The Good, the Bad and the UGLY!

[Stu]

You know the music.....  

So, 'The Good' aka Blondie was a lovely dark site near Bignor which, as it turned out, gave us mag 21.3 skies within 1.5 hours of Walton-on-Thames. The Milky Way was very clear with the Cygnus Rift obvious. It's really good news to have found a properly dark site relatively close and with a decent southern horizon.

'The Bad' aka Angel Eyes was the weather. The site is reasonably high, and there was a very strong, gusty wind and a fair amount of cloud blowing through although still nice periods of clear skies. The worst aspect was a stubborn bank of cloud on the southern horizon which completely blotted out the lovely treasures in Sagittarius which we had come to see, a real shame. It also lead to a fair amount of brightness from reflected light.

'The Ugly' aka The Rat was collimating my C925. I assume the bumpy track up to the site knocked it out, and a star test plus a quick look at Saturn showed that it need sorting to achieve decent results. However, I made a complete pig's ear of it, and by the time I gave it up as a bad job, it was about as uncollimated as an SCT is possible to be! I just couldn't seem to get it moving in the direction I needed . I have been planning to take it all apart so will do that and fit some Bob's Knobs to make life easier. Such a shame although the fact that objects like the Lagoon Nebula were unavailable to us made it easier to accept.

The trip had been long pencilled in for our club (Walton Astro Group) to get out of London's horrid skies (mag 19.1 ish at best at our local site) and to see some decent targets down in the southern skies. In the end, four of us managed to get away Gavstar, PeterW and Mo (not on SGL, yet  ). I had my Tak on the AZ-GTi, and the 'about as useful as a dustbin' C925. Gavstar  also had his Tak on an AZ-GTi plus his very beautiful AP Starfire 130 GTX on an equally stunning T-Rex mount. It is a beautiful and compact scope which gave stunning views of the few objects we managed to see. Mo had her 8" Skywatcher on an EQ6 (Edit I think it is an EQ5) which unfortunately was acting a bit like a sail in the wind. Peter was in usual widefield mode with 7x35 binos, some homemade 2 x 40s (I think!) and image intensifier.

The actual observing part of this report is rather brief. We saw a few of the showcase objects, not many, but enough to really see the benefit of the dark skies. M31, M32 and M110 were stunning in the AP, you could see the huge extent of the spiral arms. Personally I'm never quite sure when I'm seeing dust lanes in it, perhaps I did, not sure.

The Double Cluster was clearly a direct vision naked eye object, and was as good in the AP as I've ever seen it. The quality of the star images in that scope is just stunning, from the limited views I've had I prefer it to the TEC140. I just love looking at the tiniest of stars in the centre of these clusters, really lovely.

M11, again beautifully resolved, not much more to say. Caroline's Rose also looked amazing in the AP, so many delicate stars looking very rose-like with the dark lanes and swirls. Although clearly visible looking at it directly, averted vision really helped to strengthen the view and definition of the Cluster.

Best objects of the night, for me, were the Veil and NAN. Through the AP, with Astronomik OIII the contrast was lovely on the Veil but image scale too large to fit the whole complex in at once. That said, the Eastern Veil was stunning, complete with the two 'hooks' towards the bottom. Pickerings triangle delicate but clear, and the Witch's broom sweeping through 52 Cygni. Lovely stuff!

I really saw the benefit of a larger exit pupil when viewing both objects through my Tak with Lumicon OIII. I used my 40mm TMB to give 5.4mm EP and 3.67 degree field of view. This gives a similar fov as a 31mm Nagler but I think the additional exit pupil helped the view. The entire Veil complex fitted in, with Pickering's Triangle nicely visible, plus the divide in the Witch's broom, really beautiful. Not as detailed as the AP with its additional aperture and image scale, but a very nice alternative presentation.

The NAN was as good as I've ever seen it. I have only observed under Mag 21 Plus skies a few times and never when the NAN is well positioned. This time I preferred the view in the Tak purely because of the larger fov which framed the whole object beautifully plus the Pelican Nebula. I never tire of seeing this and it, plus the Veil in both scopes made the trip worthwhile.

Other highlights kit-wise were Gavin's T-Rex mount. Normally I don't like slo mo controls but you can't help but love the smooth control and length and flexibility of the cables. The mount is rock solid, only shaking slightly in the very high winds we experienced.

I was also quite impressed with my Gitzo/pillar combination. I was a little worried about it toppling over in the wind, but it stayed firmly planted which was a relief. The AZ-GTi did jiggle around a fair amount in the conditions but you can't really complain about that, it coped very well.

