The Ignorant Astrophotographer, In Over His Head

[Liquid360]

Just for context, prior to college I'd never ever riden or even sat on a motorcycle. Never even really looked at one close up. One day I decided I wanted to sell my car and buy a bike, a fast bike. Many people attempted to explain the insanity, but I went the next day and bought a brand new GSXR750, fastest bike in the early 90's. I stalled ten times between the dealers garage and the street, each time looking back at the salesman as a crowd gathered to witness my death.

I find great joy in this way of learning. What great fun!

[Thalestris24]

This is embarrassing to admit, but there was a good deal on the SV90. It was pretty and carbon fiber [emoji57] I saw many pictures of twin refractor setups and figured I'd find a purpose eventually [emoji51]

Hi

I reckon if you want to use the SV90 for observing, you'd be better off keeping it separate and putting it on an alt-az mount.

Louise

[wuthton]

My tip: I like to keep my camera square to the mount (when in the home position), I rarely change orientation to frame a subject as it makes it so much easier to return to a target at a later date.

[Liquid360]

Are you saying I should consider buying another piece of kit? I'm gonna end up having the nicest AP/Visual setup of all the homeless street people.

Hi

I reckon if you want to use the SV90 for observing, you'd be better off keeping it separate and putting it on an alt-az mount.

Louise

[Ant]

My advice for what's it's worth is as follows.

Most people, start of with simple kit and build on it. You didn't, you have everything now. This might make things very difficult indeed because you won't have any of the early trouble shooting lessons under your belt, so something like a lead not plugged in could have you scratching your head all night till you give up. But because there is so many wires and so much software all trying to talk to the PC, that without the experience of "ah hp that cryptic message usually means that..." knowledge, you may end up chasing your tail.

So my advice... Start simple.

Set the mount up and polar align. Add scope and camera. Connect camera to pc, sort your focusing out. If all you get done that first session is polar align, get the camera working and nail focus. Anything else will be a bonus.

Next session, repeat. This time it should be easier as you've already done it. So maybe pick a simple object, M13 is a nice bright object, it'll give you a nice WOW when you see it on screen. The short exposures should enable you to get some good 30/60s subs for processing later.

Again try not to do too much in one go.

Next time add the FW or guide cam, but add one thing at a time. Because everything you add changes everything. The FW will change the focus position, the filters will change the focus position. Adding weight will also change the balance which will effect tracking, if not balanced.

The FW positions I have stored as a txt file on the desktop, I follow a similar order to the others in this thread, except I don't have RGB. Remembering the position of each filter is important.

The port/usb cable labels is a superb idea. It isn't so important now with wind7 and 8, but XP was a nightmare, you had to manually reinstall the drivers for the device if you changed ports... Win7 still require a install but it knows and installs it itself.

One other tip i also have it to add the usb leads one at a time, let the PC see what your doing. Deal with it before adding in the next one.

I am not familiar with the communication protocols with the paramount, so feel free to ignore this next one. But I always plug the EQDIR adapter in first. ASCOM will only see the first 10 (or is it 12) com ports. With modern PCs those first twelve set go very quickly.

So in essence you could sum up my advice as, take things slowly, do one thing/change one thing at a time.

Cheers

Ant

[PhotoGav]

Are you saying I should consider buying another piece of kit? I'm gonna end up having the nicest AP/Visual setup of all the homeless street people.

You see, the first rule of astro photography club... 'Never Enough'. What appears to be the dream kit list is already not quite complete!!!!

You have to love this hobby!

The one thing that you will need in abundance is clear sky. I wish you great fun and luck and look forward to seeing your first light image.

[Thalestris24]

Are you saying I should consider buying another piece of kit? I'm gonna end up having the nicest AP/Visual setup of all the homeless street people.

Well I don't think you can observe and image at the same time on the same mount... A basic Alt-Az isn't expensive...

[Earl]

I have a 4se for observing, i cant deal with a dob due to this damned weak left side and my legs having a mind of thee own at times, its like been drunk but without the fun bit LOL

[Liquid360]

In the last 8-10yrs I've had eight MAJOR back surgeries. I feel your pain.

I have a 4se for observing, i cant deal with a dob due to this damned weak left side and my legs having a mind of thee own at times, its like been drunk but without the fun bit LOL

[Liquid360]

In following the terrific advice I've received here, I've shot off a couple emails to local university dept heads explaining my situation and desire for a tutor who knows his/her way around AP who can teach me the basics and get me started. I'm curious what the responses will be.

