disappointing astro books

[mcolbert]

Olly re the OP; I think that anyone on this site could identify a book or works that they find inspirational and it will be so for them for whatever reasons only.  Others don't have to 'agree' to what is inspirational to my way of thinking and hence my question regarding the 'problematic' books.  In identifying a work that 'you' find important, it says more about you than the book.  As an example, ABHT by Hawking was ok when I read it but I prefer Roger Penrose's works such as The Road to Reality or The Emperor's New Mind.

I have also found that when reading various threads that books / publications are recommended and so the information is there if we look.  May be it is a good idea to start a sticky on the topic?  That being suggested, it would probably be an evolving thread too, as we each continue to develop in our interest / passion and some works we would leave behind such as the above mentioned Turn Left... or magazines etc.

It seems from what has been posted so far, that there are publishers and others who allow slovenly work out into the marketplace and I find that it's good to fore armed as it were - especially in these days of using the net to buy books unseen or with only the briefest of outlines provided.  It certainly is a case of caveat emptor!

I for one am enjoying the thoughts and opinions coming to light here!  Time to get off the soapbox again

michael

[Paul73]

Interesting points. One man's inspiration is another man's drivel.

I am a big fan of the Cambridge Star Altas but many find it totally underwhelming. I believe that, only a matter of weeks ago, there was a whole thread dedicated to the rubbishness of said publication.

The Herschel 400 Observing Guide by Mr O'Meara is a nice book. But is useless to me for observing as I hate being forced on a predetermined route around the sky and found the index lacking. And, I don't live under pristine Hawian sky. So the authors claims as to the size of scope required to see various objects just left me thoroughly deflated. That said. If you are willing to put yourself in the hands of the very knowledgeable author, it is one of the best of its type.

Paul

[Dave In Vermont]

I'm wearing Kevlar® as I write this, but allow me to toss out (literally) Norton's Star Atlas. It was raved about as THE book for any amateur-astronomer when I was kid with a new 3" F/15 refractor. It arrived. I read it. The previously used expression "underwhelmed" comes to mind. I found it vacuous at best. The star-charts were tacky and uninspiring. I'd read better explanations of optical equipment in comic-books. And it's ability to be helpful to someone trying to learn their way about the nightime sky was as useful as bringing a sub-machine gun to a peace-conference.

As a person who cherishes his books and tries to keep them in mint condition, I don't even remember where I left it.

What do you want from a 13 year old kid studying organic chemistry at college-level?

End of rant,

Dave

[ollypenrice]

Olly re the OP; I think that anyone on this site could identify a book or works that they find inspirational and it will be so for them for whatever reasons only.  Others don't have to 'agree' to what is inspirational to my way of thinking and hence my question regarding the 'problematic' books.  In identifying a work that 'you' find important, it says more about you than the book.  As an example, ABHT by Hawking was ok when I read it but I prefer Roger Penrose's works such as The Road to Reality or The Emperor's New Mind.

I have also found that when reading various threads that books / publications are recommended and so the information is there if we look.  May be it is a good idea to start a sticky on the topic?  That being suggested, it would probably be an evolving thread too, as we each continue to develop in our interest / passion and some works we would leave behind such as the above mentioned Turn Left... or magazines etc.

It seems from what has been posted so far, that there are publishers and others who allow slovenly work out into the marketplace and I find that it's good to fore armed as it were - especially in these days of using the net to buy books unseen or with only the briefest of outlines provided.  It certainly is a case of caveat emptor!

I for one am enjoying the thoughts and opinions coming to light here!  Time to get off the soapbox again

michael

All good points. And I'm most impressed that you managed to get through The Empereor's New Mind!    Because I agree with the thrust of his argument I'd hoped to enjoy this book but I found it little short of impenetrable and felt a sense of relief when a friend with a Cambridge maths degree described it as 'inexcusably badly written.' Maybe that was why I couldn't understand it! (An explanation I preferred to the more obvious one, which is that I'm thick...  )

I rather agree with others that some of the practical books tend to have something of the Boys' Own Paper about them. Build your own space telescope with a dustbin lid, some fireworks and a few old mainframe computers readily available in local hardware stores. 

Olly

[MAN or ASTROMAN]

.......and when they deal with astronomy the major effort is always directed towards astrophotography. All very well for those into this topic, but the space (ho ho) given to actual visual astronomy is miniscule.

 Got to agree with the above. I subscribe to 'Astronomy Now',and it could probably change it's title to 'Astrophotography Now' the way its presently going.

 Nothing against the astro-photographers out there mind,but it's just not my thing (at least for now).

