Uranus and Neptune.

[alan potts]

Over the last two years I have had many things that have annoyed me, the centre star of M57 was one, but I never gave up and in the end believe I did see it with my 12 inch SC, I have definately seen it with the 18 inch, of that I am sure.

I have tried a good few times now for the Horses head but it seems to be away with the rest of its body at Sandown Park in an evening race when I look.

Now it seems the two outer gas giants have joined forces to annoy me as well. I started out with Uranus on what looked like a fairly reasonable evening with no Moon for a good while, though it was a getting colder night. I noted I could see M33 but the transparence lower down did not look anywhere near as good, the whirlpool is very close to overhead from here.

First view of Uranus I thought within a minute, Ah theres one, then it's gone and never did return, maybe that averted imagination that John was talking about.  I spent about half an hour looking and at times could see points of light kicking in and out that were for me too far away from the planet to be moons. I started out using the 10mm Ethos which offers X304 but soon went to the 9mm BGO which gives more, about X338, having little or indeed no luck with this I moved to the 8mm Ethos and X381. I really did feel that much above this was not going to help as focusing was difficult with getting colder hands and the seeing just didn't support it.

Moving on to Neptune which the goto placed smack bang in the middle of field even with the BGO, which compared to the Ethos'sss is a bit like looking down a large straw, the sort you get in those wonderful fast food places beginning with M. Firstly it was amazing how much fainter Neptune was than Uranus and as I have said before more blue as well as smaller, well at least to my eyes. The 8mm and maybe even higher were really required here, so I tried the 7mm BGO giving me a whopping X435, I rarely visit these cricket score powers though the image was steady enough at times. I have to say that no matter which eyepiece I used I could not see anything of Triton which I believe is at about a magnitude of 13.8, so it should be doable with this scope if it is in a reasonable place on its orbit.

After an hour and a half and not sure I still had toes in what was minus 6, I went to look at the software to see where they were. I do wonder why the Charts of the Sky to give it its English name lists moons that you would need Hubble to see at  Mag 24, though I confess I never knew that Uranus had so many moons, not that for one moment I believed I saw any of them. Checking Neptune showed me where Trition was and again I have to sadly report I saw nothing. I can only think they were all away at the evening race meeting Uttoxeter with the horse spending their small change. When I returned outside the clouds had moved in, very thin but enough to put pay to any slim chance I had of seeing any of the out moons this night.

I will try again,

Alan

[Stu]

Nice write up Alan, glad you remain good humoured in the face of observing adversity

I assume this was all with the 12" Meade? Have you tried with the dob yet?

What was the seeing like? I guess you need both good seeing and good transparency to have a chance?

Sure you'll get them in the end.

[nightfisher]

Alan, stick with it, you have the astro gear and you do get the skies out there in the lovely part of the world you live

[alan potts]

10 minutes ago, Stu said:

Nice write up Alan, glad you remain good humoured in the face of observing adversity

I assume this was all with the 12" Meade? Have you tried with the dob yet?

What was the seeing like? I guess you need both good seeing and good transparency to have a chance?

Sure you'll get them in the end.

Stu,

Yes it was all with the 12 inch Meade, with the ice and snow at the moment it is a bit difficult to get the Dob out. Seeing was not that bad judging by the fact that I was able to use a fair amount of power witout turning the discs of the planets into blurs, however I don't feel I had that require transparency lower down, overhead was fine but I can't move the planets I just have to lump it. Neptune was lower than Uranus which was not that badly placed at all. I just don't have that much luck. Had a good look at M45 between efforts after your post the other week and could make out 7 stars but that was it. I sometimes feel I know where they are helps and averted vision assists too.

Alan

[chiltonstar]

I would say from the relatively small number of occasions that I've seen Uranus's moons clearly, everything has to come together...... Excellent seeing, good transparency and a scope with good optics, tightly focussed and at the right mag (x270 with my 180 Mak). Any of these missing, and you struggle in vain........