[ollypenrice]

Starting with good kit is going to make it easier than starting with bad kit. That is to say, easier than something that isn't easy!

First find a good site.

Next, master the mount. Sort out polar alignment first. It needs to be fairly good but doesn't need to be perfect.

Next sort out autoguiding.

Capture is easy once you are aligned and guiding. You just need to find and maintain good focus. Bahtinov Mask and/or full width half max.

Since you've shortcut your way to good kit you should make another shortcut and ditch the idea of taking several objects in a night. Like most people I had to grow out of this habit! Start with an object low in the east and stay on it all night. Get lots of data.

Having a one to one mentor would be a big help. In my early days I learned from our guests in just this way. Now that I've found my feet I return the favour with beginners. (I think that, since you're on the other side of the Atlantic, I can say this without it seeming like a plug!)

Processing is far more involved than capture and is evolving all the time. In a few sessions you can get your capture up to scratch. Learning processing is like learning any art; a lifetime is far too short.

Olly

[Liquid360]

Thanks so much Olly!! I'm feeling ever slightly more confidant and hopeful. Wish I was on your side of the Atlantic. Hopefully I'll be able to find a one-on-one here to get me up to speed. Picking equipment this expensive and over the top without any real face to face guidance was scary and VERY stressful. I'm thrilled to learn I at least got this phase right and have the equipment. I've not read much on here about the one on one which is just such a brilliant idea. Wish the community here wasn't spread so thin geographically. Finding another into AP anywhere near doesn't happen often.

[Liquid360]

Question 003:

In thinking about what to do with my SV90, I have a Canon T4i. Worthwhile to say eventually, once I've gotten experience under my belt, I should use the DSLR on the SV90 and QSI on the Tak for a dual imaging setup?

[Thalestris24]

Question 003:

In thinking about what to do with my SV90, I have a Canon T4i. Worthwhile to say eventually, once I've gotten experience under my belt, I should use the DSLR on the SV90 and QSI on the Tak for a dual imaging setup?

Hi

You could do that but I'd recommend concentrating on getting out there with the Tak and QSI and getting a year's experience under your belt before even thinking about anything else. In any case, once you see the images produced by a cooled mono ccd you probably won't want to regress to a dslr and the complications of processing noisy osc images...

Looking forward to seeing your first images soon!

Louise

[wxsatuser]

Thanks so much Olly!! I'm feeling ever slightly more confidant and hopeful. Wish I was on your side of the Atlantic. Hopefully I'll be able to find a one-on-one here to get me up to speed. Picking equipment this expensive and over the top without any real face to face guidance was scary and VERY stressful. I'm thrilled to learn I at least got this phase right and have the equipment. I've not read much on here about the one on one which is just such a brilliant idea. Wish the community here wasn't spread so thin geographically. Finding another into AP anywhere near doesn't happen often.

Very nice kit.

Take your time, things will go wrong at times but thats the fun of AP.

There has been loads of excellent advice on here, if you get stuck someone will always help.

[NickK]

I agree with ant - simplify. After spending time with a A80Mf on a Alt-Az mount that could just make out M42.. 

My first EQ based session with a brand new EQ6 and the Pentax - I spent a night learning to polar align the mount. Set the mount to sidereal tracking and simply looked through the scope to detect if it wasn't aligned properly.

My second session.. the EQ alignment went faster, put in some basic star alignments and tested my understanding of GOTO with a couple of stars and tried it - again visually looking through the scope. Learnt that setting up your finder scope is worth it when the goto is off by a field of view.. no guider tracking..

First AP session.. started with the EQ alignment, used the finder to get the approximate location of M57.. then looked for it visually.. found it.. switched to the camera (16ic!), refocused and then took my first images of a set of targets - without a guider setup. All with just mount sidereal tracking.

Attended SGL6 after two weeks with the Pentax.. spent the entire time repeating the find visually, then switch to camera to take a picture - no guider.. 5 minute subs.. lots of targets and fun I learnt a lot, swore a lot and watched others at the star party.

Starting processing images in Nebulosity 2..

Got myself a 383L.. 16c became the guider with an OAG .. this added more complexity but in a way I could build on my previous experience.. 

Moved to PI because Neb 2 was being a bit slow with the 17 MB images..

Slowly built my understanding from there...