Overall then, a mixed night. One self inflicted disaster, weather that could have been kinder, but on the plus side, a dark site which offers truly lovely skies within reach on a regular basis. I am very much looking forward to heading back at the next opportunity.

[Beulah]

Great report. I'm impressed that you can obtain 21.3 MPSAS in that area of the UK - nearly 6.3 NELM!

Hope the newly discovered dark site isn't too far from your doorstep. You are in the right area to get a bounty of clear skies throughout the astronomy season. So full of win!

 

[Stu]

Thanks Sam. Yes, it's great to have found somewhere reasonably close, under 1.5 hours away.

We had 3 SQM-L meters with us, so it must be true  

Great to see you back on the forum by the way  

EDIT I suspect Elan is still a lot darker away from the zenith. Still, can't complain this close to the big smoke!

[GavStar]

Nice write up Stu. It's was great to get the AP out under dark skies for the first time. The number of stars visible in and around the double cluster (and the sheer brightness of the view) really surprised me.

The ease of finding and viewing the veil and North American Nebula showed how dark the skies were in comparison to our 'normal' skies. The nebulas were just so clear - no need for averted vision at all!

As Stu says all of M11, Caroline's Rose and M13 were stunning. (I wasn't impressed by the pacman though ?).

However, for me the stand out view was M31, M32 and M110. Andromeda has been an object I've been trying to get a good view of for several years but it's always disappointed. Not last night though - beautiful stuff and M32 and M110 were again so obvious with direct vision. At first M32 looked like a very out of focus star since I wasn't expecting to see it and then I suddenly twigged what I was looking it. A moment I won't forget.

Great views of the NAN through Stu's Tak - he really does choose his eyepieces well and is able to frame the objects he looks at superbly. That's what I enjoy most about these viewing sessions is getting the benefits of very experienced observers like Stu and Peter (and for free!)

Yet again the star shapes in the AP were just perfect and this created some very beautiful views. With the easy, quick setup and good aperture, plus it being relatively lightweight and short, this scope fits my requirements exactly.

The wind last night was a bit off putting at times - when it gusted I was quite concerned about scopes falling over but luckily no issues.

Kit wise, T-Rex showed how good it is even with wind. The ethos 21mm and ES 92 12mm were very complementary to the AP. However I was a bit disappointed with the Leica Zoom with 1.8x extender for the higher mag views - the smaller fov particular at the lower end of magnification really had an negative impact for me. I think an 8mm ethos might be needed.

All in all very fun with a great bunch of people. Bit tired today though...

 

[nightfisher]

nice one Stu, its great to find a decent site, but sounds like due to the elevation it suffers weather like we get here (1120feet above sea)

Hope you get out there a bit more.............nights are getting longer, happy days

[wookie1965]

Nice report Stu wish I could find dark skies within a hour and half from me. 

[Stu]

12 minutes ago, wookie1965 said:

Nice report Stu wish I could find dark skies within a hour and half from me. 

Whereabouts are you Paul, must be something around you can get to.

[wookie1965]

St. Helens Im looking now either the Peaks or Wales but its getting ehu and I need to be close to toilets as I cannot walk far now hoping MRI shows something I can have op fix me up.

[Piero]

It seems that you guys had a lot of fun, despite the bad weather!  

[Stu]

11 minutes ago, Piero said:

It seems that you guys had a lot of fun, despite the bad weather!  

Thanks Piero, yes we did!

[PeterW]

Stu I using my Nikon 2x54 TC-E2 bins with custom 3d printed eyecups and straylight shields, nice just cruising along the Milky Way.

 

North America and gamma Cygni were as good as I have seen. Not being able to explore Sagittarius was a pain.

 

I've measured the Isle of Wight at 21.5, but that north horizon is not brilliant and the ferry isn't cheap! Mid Wales and deserted bits of Scotland might go darker still, but its as good as you can probably get fairly close to London... if anyone knows darker locations I'd love to hear! Be good to collate SQM readings together.

The cocoon nebula was also nice with the dark nebula streaking away to one side. 

Pacman not impressive... no satiating some people... the heart, soul, ic1396 and california were visible, but not as good as  they can be.

Looking forward to more observing from there again.

 

PEterW

[cotterless45]

Brilliant Stu ! Pleased that you found a nearby dark site. We ' don't all fought the weather this year , hoping you get something decent , Nick.

 

[Stu]

Thanks Peter. I forgot to mention my Kasai 2.3x40s, fitted with Lumicon filters, one OIII and one UHC. Views were very nice, NAN clearly visible, but surprisingly I could not spot the Veil. Plenty of other nebulosity seen just scanning along the MikyWay.

