Oh dear..is this the end of my astronomy..?!!

[tingting44]

Unfortunately the screens are a minimal legal measure designed to stop light entering your premises, not to help us astronomers. So the improvement is marginal at best.

thats the point it does not stop the light entering my premises or my bedroom, why should i go and pay out of my own money to get black out blinds just to sleep.....

[emadmoussa]

Unfortunately the screens are a minimal legal measure designed to stop light entering your premises, not to help us astronomers. So the improvement is marginal at best.

if I can stop the light entering my property - with their screen - then it's sorted I guess. I usually observe near the back of the house anyway..

[emadmoussa]

Emad, as shown in tingtin44 pictue that shield is not much use, but I recall there are shields that can be fitted to the back of the lamp or fit on the back of a post and run downwards a bit, this will not interfere with light being projected onto a street, but would help somewhat with it spilling back towards you.  See for example here for some protoypes that have been considered

I think the only way, as I have been doing with the council here with regard to one of my lamps post is to keep it constructive, instead of bashing and writing a complaints letter which could get things started on the wrong foot. Thankfully, I can hide from the lamppost I have in various spots quite well in my reasonably sized garden and fences, and the one lamp post I suffer from is a good distance way, but shielding woud help me for sure.

So far the council have been quite cooperative, though they mentioned I may need to pay 50 - 100 pounds for a more customised solution. I am on a waiting list to be done and for someone to come around to look at it and implement something.

This is what I asked for at least for the time being...I think if it's still a problem then they'll need to install a bigger screen. I'm happy to pay £200 to get sorted...by installment of course

[Paul M]

I can't see it mentioned anywhere in this thread but I'm curious as to what the councils motivation was for erecting the lighting?

Had there been a local campaign for more street lighting?

I'm just thinking that if the council just installed them with no particular request from the local residents, perhaps the council might consider fitting a timer so the light goes off after midnight?

My own town, in the middle of a conurbation is simply washed out

The slow creep of lighting has been so gradual that most people wouldn't know. Even my zenith is awash with glow.

A while ago, before LED became affordable,  they replaced the lighting on a trunk road with some very well screened sodium fittings. They were a revelation. All the light went down and zero glare.

Unfortunately the expense must have been prohibitive because they haven't used that style since

The technology and understanding is there, the will is lacking  

[oldpink]

the reason to move away from Sodium to LED is financial
LED's are far cheaper to run and last longer than sodium

to be honest the LED's are meant to cause less LP and they do at a distance
but if you are directly under one they are brighter than the old sodiums and a lot harder to filter out

[emadmoussa]

I can't see it mentioned anywhere in this thread but I'm curious as to what the councils motivation was for erecting the lighting?

Had there been a local campaign for more street lighting?

I'm just thinking that if the council just installed them with no particular request from the local residents, perhaps the council might consider fitting a timer so the light goes off after midnight?

My own town, in the middle of a conurbation is simply washed out

The slow creep of lighting has been so gradual that most people wouldn't know. Even my zenith is awash with glow.

A while ago, before LED became affordable,  they replaced the lighting on a trunk road with some very well screened sodium fittings. They were a revelation. All the light went down and zero glare.

Unfortunately the expense must have been prohibitive because they haven't used that style since

The technology and understanding is there, the will is lacking

This is what's called transparency...NOT We actually received pamphlets weeks before they started the project and in them they clearly stated that if you want a certain street pole removed or shielded they'll be happy to consider it. Fingers crossed...

with the current lights, the sky above is cleaner to be fair.

[andyman]

I new changing over to leds was too good to be true.seems to be causing more problems than the old sodium lighting....and why do they have to be so high....pathetic.i no what that monstrosity wants ...but will refrain from saying.lets face it astronomer or not....who would want that outside your back door...i for one would not.that seriously wants sorting....hope you manage to do something about it

[Mr Spock]

OK folks, I've just hidden some more posts. You are obviously no heeding the warnings given earlier.

If anyone else wishes to make any inappropriate comments, jokingly or otherwise, your posting privileges will be removed.

[oldpink]

they place them higher so they need fewer
the light from the LED's is more focused and angled down so a wider footprint per lamp

 

[emadmoussa]

they place them higher so they need fewer

the light from the LED's is more focused and angled down so a wider footprint per lamp

This is the point, but they replaced the ones we have with the same number of much taller LEDs.....

[faulksy]

OK folks, I've just hidden some more posts. You are obviously no heeding the warnings given earlier.

If anyone else wishes to make any inappropriate comments, jokingly or otherwise, your posting privileges will be removed.

sorry michael, your dead right though, couldnt resist at the time

[mitchelln]

I understand that one of the reasons for the height is if it gets knocked down it is more likely it will hit a roof rather than go through a window.

[emadmoussa]

I understand that one of the reasons for the height is if it gets knocked down it is more likely it will hit a roof rather than go through a window.