[glowjet]

I see from your post you have recommended literature to read on the subject, if this does not include a copy of "making Every Photon Count" by Steve Richards ( Steppenwolf ) forum member, then you will be making a worthwhile investment in obtaining a copy, it is generally accepted as the imagers Bible by many of the photographers on this forum, see http://www.nightsky...hoton_count.htm  It is a small outlay which has big benefits, compared to what you must have spent on the rest of your very nice imaging gear. You are in for a very steep learning curve, enjoy

[Liquid360]

I'm very familiar with it, but you're correct. It is time to buy it. Any idea where is a good source in the states? It's not on Amazon or any other source I've looked. Must I order from UK? That link isn't working.

I see from your post you have recommended literature to read on the subject, if this does not include a copy of "making Every Photon Count" by Steve Richards ( Steppenwolf ) forum member, then you will be making a worthwhile investment in obtaining a copy, it is generally accepted as the imagers Bible by many of the photographers on this forum, see http://www.nightsky...hoton_count.htm It is a small outlay which has big benefits, compared to what you must have spent on the rest of your very nice imaging gear. You are in for a very steep learning curve, enjoy

[strutsinaction]

Hi Liquid360

Great kit list! It must weigh quite a bit so I'm intrigued - how do you move it outside with a bad back?

I started off in a similar way to you and relied on Making Every Photon Count, advice from SGL and Ian King (AP retailer/guru) to help me with my kit selection. It's a huge learning curve but deeply satisfying when things go right.

Good luck!

Regards

John

[faulksy]

Just for context, prior to college I'd never ever riden or even sat on a motorcycle. Never even really looked at one close up. One day I decided I wanted to sell my car and buy a bike, a fast bike. Many people attempted to explain the insanity, but I went the next day and bought a brand new GSXR750, fastest bike in the early 90's. I stalled ten times between the dealers garage and the street, each time looking back at the salesman as a crowd gathered to witness my death.

I find great joy in this way of learning. What great fun!

Nice bike mate, but far from the fastest in the early 90,s. A yamaha exup or a fireblade would eat it alive

[Scott]

Just for context, prior to college I'd never ever riden or even sat on a motorcycle. Never even really looked at one close up. One day I decided I wanted to sell my car and buy a bike, a fast bike. Many people attempted to explain the insanity, but I went the next day and bought a brand new GSXR750, fastest bike in the early 90's. I stalled ten times between the dealers garage and the street, each time looking back at the salesman as a crowd gathered to witness my death.

I find great joy in this way of learning. What great fun!

How on earth do you get a licence to ride a 750cc motorbike without even sitting on one? What's that saying? Only in America . That said, learning to ride a motorbike, any motorbike is childs play compared to learning A.P. I see no reason to pay for lessons, most folk are more than happy to share their knowledge. Just find your local astronomy club and join. Half the fun of Astronomy is meeting like minded folk (IMHO)

[Skipper Billy]

I think the guy/shop that sold you the gear has some moral responsibility to help you with the basics !!!!  

[Liquid360]

Thanks! If in 91-92 you were living in Montana and wanted to ride through Yellowstone on twisting canyon roads, the fastest way to do it was on the back of a GSXR750. I did my research. At that time the only one coming close was the CBR900RR. In those years what bike dominated superbike racing? Remember, I'm in the states.

Nice bike mate, but far from the fastest in the early 90,s. A yamaha exup or a fireblade would eat it alive

[Liquid360]

They are in California and I'm in Alabama. There are no local dealers anywhere within a 1500 miles of me. I wish this was not the case.

I think the guy/shop that sold you the gear has some moral responsibility to help you with the basics !!!!

[Liquid360]

There were no helmet laws either. The state does require a bike "endorsement", but it's unforced. Still Wild West up there. I just meant that I prefer this way of learning.that was the point to that little story. There are VERY few in Alabama into AP. There are a few visual astronomers here but I've yet to locate a single source. Huntsville, a home to NASA probably has more to offer, but too far away to really be helpful. I did send emails to local universities to seek help. Hopefully I'll hear back.

I eventually got my motorcycle endorsement. Riding a GSXR through a tight small pylon course is seriously hard!!!

How on earth do you get a licence to ride a 750cc motorbike without even sitting on one? What's that saying? Only in America . That said, learning to ride a motorbike, any motorbike is childs play compared to learning A.P. I see no reason to pay for lessons, most folk are more than happy to share their knowledge. Just find your local astronomy club and join. Half the fun of Astronomy is meeting like minded folk (IMHO)