Sirius A and B

[Helix]

Hi all,

We had a few clear nights in East Anglia. Despite the flu I decided that I cannot miss this rare opportunity. I collimated my 10" dob with unusual thoroughness because I had a goal in mind. Sirius B!  

Once I set up  I looked at Rigel and it's partner, Meissa then Trapezium. E&F were clearly visible. Even G&H (15 mag) popped out from time to time. It was a good sign to move to Sirius. Collimation was nearly perfect.

Sirius! I chose 5 mm XW  Pentax as a starter eyepiece and pointed my scope at Sirius. I was amazed straight away. A tiny bright dot was shinning right next to Sirius A. I increased magnification to 360 and it was obvious for me, Sirius B. I increased power to 520 and confirmed this is it.

Usually I am 'mad' about nebulae. I observe them with deep satisfaction. Same night I observed the Cone nebula and the Horse Head nebula etc. They are my routine winter nebulae. But Sirius B was like a delicious dessert on top of the main dishes. Absolutely beautiful double! I would advise to look at Sirius now because separation is up to 11". So Sirius is relatively easy to observe at the moment.

I attach my sketch if anybody interested to look at :)))

Thank you for reading,

Tatyana

[John]

Execellent report and well done !

I was thrilled when I saw "The Pup" for the 1st time. I agree that the 5mm XW is an excellent tool for the job as well - very little light scatter considering it's a wide field eyepiece.

While it's separation is realatively easy the huge brightness difference and glare from the primary star still make this quite a challenge if the conditions are a little unsteady, scope not in good collimation, cooled etc, as you mention.

You conditions must be better than mine because I'm still trying for the Cone, Horsehead and Trapezium G & H with my 12" here - very far from "routine" !

 

 

[chiltonstar]

Well done! Once you've seen it and clocked it as nearly due E of Sirius A, it's easier the next time!

I've yet to see Trap G & H - maybe more aperture or desert skies needed.....

Chris

[Helix]

39 minutes ago, John said:

Execellent report and well done !

I was thrilled when I saw "The Pup" for the 1st time. I agree that the 5mm XW is an excellent tool for the job as well - very little light scatter considering it's a wide field eyepiece.

While it's separation is realatively easy the huge brightness difference and glare from the primary star still make this quite a challenge if the conditions are a little unsteady, scope not in good collimation, cooled etc, as you mention.

You conditions must be better than mine because I'm still trying for the Cone, Horsehead and Trapezium G & H with my 12" here - very far from "routine" !

 

 

Hi John,

 

Thank you for the kind comment. I appreciate it.

I know what you mean when you say 'very far from 'routine''. I think many people did not see  Barnards 33 or H V.27 (NGC 2264) even with 20" dobs and years of experience. I see it with 10" dob. And I saw it with my 20" dob, too. So I can confirm that I am in the right place and looked at the right objects. I come to conclusion that I have unique abilities of my eyes to see dim objects. I am glad that some of my observing. extremely experienced, friends could confirm seeing  the Horse Head nebula in my 10" dob. It is reassurance. Usually, I am trying to sketch what I see so other can see I am in the right place. 

So for me personally all above objects became 'routine' because I see them 80% out 100% attempts.  

Once, I was asked to prove that I saw Barnards 33 in 10" dob. I offered to borrow my eyes  and when my offer was refused I started to do 'sketching'. 

 

Thanks again,

Tatyana

[YKSE]

Nice report Helix.

I'm though more inclined to believe that seen Sirius B is more seeing dependant. I splitted it  couple of times with 120ED and 80ED in the beginning of last year, but I've not able to do it a single time this winter, just hope I have a chance in the coming days.

[Helix]

1 minute ago, YKSE said:

Nice report Helix.

I'm though more inclined to believe that seen Sirius B is more seeing dependant. I splitted it  couple of times with 120ED and 80ED in the beginning of last year, but I've not able to do it a single time this winter, just hope I have a chance in the coming days.

I completely agree with you about seeing. I mentioned collimation for my sake if honest. I used to collimate just with a collimation cap. It is not enough for doubles, especially if you observe them with a dob. So this time I collimated with Howie Glatter laser collimator to reach 100% precision.  Seeing MUST BE excellent   for Sirius B.

 

Tatyana

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

Nice catch of the "pup". I had always thought G and H were mag 16, and never tried them, even with a 20" Dob. I tend to be able to spot things many others cannot see in my scope (just 8" in aperture), but never got beyond the rather easy E and F.

[lunator]

Good catch on the 'pup' 

Now is a good time to see it. I tend only be able to see it from away from home as the heat from the houses makes for pretty poor seeing. 

Cheers

Ian

[faulksy]

7 hours ago, Helix said:

Hi all,

We had a few clear nights in East Anglia. Despite the flu I decided that I cannot miss this rare opportunity. I collimated my 10" dob with unusual thoroughness because I had a goal in mind. Sirius B!  