[Stu]

3 minutes ago, cotterless45 said:

Brilliant Stu ! Pleased that you found a nearby dark site. We ' don't all fought the weather this year , hoping you get something decent , Nick.

 

Thanks Nick. Yes, really pleased, it's better than anywhere I've observed. Dorset, Devon have been around 20.5, PSPs have been worse though not measured and  Lucksall was around 21 the best I've been there. Obviously much closer too.

Need to get much more organized for trips though, I confess I was a bit of a shambles!

[Beulah]

8 minutes ago, Stu said:

 

Need to get much more organized for trips though, I confess I was a bit of a shambles!

LOL, you will never get rid of the Faff Element when remote observing...however prepared you are...

[Stu]

13 minutes ago, Beulah said:

LOL, you will never get rid of the Faff Element when remote observing...however prepared you are...

So true! I keep wanting to be all minimalist and efficient but there is always so much stuff, cables, dew strips blah, blah, blah  

Actually Gavin was very well organized and the AP/T-Rex combination is very simple so minimizes faff!

[dick_dangerous]

Great report - I hope I can get along on the next one; while you were enjoying the dark skies of the South Downs, I was taking a group of excited children around the Wetland Centre in search of bats. There were tonnes of them but quite a lot of clouds too! The site that Peter and I visited on Tuesday was a good step up from London, but it's down a slightly terrifying track with limited space, so I'd be keen to get down to Bignor for a spot of observing.

Paul

[PeterW]

Those Kasai were interesting, smaller than my homebrew ones, focussing took a while

The veil is actually quite thin, so I am not surprised you couldn't see it. Next time we get to a dark site you should try for some other "large" nebulae that I know well.

Just north of Cranleigh I got 20.7 earlier this week, maybe a bit darker closer to Leith hill. Of course it's not a whole lot shorter time to get to.

Paul.... clear tonight ;-) Still awfully windy though.

Peter

[GavStar]

55 minutes ago, Stu said:

So true! I keep wanting to be all minimalist and efficient but there is always so much stuff, cables, dew strips blah, blah, blah  

Actually Gavin was very well organized and the AP/T-Rex combination is very simple so minimizes faff!

Thanks - but I will have a think about replacing those battery holding white plastic bags with something a bit more professional ?

[Stu]

31 minutes ago, GavStar said:

Thanks - but I will have a think about replacing those battery holding white plastic bags with something a bit more professional ?

Funny, sorry for the tease  

1 hour ago, dick_dangerous said:

I'd be keen to get down to Bignor for a spot of observing.

Would be great to get you down there Paul

59 minutes ago, PeterW said:

The veil is actually quite thin, so I am not surprised you couldn't see it. Next time we get to a dark site you should try for some other "large" nebulae that I know well.

Just north of Cranleigh I got 20.7 earlier this week, maybe a bit darker closer to Leith hill. Of course it's not a whole lot shorter time to get to.

Yes, I think that's the problem, I was expecting to see it with these so wasa little disappointed. NAN looked great though, so please do point me at some larger targets.

Regarding the other sites, I do think that now we know there are Mag 21 Plus skies within reach, the extra 15 or 20 mins is well worth putting up with. I normally have to be in holiday somewhere to see the MW that well, great stuff.

[Stu]

In an effort to make the 'Ugly' a little more beautiful I have just fitted some 'Bob's knobs' to the C925 so will sort the collimation next time out  

[Alan White]

Sounds like a great visit by you all.

The blip being self inflicted cannot qualify as ugly can it?

Glad you had back up options as kit failure however inflicted if it's just the one item you have can be very traumatic indeed.

Sounds like a good location, perhaps this Essex boy needs to venture from the back garden to a darker site.

[Stu]

1 hour ago, Alan White said:

Sounds like a good location, perhaps this Essex boy needs to venture from the back garden to a darker site.

A very good plan Alan. The thing is, even a small lightweight scope can give excellent results if the sky is good enough.

[Paul73]

Wot no Dobs????? ?☹️

Sounds like a fun evening out. 

I need to put some effort into finding the darkest sites near me.

Paul

[Stu]

16 minutes ago, Paul73 said:

Wot no Dobs????? ?☹️

Sounds like a fun evening out. 

I need to put some effort into finding the darkest sites near me.

Paul

This was indeed a dob free zone  

We do have a couple of them in the group but none made the trip. Their owners are carefully vetted before being allowed in though.....  

I encourage you to do it Paul. We have been very tardy in getting to this site, but it will make a huge difference to what we can see.