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Best Binos For Upto £3K Please.

A40farinagolf

By A40farinagolf
in Discussions - Binoculars

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A40farinagolf

A40farinagolf

Posted
Posted

The clear skies last night caused me to rethink my astronomy desires somewhat.

I'm very lucky to have loads of kit to choose from ("her indoors" is very understanding) but the best thing about last nights viewing was using my 22 x 85 bins mounted on my AZ EQ6 mount (in AZ mode).

I'd used my 130mm triplet frac earlier in the evening and whilst being very good the single eyepiece viewing did not impress in the same way as my binos.

I've thought about a binoviewer on my frac but the reviews I've read are a bit indifferent and the design is a bit of a compromise.

What I'm considering is selling some of my kit to raise funds to buy a large pair of binos for up to £3k.

Which should I buy? How about Vixen 126SS-A?
Do you have any comments on binoviewers?

Thanks in advance.

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A40farinagolf

A40farinagolf

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With a budget of 3k I'd be looking hard at one of these.....

http://apm-telescopes-englisch.shopgate.com/item/39393634

At €2990 you'll have change for a quality rig to mount it on

Thanks for the link, they sell some great looking kit. The Lunt ones look very similar to the APM ones and are the same price.

I couldn't find a UK distributor on their website though. Do you know of one?

Thanks,

M

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A40farinagolf

A40farinagolf

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I don't know of a UK distributor, but I know where you can get the Lunt version a bit cheaper but ex-display:

 

http://www.bresser.de/Sale/Ausstellungsware/LE100-ED-Fernglas-inkl-LED-Sucher.html

 

I've bought a few things from these guys ex-display, and have had no probs so far.

 

I've salivated over these a number of times!

Thanks for the link,

they have some great kit for sale and I'd consider ex demo. Have the Lunt binos been up @ 2200 Euros for a while?

Regards, M

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Chris

Chris

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Thanks for the link,

they have some great kit for sale and I'd consider ex demo. Have the Lunt binos been up @ 2200 Euros for a while?

Regards, M

Hi, I've seen them on the site for at least a few months now, so there's probably not a massive rush on them judging by this. Probably a good thing because it allows you to consider all options before moving forward.

It's a lot of money still, I'd take plenty of time to decide if I was in your shoes. 

Having said this, I think they are a very good option and considerably cheaper than the usual price :)

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ollypenrice

ollypenrice

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It took over 200 years of telescopic astronomy to be able to detect a stellar parallax of two astronomical units (186 million miles or the displacement of the Earth around the sun in six months.) Binocular OTAs are separated by a few mm. I like binoculars (I like them a lot!) but there comes a point at which I think it becomes more cost effective to use a binoviewer than a bino-objective. What does one gain by having two objectives? It cannot possibly be the separation because, as above, it took us over 200 years to confirm a separation of nearly 200 million miles. What does one lose by having two objectives? The halving of the budget for the figuring and coating of each, the possibility of misalignment, the losses to a lazy eye if you have one, as I do.

I don't see how, pound for pound, doubling the expensive bits can beat doubling the less espensive bits.

I'm happy to be corrected. 

Olly

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BinocularSky

BinocularSky

Posted
Posted
[snippage]

I don't see how, pound for pound, doubling the expensive bits can beat doubling the less espensive bits.

I'm happy to be corrected.

Not so much a correction as an explanation. I agree with every single bit of snippage and, if it was just a matter of how much you can see, I'd have been happy to leave it alone :icon_biggrin: . But there is something else, less tangible. I've had the good fortune to have been able to observe through some lovely big binos (Fujinon 150mm ones, and a 12" binocular telescope). I cannot quantify it, but I find binoculars just so much more pleasurable than a scope with a bino-viewer (and the best combo I've seen through with that was a C14 with a Denk). I don't know why, I cannot quantify it, but I just prefer the binocular. I just like the pleasure I get from a big bino.

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pipnina

pipnina

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It took over 200 years of telescopic astronomy to be able to detect a stellar parallax of two astronomical units (186 million miles or the displacement of the Earth around the sun in six months.) Binocular OTAs are separated by a few mm. I like binoculars (I like them a lot!) but there comes a point at which I think it becomes more cost effective to use a binoviewer than a bino-objective. What does one gain by having two objectives? It cannot possibly be the separation because, as above, it took us over 200 years to confirm a separation of nearly 200 million miles. What does one lose by having two objectives? The halving of the budget for the figuring and coating of each, the possibility of misalignment, the losses to a lazy eye if you have one, as I do.

I don't see how, pound for pound, doubling the expensive bits can beat doubling the less espensive bits.

I'm happy to be corrected. 

Olly

Would a binoviewer not just dim the light you're getting through each eye? At a minimum it must halve! If you put two objectives together, you'd lose a lot less...

But the question is... What about doubling the objectives on binoculars... and merging those light paths into one EP? :tongue:

Expensive things are fun! Even if you can only look at them...

