New Atik cameras with integrated filter wheel

[ollypenrice]

I had a very good look at the 29050 camera and like the design very much. They've tried to get the weight down in a very aesthetic way that looks like it actually adds strength.

The double fan system feeds into a funnel design that flows across the cooler back plate and not straight at it.

For the size of camera and filter wheel, they seem to have a fairly light package. With the sheer bulk of the chip, wheel and cooler there will always be an over hang but it didn't feel awkward.

The plugs look good.

Best of all, I over estimated the aim price point.

I suggested they fitted mounting lugs if they want to sell one to me. They said they were looking into that addition

A good over all product that will give QSI a run for their money.

Dave.

Any idea of where the price is likely to be? Break it to me gently...

Olly

PS What do you mean by 'mounting lugs' exactly?

[davew]

No need to sit down I estimated between £5K - £6K and they said no, more £4K - £5K. I got the impression closer to £5k. Still going to come in below any 16803.

I have the feeling the 11002 is going to a good home next year !

One thing I forgot to say is there isn't any desiccant. They are making the chip chamber Argon ( I think I remember ) filled and sealed with a seal life expected to be well in excess of a few years. I can see that being a weak point on some cameras but it must be the way to go.

Mounting lugs ? Why did I write that ? I meant Tripod bushes. One on the short side and at least one on the long side. That's for those who use camera lenses like me.

I did mention the body shape was just like another camera I knew well. I'll let you try and guess what they said.

Dave.

[SnakeyJ]

Crikey - just run the numbers on this through Dave's V2 12dstring site.    Looks like Ollys going to be enjoying 3.9x2.6 degrees with the 106 or a mere 2.4x1.4 degrees with the TEC140 not allowing for FR!   "Wow....Sky big!" as my 3yr old daughter likes to say!    Whilst I may not be able to buy my own, I'm certainly looking forward to seeing some results from the trials.

[ollypenrice]

Crikey - just run the numbers on this through Dave's V2 12dstring site.    Looks like Ollys going to be enjoying 3.9x2.6 degrees with the 106 or a mere 2.4x1.4 degrees with the TEC140 not allowing for FR!   "Wow....Sky big!" as my 3yr old daughter likes to say!    Whilst I may not be able to buy my own, I'm certainly looking forward to seeing some results from the trials.

I've got that chip size already but not at such a favourable sampling rate. In the TEC the 11000 gives a decent I.89"per pixel but in the Taks we are currently on 3.5, which is fast but coarse. The trick would be to put the 29 meg in Tom's 106 for L and Ha and catch the RGB in my 11000. That might even be better than running a pair of 29 megs, not that that is ever likely to happen!

Single panel, TEC; http://ollypenrice.smugmug.com/Photography/Widefield-images-including/i-gNvcb9N/0/X3/IRIS%20FANTOME%20WEB-X3.jpg

Single panel, Tak 106; http://ollypenrice.smugmug.com/Other/Best-of-Les-Granges/i-DnDNxQT/0/X3/EagleSwan%208HRS%20overlaysWEB-X3.jpg

No need to sit down I estimated between £5K - £6K and they said no, more £4K - £5K. I got the impression closer to £5k. Still going to come in below any 16803.

Dave.

Excellent news. Thanks for that.

Olly

[Anweniel]

Any likely knock on effect on the original cameras? Other than the second hand market for those upgraders.

So close to that purchase of a 383L that I have been saving hard for!

[AlistairHowie]

I was trading emails with Ian King on Friday and his understanding is that the smaller CCDs would, not surprisingly, be based on Sony chips including the 694 and 814 sensors, so I guess there could be some form of price impact there.  Or perhaps not - the integrated versions will probably command a premium rather than causing a discount on the existing products.  The second hand market will presumably be affected but the 460 and 490EXs are so new there's not a second hand market for them yet.

[perfrej]

So, all of a sudden the 29050 takes off I have, as Olly correctly stated, been drooling over this chip for some time now. I am a QSI guy nowadays but I am willing to consider Atik. £5k is about €4500 or thereabouts. At around $9k for the QSI, bought in the US and, uhum, "hand carried" to this side of the pond, I am (in my currency converted to pounds) still looking at about £5500. Then I do not need to pay VAT, so the Atik comes in at even less.

I'M INTERESTED!

Ian? Get me one!!!

Please make it have a seven place filter wheel that takes 2" threaded (I have a full set in the closet)!