Once I set up  I looked at Rigel and it's partner, Meissa then Trapezium. E&F were clearly visible. Even G&H (15 mag) popped out from time to time. It was a good sign to move to Sirius. Collimation was nearly perfect.

Sirius! I chose 5 mm XW  Pentax as a starter eyepiece and pointed my scope at Sirius. I was amazed straight away. A tiny bright dot was shinning right next to Sirius A. I increased magnification to 360 and it was obvious for me, Sirius B. I increased power to 520 and confirmed this is it.

Usually I am 'mad' about nebulae. I observe them with deep satisfaction. Same night I observed the Cone nebula and the Horse Head nebula etc. They are my routine winter nebulae. But Sirius B was like a delicious dessert on top of the main dishes. Absolutely beautiful double! I would advise to look at Sirius now because separation is up to 11". So Sirius is relatively easy to observe at the moment.

I attach my sketch if anybody interested to look at :)))

Thank you for reading,

Tatyana

well done helix, you must have amazing eyes to call the hh routine, you realy are a lucky person and well lucky to have skies as good as chile or Hawaii. seriously well done. need to get a howie now they must be brilliant

[Helix]

4 hours ago, michael.h.f.wilkinson said:

Nice catch of the "pup". I had always thought G and H were mag 16, and never tried them, even with a 20" Dob. I tend to be able to spot things many others cannot see in my scope (just 8" in aperture), but never got beyond the rather easy E and F.

Hi Michael,

Thank you for the nice comment about the'pup'. 

I see 8 stars in Trapezium when seeing and transparency are excellent. In 10" dob G&H come and go. I can confidently say that I can catch the glimpse of it. In 14" I see it clearly. How do I do it? I do not know. It make me happy and upset same time. Happy because I can sketch whatever I observe right on the field while I am observing with others and upset because others, except 1%, cannot see it. 

I stopped worrying about that. Also, I am absolutely confident that it is nothing to do with imagination. So some people have to change approach to telescope specifications, probably :)))

Regards,

Tatyana

[Helix]

36 minutes ago, faulksy said:

well done helix, you must have amazing eyes to call the hh routine, you realy are a lucky person and well lucky to have skies as good as chile or Hawaii. seriously well done. need to get a howie now they must be brilliantt

Thanks a lot for your comment. I honestly love observing and sometimes it is frustrating not to share my observation logs with others just because I see what I do not suppose to see. Well, my skies far from Chile or Hawaii. But can you imagine what I can see if I observe from there? Just joking  

Thanks again,

Tatyana

[Helix]

4 hours ago, lunator said:

Good catch on the 'pup' 

Now is a good time to see it. I tend only be able to see it from away from home as the heat from the houses makes for pretty poor seeing. 

Cheers

Ian

Hi Ian,

Thanks for your comment. I observed from my garden. Sirius was above my neighbour's roof. But probably some wind 16 miles/hour played the trick. It is still was doable. 

Sorry if I disappointed some.

Regards,

Tatyana

[faulksy]

12 minutes ago, Helix said:

Thanks a lot for your comment. I honestly love observing and sometimes it is frustrating not to share my observation logs with others just because I see what I do not suppose to see. Well, my skies far from Chile or Hawaii. But can you imagine what I can see if I observe from there? Just joking  

Thanks again,

Tatyana

you seriously must have eyes like a owl. can you imagine how much a owl could see with your skys and your well colimated dob, now that would be interesting

[jetstream]

Great report Helix!

I too have seen more stars in the Trap with a 10"- I believe it is H1. Hard to define really as it comes and goes with averted vision and is seen by rolling my eyes slightly around the area. The HH is visible in my 10" also - the Cone...well the Cone I'm struggling with so far using the 15".

Keep up the great observing.

 

[Piero]

Wow! Super report! It makes a lovely reading!

I cannot help agree with you about the sky over here. The seeing can be quite steady some times and if one goes to the countryside, the sky can be transparent enough for serious observation! Then, if to this picture one adds a good large telescope, and many years of experience, it seems perfectly natural to me that difficult targets become 'routine'. 

Congratulations and well done!!

All the best, Piero

 

Edit: 

About your comment that you see things that you found out only 1% of the people you met were able to see, I think that this should not really be a surprise but actually a normal thing. We are all more or less different, in size, in intelligence, in skills and so on. If we do not find strange that a basketball player belongs to about 1% of the tallest population, why should we be surprised if a person sees much more or better than us? I believe that your good sky and large telescopes as well as your experience play an important role in this. However, I don't doubt for a minute the fact that a person can just see better or more than another. Why and how this happens are another intriguing questions, but to answer this question one requires years of microscope, cellular and molecular studies, rather than a telescope!

 

[Helix]

3 hours ago, jetstream said:

Great report Helix!