Chris

[alan potts]

Didn't think of using the Mak Chris, poor thing hasn't seen light for ages. You did well to get down to Mag 13 plus to see them with the Mak, must as you say be a really good night and I am not totalyl sure I had that. Tonight looks clear but I really want some rain, in fact not some loads of it.

Alan

[chiltonstar]

10 minutes ago, alan potts said:

Didn't think of using the Mak Chris, poor thing hasn't seen light for ages. You did well to get down to Mag 13 plus to see them with the Mak, must as you say be a really good night and I am not totalyl sure I had that. Tonight looks clear but I really want some rain, in fact not some loads of it.

Alan

I think the flat field of a mak or frac may help here perhaps, because normally the tiniest error in focus and the moons or anything else at >mag13 disappear in my experience, certainly with a 180mm scope. I've spent 10 minutes or so trying to get perfect focus sometimes - I've thought of an add-on micro focuser, but of course that does move the focal plane back a bit more with the risk of more vignetting and aperture reduction.

Chris

[swamp thing]

Nice Read Alan. I enjoyed that.  

3 hours ago, alan potts said:

 

I have tried a good few times now for the Horses head but it seems to be away with the rest of its body at Sanddown Park in an evening race when I look.

 

You have no idea how funny that really is. Sandown park is about the last place you would ever see the HH nebula from  

 

[alan potts]

As I say a while since I used it but I would say on the whole it was easier to focus than the Meade ansd  on that I have a Moonlite focuser as well, may be a case of too many cooks.

Alan 

[alan potts]

2 minutes ago, swamp thing said:

Nice Read Alan. I enjoyed that.  

You have no idea how funny that really is. Sandown park is about the last place you would ever see the HH nebula from  

 

Steve, It was more a case of not being able to think of any others as I have never really been interested in horse racing, I guess Ascot is just as daft as I know where that is.

Alan

[swamp thing]

1 minute ago, alan potts said:

Steve, It was more a case of not being able to think of any others as I have never really been interested in horse racing, 

Alan

Me neither mate. I just happen to live quite close to the three race courses at Sandown, Kempton park and Epsom  

 

 

[alan potts]

Steve,

There was of course Beverley Race track near to where I used to live in Hull, It sits on a area known as the West Wood interestingly with few trees, back then I used to take the 3 inch Dixons refractor up there on the clear nights when I could, I bet it is nowhere near as good now even though I don't believe they have built too much around the general area.

[estwing]

I live about 10 miles from uttch as its know.....keep at it old bean, you'll soon pick these off, clear skies.

[mapstar]

 Nice report Alan

Central star in the ring but no HH nebula! 

If you can see that Alan then I'd better throw the 22" in the classified as the HH is much much much easier than the central star unless you are looking in totally wrong place.

I must've spent several hours searching for the central star. Direct and averted vision it would not pop out so I can only assume that my skies have never been transparent enough to get it.

I can get the galaxy (IC1296) nearby and the bright star just outside and often focus on these to use averted vision. No joy I'll keep looking or move to Bulgaria 

Mind you at present I wouldn't mind viewing anything bar clouds!!! 

[John]

I think I've glimpsed the centrat star in the Ring once or twice but I was not confident about the observation and have yet to repeat it so no tick in that box, yet.

No HH yet either.

Nice report Alan - sorry the outer planets moons were playing hooky. 

Triton is somewhat easier than the Uranian ones but still quite tough.

[niallk]

Nice report Alan 

That lovely 18" Nichol/Sumerian combo will make short work of those moons when the conditions allow

I've never been able to catch the central star of M57, an plan to have a first go at the HH if I can make a trip out to dark skies soon.

[faulksy]

Totally agree with Damien,  the Hh is a walk in the park but no central star. Must be brilliant sky's in Bulgaria Alan, your very lucky 

[alan potts]

11 hours ago, mapstar said:

 Nice report Alan

Central star in the ring but no HH nebula! 