[Scott]

 Got to agree with the above. I subscribe to 'Astronomy Now',and it could probably change it's title to 'Astrophotography Now' the way its presently going.

 Nothing against the astro-photographers out there mind,but it's just not my thing (at least for now).

Buy a camera  .

Sorry, couldn't help myself. I do tend to disagree though. the mere fact that a magazine talks about a certain object (lets take "the science of cygnus" in the sept issue of s@n). surely  the mere fact that they are discussing the veil neb or albireo is observational enough to encourage you to observe it...you don't need a blow by blow description to do this. and then there's thedeep sky tour and the binocular tour, moonwatch. yes there are ap articals but the majority of these are really quite basic and  in my view are aimed at helping non-photographers to get images of rare events more than anything else.

Edit:-  Sorry for the fragmented post, got called away mid post .

[coulthamst]

.......and when they deal with astronomy the major effort is always directed towards astrophotography. All very well for those into this topic, but the space (ho ho) given to actual visual astronomy is miniscule.

I believe that Stargazers Lounge itself is an excellent barometer of the area interests of amateur astronomers. A check through the sections, topic totals, and replies totals will give a very good indicator of what kind and proportions of articles a good magazine needs produce and address in order to maximise its appeal and value.

[swamp thing]

Most guys I know who are serious about ther visual astronomy could buy my entire imaging set-up with just their ep case and still have money left over .

But you're a cheapskate 

[Scott]

But you're a cheapskate 

The cheapest of all skates 

[MAN or ASTROMAN]

Buy a camera  .

 Touche!, Scott.

[michaelmorris]

I also think that TLAO is more of a cult book than anything else. I think most astronomers would out grow this book before getting half way through it. I think a good star chart is much more useful

I think TLAO is a great book for those either starting off in the hobby, or only ocassionally dip in to the hobby.  I agree though that it is not an advanced observing guide.

[ollypenrice]

A good way to avoid bad books is to browse them first, which means being in a real bookshop, ideally second a hand one. I used to make an annual pilgrimage to Hay on Wye, the second hand book capital of the known universe. I could always find some great astronomy titles, often forgotten and usually by famous professional astronomers. You have the double pleasure of meeting the illustrious author through his or her words and of reading the book itself. And all for fifty pence on occasion. My copy of In the Realm of the Nebulae by Edwin Hubble himeslf came in at a minty £3.50 but what the heck? 

Like Dave in Vermont I've no idea where my Norton's is. As Dave says, underwhelming and the charts are too small for my eyes.

Olly

[cotterless45]

That's the trouble, if you're an observer, getting hold of decent sources where folk have actually seen reasonably achievable targets. That's where the observing reports on this forum are priceless. It's where folk have actually seen and recorded observing.

I still advise beginners to kick off with TLOA, then it's best looking on here. I've got a "Herschel 400 " guide, but I'm going to have to move south and buy more aperture to do much good !

Nick.

[Scott]

 Touche!, Scott.

I truelly hope my tongue in cheek remark was seen for what it was meant to be, light hearted banter. If I lived with descent skies, I may never have even started ap

[r3i]

A good way to avoid bad books is to browse them first, which means being in a real bookshop, ideally second a hand one. I used to make an annual pilgrimage to Hay on Wye, the second hand book capital of the known universe. I could always find some great astronomy titles, often forgotten and usually by famous professional astronomers. You have the double pleasure of meeting the illustrious author through his or her words and of reading the book itself. And all for fifty pence on occasion. My copy of In the Realm of the Nebulae by Edwin Hubble himeslf came in at a minty £3.50 but what the heck? 

Like Dave in Vermont I've no idea where my Norton's is. As Dave says, underwhelming and the charts are too small for my eyes.

Olly

Never had the joy of visiting Hay as yet but Wigtown (Dumfries and Galloway) is a marvellous book town.

I also own a copy of Norton that just sits on the shelf - I bought it a few years ago when I was in a collecting every possible star atlas phase and, like Dave in Vermont, I remember it being touted as the 'standard atlas' several decades ago.  For my paper based browsing I tend to favour a combination of a Planisphere, the S&T Pocket Atlas and Astronomy.com's Atlas of the Stars 'bookazene'.

[MAN or ASTROMAN]

I truelly hope my tongue in cheek remark was seen for what it was meant to be, light hearted banter. If I lived with descent skies, I may never have even started ap

 It was Scott- I had a good laugh when I read it! 

[Tomjo59]

Sounds like sacrilege to say it, but I was a bit disappointed by Patrick Moore's Data Book of Astronomy.  I found it was littered with numerous typos, as though it hadn't been proof read.  A shame, as it was meant to be SPM's final 'magnum opus'.