Surely, if they're shorter they won't be as vulnerable to mother nature. Their logic however for being tall I'm afraid I don't buy or grasp.

[oldpink]

all we can do is keep up the effort to get them to be more sympathetic to our cause
try to keep it civil and produce a good argument in your favour

I had issues when I was doing Ham Radio years ago, the council were outraged at the antenna masts I erected
one of which was 47 ft tall on a extending mast
I explained my government license allowed me to experiment in the field I was licensed and the antenna were needed for this 
they eventually left me alone and didn't give me any more hassle over it

Something like this

[m.tweedy]

Light trespass post curfew is maximum 1 lux.

get the lighting engineers to do a lux test. I requested they did with me and it turned out to be over 3. they then had a legal obligation to shield it. (with gaffa tape as it is side on)

http://www.britastro.org/dark-skies/pdfs/ile.pdf

http://www.britastro.org/dark-skies/inf007.htm?20

http://www.britastro.org/dark-skies/law.html?20

[oldpink]

very interesting
I've downloaded them for future reference

[emadmoussa]

This will be useful as well.

Title: Light pollution now subject to the criminal law of statutory nuisance
Authors: Morgan-Taylor, M. & Mizon, B.

2005JBAA__115__125M.pdf

2005JBAA__115__125M.pdf

[PaulB]

Have a look at this

http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/113007-observing-screen/

[oldpink]

Have a look at this

http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/113007-observing-screen/

nice idea for blocking out pesky neighbor lights but not much use when the light is 20 ft in the air

and directly over your property

[cotterless45]

We have 9 local streetlights, security lights each side, neighbours who don't use curtains and East Midlands flight path. I got so fed up I bought 10 extendable washing line poles and loads of dark throws from where ever cheapest.These are clipped on with huge plastic grips. The whole lot may be put away when not needed , so as not to upset Madame.

Now I have my enclave and it's great. No breeze or no direct light . They can put their lights on all night and flood their gardens at will.

For each problem there's a solution, if we didn't overcome problems , we'd still be swinging branch to branch ( think some of my neighbours do !)

Nick.

[oldpink]

my issue isn't that simple (if only) my front garden is south facing with decent horizon views east to west (anything above 8 degree's)
I have an expressway directly in front of me at 200m with a load of sodium lamps extending up to 15 deg from my FOV
there is no way I can block that out and with Saturn & mars low in the sky I find myself shooting between the gaps in the lights
vastly restricting my imaging time
I plan my imaging around the times the planets are not in line with the lamps  and jump about when one target is near the lamps

[jabeoo1]

I have a really tall street light that gives me some grief if viewing east.  During the summer the leaves on the tree 2 doors up grow enough to shield the light from my line of slight.  During the winter the (deleted swear word) shines right into my viewing area.  To get around this I peg dark fabric along my washing line to reduce the direct glare.  Its a shame the local councils feel the need to keep installing really tall lights that spread out and are not so uni-directional.   As Nick (the oracle of posts & threads) states, there is always a way around things, plan the targets in a favourable direction that works with the best of what you have.  It reminds me I must pack the car up and go out into my closest darker sky site more often, its just that the kettle and my few bottles of whisky are so tempting and they don't mix with driving that well (I would hate to damage the scope in transit). 

[Paul M]

I new changing over to leds was too good to be true.seems to be causing more problems than the old sodium lighting....

My employer has just spent an awful lot of money replacing all the fluorescent lighting indoors and sodium flood lights outdoors. It's been a huge project.

Forget the talk of reliability, there are endless failures.

As for glare, well, the floodlights are awful and dazzling. The internal lighting gives a very flat illumination and although I'm told that we have the same lux/m² it doesn't seem like it.

Apparently the energy saving will pay for the lighting and be in profit within a couple of years. 

I very much doubt they factored in the cost of perpetual repairs....

[andyman]

My employer has just spent an awful lot of money replacing all the fluorescent lighting indoors and sodium flood lights outdoors. It's been a huge project.

Forget the talk of reliability, there are endless failures.

As for glare, well, the floodlights are awful and dazzling. The internal lighting gives a very flat illumination and although I'm told that we have the same lux/m² it doesn't seem like it.

Apparently the energy saving will pay for the lighting and be in profit within a couple of years. 

I very much doubt they factored in the cost of perpetual repairs....

+1....with more and more sodium lighting being replaced i can see more threads started on this subject.having a sodium light outside someones house...although not ideal.. is no where near as intrusive as the (in your face) leds...personally i think they are a waste off money...some will disagree but each to their own.as for saving money...surely the most effective way for councils to achieve this would be a midnight switch off...already employed by some councils and i think should be rolled out across the country...but will it happen i hope so

[oldpink]

streetlights in housing area's should be dimmed in residential area's after say 1AM weekdays and 2AM weekends
the savings would be massive and not cause any problems