If you can see that Alan then I'd better throw the 22" in the classified as the HH is much much much easier than the central star unless you are looking in totally wrong place.

I must've spent several hours searching for the central star. Direct and averted vision it would not pop out so I can only assume that my skies have never been transparent enough to get it.

I can get the galaxy (IC1296) nearby and the bright star just outside and often focus on these to use averted vision. No joy I'll keep looking or move to Bulgaria 

Mind you at present I wouldn't mind viewing anything bar clouds!!! 

Damian,

I have never repeated it with the 12 inch but I was pretty sure of it, this was after many nights and over 30 hours of effort and M57 is right over head here, that helps. I also feel having lived in both places for a good few years when my sky is clear it is very good indeed, especially after either wind of better still rain. I am sure I have done it with the 18 inch 3 times now but no HH so far, I feel on this, having read reports, it is bigger than I thought and maybe I have missed it for that reason. Last year we had clear nights that were excellent and when Orion is to the south there is nothing until Greece with only mountains between.

On a downside though I do find at this time of the year once the sun has gone the temperature drops very quickly. Last night it was 6 degrees at at sunset and and hour later was minus 3, I could see noticeable air turbulence in the tube of the SC whilst at fairly low powers and that is a scope that is keep outside. I guess having the roof of the obsey a dark colour is not that clever but they don't sell these tiles in white. I had a try for the moons again but again drew a blank

Alan

[mapstar]

1 hour ago, alan potts said:

Damian,

I have never repeated it with the 12 inch but I was pretty sure of it, this was after many nights of effort and M57 is right over head here that helps. I also feel having lived in both places for a good few years when my sky is clear it is very good indeed, especially after either wind of better still rain. I am sure I have done it with the 18 inch 3 times now but no HH so far.

Alan

I thought I glimpsed it, but like most here I cannot confirm it and so never put it down as a definite.

I'm not doubting you, especially with the master crafted mirror that's in your scope and the stable skies you claim to have. If it's as good as Calvins Nichol mirror (which I know it will be) then anything is possible. 

The horse head should be a cinch with optics and skies like that, I could just make it out on the Isle of Skye without a filter although extemely difficult and one I would not claim if it was the first time I'd seen it. The flame stood out really vivid without the filter which I never really bothered with just a quick glance.

As I said I'd better start looking round for a place over there and sort out the shipping costs for the dob .  

The skies over here seem to be blighted with very high hazy cloud for the last couple of years so I'm going to put my failure down to those and deny it's a lack of observing skill on my part.

I'll have it next time it comes up  here's a handy pic.

Apologies for straying off topic so back to the moons of the gas giants. Something I've never really looked for but I will in future as it sounds challenging to say the least.

[alan potts]

Damian,

The centre star is rated at 15.3 and I see there is also one to the side of it. Many times I feel I have seen something to the side of centre centre, even when I end up not seeing it but surely it cannot be this and is most likely an over active imagination. The 13 mag to the side is very easy from here, even before it is properly dark and I feel I have seen some of the others with the Dob. The downside to all these clear skies is , no or little water in the taps. We need rain and lots of it. People I met last Monday from villages around tell me they have had it as bad as 1 hour water every 10 days. I have a water tank outside which at the moment is at minus 10 and has its own radiator, this is to stop the pressure vessel in the pump from freezing more than anything but I guess at that low temperature even the tank, as large as it is, would ice up.

I dosen't matter about being off topic it is still observations we are are talking about. I recall clearly one of if not the first night out with the Sumerian pointing it at Orion with the 41mm Panoptic which would have an Exit Pupil  big enough for owl in the barn, far from a good choice. The month was march and Orion was in my darkest sky, there was the Flame as plane as day, I actulyl though it was the Pack Man as that is how it looked to me and in truth then I didn't know where it or the Flame was, golly it was clear but then I didn't even think of trying the HH, probably because I didn't know where that was either, other than in Orion.