I too have seen more stars in the Trap with a 10"- I believe it is H1. Hard to define really as it comes and goes with averted vision and is seen by rolling my eyes slightly around the area. The HH is visible in my 10" also - the Cone...well the Cone I'm struggling with so far using the 15".

Keep up the great observing.

 

Gerry,

 

Thanks ever so much. So grateful for your post. So happy to know that someone like you knows what I am talking about. I just feel relieved. And I agree that the Cone Nebula is harder even than The HH. 

 

Deep regards,

Tatyana

[Helix]

3 hours ago, Piero said:

Wow! Super report! It makes a lovely reading!

I cannot help agree with you about the sky over here. The seeing can be quite steady some times and if one goes to the countryside, the sky can be transparent enough for serious observation! Then, if to this picture one adds a good large telescope, and many years of experience, it seems perfectly natural to me that difficult targets become 'routine'. 

Congratulations and well done!!

All the best, Piero

 

Edit: 

About your comment that you see things that you found out only 1% of the people you met were able to see, I think that this should not really be a surprise but actually a normal thing. We are all more or less different, in size, in intelligence, in skills and so on. If we do not find strange that a basketball player belongs to about 1% of the tallest population, why should we be surprised if a person sees much more or better than us? I believe that your good sky and large telescopes as well as your experience play an important role in this. However, I don't doubt for a minute the fact that a person can just see better or more than another. Why and how this happens are another intriguing questions, but to answer this question one requires years of microscope, cellular and molecular studies, rather than a telescope!

 

Piero,

 

Many thanks for a great support and reassurance! You make perfect sense discussing different abilities. You just read my mind.

I am sure we have more than 1% of sharp-eyed observers who do not want to be involved in proving anything. And I know some. They are often quiet people with very deep knowledge and bottomless experience. They like a hidden treasure amongst us. 

But it is good to have forums like that. It helps to learn quicker, even when people doubt you, it helps to look for answers, stimulate your brain and it moves you to analyse  your observing habits.

 

I am very grateful to everyone for this discussion.

Tatyana

[John]

Hi Tatyana,

Out of interest, do you use a filter when you observe the Horsehead and Cone Nebulae ?. If so, which filter and eyepiece combination do you find works best for these objects ?

I'm trying to work out the best method to use with my 12" dob to see these before the winter is over !

Thanks

 

 

[Helix]

6 hours ago, John said:

Hi Tatyana,

Out of interest, do you use a filter when you observe the Horsehead and Cone Nebulae ?. If so, which filter and eyepiece combination do you find works best for these objects ?

I'm trying to work out the best method to use with my 12" dob to see these before the winter is over !

Thanks

 

 

Hi John,

When I observe both nebulae I use Lumicon Hydrogen Beta filter and eyepieces with 4-7 mm exit pupil, in my case 20 mm XW Pentax or 24 mm Televue Panoptic. Saying that, I like experimenting with eyepieces. I observed both nebulae with 5 mm XW Pentax, too, and it worked well. I constantly train my eyes to see dim objects. I am sure we can train our eyes (healthy) and brain to see dimmer objects, but I remember about limitation, of course. Also, I saw Cone nebula with Lumicon UHC filter and never without filter. The HH can be seen without filter on excellent night. I think, it is just me. I do not want to be burned alive on this forum :). But it is the truth. 

When I observe those nebulae and surrounding nebulosity I prepare my eyes in advance. I do not observe any bright clusters or stars 30-40 minutes prior observing dim nebulae. And I take time. Sometimes it takes a few minutes, for my brain, to decipher the image I see. I just wait. All depend on skies condition. 

Nebulae are like women, you need plenty of patience with them

Tatyana

 

 

 

 

[John]

Thanks for that feedback Tatyana - I'm sure nobody is going to "burn you alive" for reporting what you see.

It sounds like I have the correct equipment then, with the exception of really dark skies and eyes like yours 

 

[Moonshane]

Could your location be Canada? This might help a bit 

[jetstream]

[scarp15]

Good read, the 5mm XW Pentax is as I had been discovering, great for splitting doubles.

[Helix]

3 hours ago, scarp15 said:

Good read, the 5mm XW Pentax is as I had been discovering, great for splitting doubles.

My favourite eyepiece in general. Good for planetary nebulae, too. Thanks Iain.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

I have been reading up on the G and H1/H2 stars (proplyds, really) and it seems they may well have been brightening over the years, hence the conflicting magnitude measurements. 14.5 should certainly be in range of a 10", although the bright background of the nebula makes life harder. What is really need is an H-alpha/O-III rejection filter (the inverse as it were of a UHC) to suppress the nebula but leave the proplyds intact. I should give these proplyds a go if ever i am in a position to use a 16-20" from a really dark site.

Just a wild idea: I wonder if there is a way to use light reflected from a UHC filter (not at a large angle, that shifts the pass bands) to achieve the desired effect