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A40farinagolf

A40farinagolf

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I'm no expert but simplistically if the available light is split by a binoviewer then yes the images must be dimmer; also there will be some additional internal losses as nothing is 100% efficient. I think that these negatives are cancelled out by using both eyes as your doubling the amount of rods + cones that are used. Perhaps the brain then uses the equivalent of an image stacking process to obtain a better final stereo image.

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pipnina

pipnina

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I'm no expert but simplistically if the available light is split by a binoviewer then yes the images must be dimmer; also there will be some additional internal losses as nothing is 100% efficient. I think that these negatives are cancelled out by using both eyes as your doubling the amount of rods + cones that are used. Perhaps the brain then uses the equivalent of an image stacking process to obtain a better final stereo image.

The brain is a strange thing.

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ollypenrice

ollypenrice

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Not so much a correction as an explanation. I agree with every single bit of snippage and, if it was just a matter of how much you can see, I'd have been happy to leave it alone :icon_biggrin: . But there is something else, less tangible. I've had the good fortune to have been able to observe through some lovely big binos (Fujinon 150mm ones, and a 12" binocular telescope). I cannot quantify it, but I find binoculars just so much more pleasurable than a scope with a bino-viewer (and the best combo I've seen through with that was a C14 with a Denk). I don't know why, I cannot quantify it, but I just prefer the binocular. I just like the pleasure I get from a big bino.

This makes sense to me because you're describing a personal experience and if you feel it you feel it.

I'm no expert but simplistically if the available light is split by a binoviewer then yes the images must be dimmer; also there will be some additional internal losses as nothing is 100% efficient. I think that these negatives are cancelled out by using both eyes as your doubling the amount of rods + cones that are used. Perhaps the brain then uses the equivalent of an image stacking process to obtain a better final stereo image.

Bar the scattering and absorption losses, which are slight, all the light still goes to your brain so I'm not sure that these losses are lost!

Here's the odd bit. Close one eye and the view does not get dimmer. You lose stereo vision, obviously, but from a rational point of view we can say that there is no real stereo vision information to be generated by binocular separation at stellar distances. But what about the agreeable impression of such stereo vision? I don't know, but if an observer feels it they feel it - and we are all doing this for fun.

Vision isn't all rational. I like refractors. I just like the view. I can't really explain it. I'm perfectly prepared to believe another observer who just likes binoculars.

One of our guests and friends is busy building a giant SCT binocular from scratch. Seriously giant. He made a little mock-up out of a pair of modified C11s and the view was certainly fine, though the availability of only a GEM made the effect on one's neck a little distracting!

Olly

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Physopto

Physopto

Posted
Posted

Astronomy Now has a review on the APM 100 mm  binos this  month.

As an introduction to bingo voewing in the morning I am off to have a look at a second hand pair of Vixen 25x125 mm. No idea what state they are in but I am hopeful as I have been thinking of it for a while. Reading these posts has got me interested.

Derek

 

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Physopto

Physopto

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11 minutes ago, Peter Drew said:

I would tread carefully with these, the early Vixen 25x125 binocular telescope was a poor instrument by Vixen standards.

I haven't been able to find out much about them on line. They are the black DX versions with none changeable eyepieces. Not even really sure what they are worth. The condition is as yet unseen. But it will depend upon price. I have been informed that the optics are unmarked! We will see tomorrow. If nothing else a day out. 

Thanks for your warning Peter, I have seen other comments but not sure if it is for these bins or previous ones. 

Derek

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MAN or ASTROMAN

MAN or ASTROMAN

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Re those APM 100'S reviewed in 'AN',

At £2649,they certainly fall within your budget.

They were tested on a Binoptic ii fork mount (£699) and a Berlebach tripod (£399),plus a Tecnosky half pier (£69).

I don't see me  buying them myself,in the foreseeable future,unless a mystery benefactor turns up!

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Physopto

Physopto

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A short note. I went down to look at the Vixen 25x125 DX binos this morning at Tennants sale rooms in Leyburn Yorkshire. They were estimated to be worth  £400-600. 10 seconds after I saw them I was sure they were not worth £100. Very poor design, separate optical tubes with gaps between the plates that were supposed to hold them in parallel. The left side was twisted  at an angle because every thing was loose and the ocular adjuster was almost unmoveable. In short a total waste of time driving 60 miles there. The tripod was battered to bits and in very bad condition. I left before the auction started!

It pays to see an item in person and not take advertised details as gospel.

I hope A40farinagolf  finds what he is looking for.

Derek

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BinocularSky

BinocularSky

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On 24/01/2016 at 10:19, doormij said:

But...every APM 100mm ED APO has been optical tested in Germany.

The optical quality is outstanding .

A friend has one, and I agree entirely; with decent eyepieces I think it's better than my Miyauchi (which is no slouch!).

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