As for these planets, Neptune is as I am sure you know not far from Mars in the sky and that is now starting to get low and must be very low from England, I feel this is not helping me see Triton. If the dam ice would only melt outside I would then get the Dob out but where I cleared a path I now have small ice mounds in my favourite spot and I don't much want to sit it in snow. I bet that would cool the mirror down, even thopugh I keep all scopes outside there is in fact a 7 degree difference (some nights) between where they are and the open air.

Alan.

 

[faulksy]

nice reporting alan, i can see the star just outside the ring easy and  that was with my badly twisted secondary , but havnt been able to view it since due to it not being in the sky now, but i will try again. as you said earlyer you didn't realise how big the HH is, it's very big alan , you will see it no problem from your location and those great sky's you tell us about let us know as soon as you see it. cheers alan

[alan potts]

32 minutes ago, faulksy said:

nice reporting alan, i can see the star just outside the ring easy and  that was with my badly twisted secondary , but havnt been able to view it since due to it not being in the sky now, but i will try again. as you said earlyer you didn't realise how big the HH is, it's very big alan , you will see it no problem from your location and those great sky's you tell us about let us know as soon as you see it. cheers alan

Mike, the problem with pony express is I am sad to say I was penny pinching and went for the 1.25 inch H beta filter, a mistake I feel now. I was always of the belief that an exit of 4mm was about perfect and this with the 24mm Panoptic delivers the goods. I now feel that a 2 inch filter on either the 31mm Nagler or 21mm Ethos would be better, I do have a 2 incg Astronomik's UHC so maybe I should try that. BTW M57 is still reasonable from here up to about 7.30, then the barn gets in the way.

Alan

[mapstar]

1 minute ago, alan potts said:

Mike, the problem with pony express is I am sad to say I was penny pinching and went for the 1.25 inch H beta filter, a mistake I feel now. I was always of the belief that an exit of 4mm was about perfect and this with the 24mm Panoptic delivers the goods. I now feel that a 2 inch filter on either the 31mm Nagler or 21mm Ethos would be better, I do have a 2 incg Astronomik's UHC so maybe I should try that. BTW M57 is still reasonable from here up to about 7.30, then the barn gets in the way.

Alan

Alan the H beta I have is the 1.25" and we all used it on the 13E without problem. It worked great 

Don't worry yourself about what eyepiece and exit pupil as everyone seems to be going down this route and completely over thinking it, it would've filled the complete field of view if I'd stuck the 8E in the focuser.

In skies like yours you'll probably pick its nostrils out once you're on it 

[alan potts]

20 minutes ago, mapstar said:

Alan the H beta I have is the 1.25" and we all used it on the 13E without problem. It worked great 

Don't worry yourself about what eyepiece and exit pupil as everyone seems to be going down this route and completely over thinking it, it would've filled the complete field of view if I'd stuck the 8E in the focuser.

In skies like yours you'll probably pick its nostrils out once you're on it 

You may well have hit the nail on the head, over thinking, though with me it is more likely thinking on an empty head.

My sky is not wonderful all of the time and since, as I have said many times, the lights have changed in the town, which is about 5 miles away, my sky to the South East is not as good as it was. The village though is very badly lit and I am a bit on my own at the west side with a fair lump of land so site wise I am much better off than many but I am sure not as good as the secret sites known only to the inner circle of the Dob Mob. The lights went out everywhere for 12 hours a few years back and there was a cloud break in the 2 feet of snow that was falling, that was a bit special for all of 8 minutes, then it was more snow, some parts got 5 feet of it.

Alan 

[faulksy]

you say you are sure that your skys are not as good as our dark sites that the dob mob go to ,don't believe it alan. the sites we go to are brilliant but i don't know anyone who has seen the central star alan only you, so your garden must be as good as we get over here plus you have your lovely house to pop into.

as damian says i have only viewed the HH in the 13E and that was in my 14" and now my 20"