The connection is certainly there.

Olly

[Zakalwe]

2 hours ago, ollypenrice said:

So there is indeed this strong mental connection between astronomy and flight.

Astronomy is not a cheap hobby. Especially the ones that can afford to take astro-specific foreign holidays. Many of these may have retired from quite well paid careers and are still young enough to enjoy a variety of past-times.

It's highly probable that your sample size is very narrow and not at all representative of the hobby in general?

Another way of looking at it would be to sample a couple of flying clubs and see how many "do" astronomy. There may be a link, as amateur fliers will certainly have a far better grasp of atmospherics and basics like which way is North compared to the general public at large. For what it's worth, my local flying club doesn't seem to have many that peer at the sky, except to moan at the cloud ceiling (at least we have that in common!).

[steppenwolf]

I think there is something in this observation, a definite connection between the two. For me it is helicopters - and you thought fixed wing was expensive?

[Zakalwe]

2 minutes ago, steppenwolf said:

I think there is something in this observation, a definite connection between the two. For me it is helicopters - and you thought fixed wing was expensive?

I was having a brew with my CFI today down at Blackpool. The hanger that we were using houses a jet thats used for acrobatics. £900 quid an hour.
One bloke was slower than a slow thing with his checklists and blew £300 just taxying the thing onto the runway

[MrsGnomus]

 

5 hours ago, Zakalwe said:

I'm currently doing my National Private Pilots licence, so there may be something in this!

As Olly already knows (as we are part of his narrow sample!) both of us got our PPLs, Steve then got a night rating, an instrument rating, a commercial pilots licence in the States and even a share of a Cessna 182 before we gave up flying a few years ago.  Flying ourselves over the Grand Canyon or landing at Sedona and the international airport in Las Vegas was a complete blast and certainly beat any flying we ever did in the UK - taking off from Gamston and flying over the Humber Bridge just didn’t compete!

We just seem to have swapped one expensive weather dependent hobby for another........

 

[furrysocks2]

I learned on a grant, first paid flight was my first solo. Maybe only a couple of dozen flights since then. Wish I could afford to get back into it now.

[Trikeflyer]

I am an lucky enough to enjoy both aviation and astronomy.  I have a very understanding wife ?

[ollypenrice]

10 hours ago, Zakalwe said:

Astronomy is not a cheap hobby. Especially the ones that can afford to take astro-specific foreign holidays. Many of these may have retired from quite well paid careers and are still young enough to enjoy a variety of past-times.

It's highly probable that your sample size is very narrow and not at all representative of the hobby in general?

Another way of looking at it would be to sample a couple of flying clubs and see how many "do" astronomy. There may be a link, as amateur fliers will certainly have a far better grasp of atmospherics and basics like which way is North compared to the general public at large. For what it's worth, my local flying club doesn't seem to have many that peer at the sky, except to moan at the cloud ceiling (at least we have that in common!).

I'm not so sure. Firstly we are not astro-specific since many people come here for general rural holidays in the hills and, secondly, we are not at all expensive! (Our immediate region has two major tourist attractions, free flying and rock climbing. Astronomy is a distant third.)

In the first fifty years of my life I had never met anyone who had built his own aeroplane. Since coming here fourteen years ago I've met four. You're quite right, though, that sampling it the other way round would be instructive. For all that, I had the Flying Gnomuses last week and I have another PPL staying this week. And you yourself are keen on both. In my robotic shed three out of four scopes were owned by fliers until we lost Per. I'm going to take some convincing that this is coincidental.

BTW, I accidentally set up camp on a gliding-specific campsite the summer when I moved in here. I hadn't seen the sign saying it was for gliding club members. Nobody minded and I set up a scope that evening. The level of interest shown by the other campers was out of all proportion to that which I'd experienced on any of the many campsites on which I'd done the same thing, and the level of the questions I was being asked was very high indeed. It was a great evening, in fact, and I was invited to the annual dinner!

Olly

PS I've flown paragliders myself but never got to the stage of buying my own because I could see that it would be yet another opportunity to waste days, weeks and months waiting for the UK weather to sort itself out... I enjoyed it, though.

Edited November 30, 2017 by ollypenrice

[Martin Meredith]

Per ardua ad astra could equally well be the motto of the amateur astronomer...

Personally, I've never flown anything. I do love reaching the tops of mountains though, so maybe the common factor is a subconscious desire to get above the clouds?

Martin

 

[ollypenrice]

2 hours ago, Martin Meredith said:

Per ardua ad astra could equally well be the motto of the amateur astronomer...

Personally, I've never flown anything. I do love reaching the tops of mountains though, so maybe the common factor is a subconscious desire to get above the clouds?