[mapstar]

I started out with TLAO but as other say quickly out grew it preferring the challenge of a decent star chart and the red light to grace it with.

[mcolbert]

All good points. And I'm most impressed that you managed to get through The Empereor's New Mind!    Because I agree with the thrust of his argument I'd hoped to enjoy this book but I found it little short of impenetrable and felt a sense of relief when a friend with a Cambridge maths degree described it as 'inexcusably badly written.' Maybe that was why I couldn't understand it! (An explanation I preferred to the more obvious one, which is that I'm thick...  )

I rather agree with others that some of the practical books tend to have something of the Boys' Own Paper about them. Build your own space telescope with a dustbin lid, some fireworks and a few old mainframe computers readily available in local hardware stores. 

Olly

Olly this raises an interesting question to whit; is there such an animal as a literary and not merely literate mathematician? )

If you still have the book you may remember the Note to the Reader about formulae and what Penrose does - skip to the text and return later.  It took me many returns!

michael

[ollypenrice]

Olly this raises an interesting question to whit; is there such an animal as a literary and not merely literate mathematician? )

If you still have the book you may remember the Note to the Reader about formulae and what Penrose does - skip to the text and return later.  It took me many returns!

michael

I think there is. John Barrow.

Olly

[mcolbert]

Thanks Olly, yes he would fit as he's written a play as well!  I must look into his writings post haste!  I wonder about his dexterity?

michael

[hughgilhespie]

Literate and literary mathematician? Charles Lutwidge Dodgson aka Lewis Carroll springs to mind.

Hugh

[hughgilhespie]

But back on topic! What always disappoints me are the books that claim to teach you about say image manipulation, eg Photoshop manuals. In fact they are simply list of instructions, do this then do that for page after page without any glimmer of insight into why! Surely there must be a decent book somewhere that explains enough of the theory of image manipulation. Please don't tell me to 'stretch the histogram' - tell me why I need to to and why this allows me to see more details in my images.

Someone, anyone pleeeeeese...............

Hugh

[mcolbert]

Hugh, firstly sorry for getting carried away there momentarily...  I'll respond to your question before the technical gurus can provide the answer you're looking for...

 

Please remember that the following is based on training as a professional psychologist who has also taught at tertiary level as well as having obtained an initial photography diploma before I grew up.

 

Manuals, like a teacher can only provide instructions for you to become familiar with the tool - by rote as it were.  The exploration, the insight is not provided by a teacher / manual but is a process emanating from within the individual once the use of the tool becomes automatic.  Think in terms of a martial artist such as Bruce Lee; he studied Kung Fu and other forms and then created his own form - Jeet Kun Do I believe it's called.  But, there is apparently a slight emphasis on one leg (I cannot remember if it is left or right) in the moves / kata and this is due to Bruce having one leg slightly shorter than the other, hence his individual take on developing his 'art'.  Now, if you apply that to any tool/manual/teacher it is the same thing - become familiar with the tool, use it until you know its limitations and what is was designed for and then, use it in your way.  All of this comes down to the individual's perception - how we see things.  You and I might look at an image and using PS make changes to how it satisfies us, but when you put the two images side by side, there will probably be marked changes.  This why in photography not everyone uses PS, there are other pieces of software out there such as Hasselblad's Phocus and so on.

 

I suppose that the other problem is the proliferation of lies in the market place.  Blurbs written by editorial staff who know nothing about the subject matter.  (I'm reviewing a dummies book on drones at the moment and there are a number of very weird concepts there!)  How often have any of us been in a similar situation as yourself and been disappointed with what we are told and how it is at odds with what we were originally after?

 

Now I'll let those with expertise "'stretch the histogram' - tell me why I need to to and why this allows me to see more details in my images." explain what you need and why.

I hope that this helps a fraction..

 

michael

[hughgilhespie]

Hi Michael,

An interesting reply but one I have to disagree with. A 'good' manual can teach very effectively by paying attention to and explaining the underlying science. One example, the best book I have come across  about imaging is the Handbook of CCD Astronomy, 2nd Edition, by Steve Howell. This is actually an academic textbook, albeit at an introductory level and Steve Howell is - or was at the time of writing - an astronomer at the National Optical Astronomical Observatory in Tuscon, Arizona.

So, I am looking for a similar book that deals with image processing post acquisition. A book full of 'whys' not 'hows'. Preferably not too much maths, but we are not afraid of the odd equation if it is important! I have searched for this book and have totally failed to find it. I am sure it exists though, otherwise how are people taught on formal image processing courses?

So, once again, If you have any information regarding the whereabouts of this book please contact your local .....................etc.

Regards, Hugh