Martin

 

Or is it some kind of Icarus complex, or even Faustian? Indeed, in Marlowe's Dr Faustus, Faustus has mastered astronomy and, after his pact with the devil, has himself borne aloft on a flying chariot.

Olly

[saac]

On 11/29/2017 at 18:55, ollypenrice said:

So there is indeed this strong mental connection between astronomy and flight.

 Indeed, my very first guest at Les Granges was a retired Nimrod pilot. The connection is certainly there.

Olly

Up until their exit from service Nimrod navigators were still trained in the art of obtaining a navigational fix from a star shot.  A little sextant type device was part of the equipment stored in the cabin just in case all else failed. Being based at Kinloss too would have been a delightful posting for any star gazer with the regular Northern light show during the winter months.  Maybe the connection is indeed real.

 

Jim 

Edited December 1, 2017 by saac

[ollypenrice]

1 hour ago, saac said:

Up until their exit from service Nimrod navigators were still trained in the art of obtaining a navigational fix from a star shot.  A little sextant type device was part of the equipment stored in the cabin just in case all else failed. Being based at Kinloss too would have been a delightful posting for any star gazer with the regular Northern light show during the winter months.  Maybe the connection is indeed real.

 

Jim 

Yes and, somewhat later than my Nimrod pilot, we had a retired RAF navigation officer staying who knew our pilot and had flown with him. He told me about his training in astro-navigation. Fascinating stuff.

I've just this minute finished David McCullough's Wright brothers biography and can honestly say that I've never read a more moving book.

https://www.amazon.com/Wright-Brothers-David-McCullough/dp/1476728755

Olly

[Skipper Billy]

Do 1/4  scale models count? 

https://sites.google.com/view/astro-imaging/other-hobbies/radio-control-model-aircraft

 

[ollypenrice]

On 05/12/2017 at 17:37, Skipper Billy said:

Do 1/4  scale models count? 

https://sites.google.com/view/astro-imaging/other-hobbies/radio-control-model-aircraft

 

Most certainly!

Olly

[Peter Drew]

I'm not well off (financially!) but I can afford to pay to have a pilot fly me to Tenerife, albeit with a couple of hundred others at the same time.  

[Science562h]

Right. I worked on aircrafts, as a lead aviation elecrician & went to Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University (ERAU) Florida USA. Our college teachers were from NASA's real flight safety control room, during Columbia, late 90s & early 2000s. They travel the world & teach classes for distance learning schools. We have to know all of the schematics and build all of the engines in power plants. Yes, there is a link, the use of: gyroscopes (gyros), automatic flight control systems (AFCS), navigation (NAV), ect. I could go on. 

Image: NASA Spaceshuttle Endeavour. Government image, no further crediting required.

I really worked on Boeing & Lockheed Martin aircrafts, like the ones, that make the current Orion shuttle. I actually worked on P-3 Orion aircrafts ... F-18 Superhornets, Orion, & Hercules.  Those are the, as you call 'em, 'planes, that actually carry the spaceshuttles, like pictured above. The U.S Navy picks up the Orion, in the ocean; you also have to be a deep sea SCUBA diver & breathe air, oxygen, nitrox & helium. I built 100s of 50 million $ military aircrafts & engines; I had to wire them by myself ... so did everyone else, thousands of others.   

A person working, towards a private Cessna license, just has to pay & take classes, that's it. Log hours, no degree or experience required. - just be rich. No sir, 1/4 scale RC park 'planes don't count at all, that's something for outright children. UAVs are different, those are like probes. A peron has to do it for a living & be an expert in the field; go all the way in school & profession. Working for Lockheed Martin & Boeing crafts is serious business, not a game. Entering the field of professional aviation-astronomy is more complicated than just teaching theory, getting a private Cessna license & flying an RC 'plane on the weekends, not like the Wright brothers flying a kite.  Time's up, on the clock.  

Edited January 1, 2020 by Science562h
Picture Insert

[Bagginsies]

I have always had a passion for the sky, be that skydiving, sailplanes or as I do now, paragliding, which turns out to be the cheaper and much more self sufficient of the three 🙂 

I don't think you have to FLY as such, but I do believe the passion for all things sky like freeflight, GA, space, model aircraft and even mountain climbing above the clouds etc do go hand in hand.  Many of the paraglider pilots I currently fly with have informed me lately of their interest and owned equipment in the astronomy area since I have posted some pictures on Faceache.

When you look at it, with an interest in space, the only way to get there currently is to fly, so maybe that is the common connection?

[RT65CB-SWL]

Does this topic include kite-flying ? ...some kite-fliers do fly at night.

😜

Edited January 2, 2020 by Philip R