/per

[Velvet]

i am also trying to get info, not getting very far at the moment

[FLO]

i am also trying to get info, not getting very far at the moment

It's a difficult path we tread when beginning threads like this one. On the one hand we want to share news and information but we need to balance that with our need to maintain good relations with the manufacturers, who might not be ready to launch. If it is any consolation we find it frustrating too

We can say the smaller models will be based on Sony sensors and the first of them will 'probably' be available to buy before Christmas. The larger model will launch sometime in the 1st quarter of 2014 and will feature the 29 Mp Kodak 29050 sensor with 5 µM pixels. Following that the larger model will also be available with 11 Mp and 16 Mp sensors from the same Kodak family. 

The smaller models will feature a 5x 1.25" filter disk and the larger model will accept 5x 2" unmounted filters. 

Both cameras will also feature some design/mechanical developments but news of those will need to wait until the official Atik launch. 

HTH, 

Steve 

[Velvet]

It's a difficult path we tread when beginning threads like this one. On the one hand we want to share news and information but we need to balance that with our need to maintain good relations with the manufacturers, who might not be ready to launch. If it is any consolation we find it frustrating too

We can say the smaller models will be based on Sony sensors and the first of them will 'probably' be available to buy before Christmas. The larger model will launch sometime in the 1st quarter of 2014 and will feature the 29 Mp Kodak 29050 sensor with 5 µM pixels. Following that the larger model will also be available with 11 Mp and 16 Mp sensors from the same Kodak family. 

The smaller models will feature a 5x 1.25" filter disk and the larger model will accept 5x 2" unmounted filters. 

Both cameras will also feature some design/mechanical developments but news of those will need to wait until the official Atik launch. 

HTH, 

Steve 

i know you may not have details but what filters will be in them, or can you specify which you want?

Velvet

[JamesF]

i know you may not have details but what filters will be in them, or can you specify which you want?

Velvet

I'd assumed they'd come without filters and that you would need to fit them yourself.

James

[FLO]

i know you may not have details but what filters will be in them, or can you specify which you want?

Velvet

Atik recommend Baader LRGB and narrowband filters, as do we, but I don't think they plan to package filters (the Atik 314L+, 460EX & 490EX packages you see at our website are assembled by us, not Atik). 

HTH  

[ollypenrice]

Maybe Velvet meant what filter formats would the carousels cater for? Astrodon don't do a 2 inch mounted filter, for instance. I doubt that Atik would delete a carousel format available for the EFW2? I hope not. I'm sure that when I get the 29 meg (assuming my next bank raid works out) I'll be wanting to use that filter!

Olly

[Velvet]

Atik recommend Baader LRGB and narrowband filters, as do we, but I don't think they plan to package filters (the Atik 314L+, 460EX & 490EX packages you see at our website are assembled by us, not Atik). 

HTH

ah that makes more sense now

[Velvet]

Maybe Velvet meant what filter formats would the carousels cater for? Astrodon don't do a 2 inch mounted filter, for instance. I doubt that Atik would delete a carousel format available for the EFW2? I hope not. I'm sure that when I get the 29 meg (assuming my next bank raid works out) I'll be wanting to use that filter!

Olly

i was looking at astrodons as that is what i have at the moment on the 106.  will have to wait and see

[FLO]

Maybe Velvet meant what filter formats would the carousels cater for? Astrodon don't do a 2 inch mounted filter, for instance. I doubt that Atik would delete a carousel format available for the EFW2? I hope not. I'm sure that when I get the 29 meg (assuming my next bank raid works out) I'll be wanting to use that filter!

Olly

There are no plans to offer alternate disks Olly. The filter wheels are built into the cameras, the Sony sensors wouldn't benefit from anything larger than 1.25" and using anything less than 2" unmounted filters in the larger model would almost certainly result in vignetting. I guess there might be some owners who already own larger filters who might want to use them in the smaller model but I don't think that will be an option. 

HTH  

[FLO]

This is worth mentioning: If someone is planning to buy an Atik camera we recommend they also buy Baader LRGB or Baader Narrowband filters. They are premium quality filters and, equally as important, their manufacturing tolerances and specifications are consistent batch-to-batch so we don't experience compatibility issues. Some other brands have a tendency to change their filter dimensions without notice which can be a headache! Atik cameras and wheels work very well with Baader filters. 

HTH,

Steve

[AlistairHowie]

Post #1 also hinted at "dedicated off-axis-guiders available for both sizes".

Can you share any further hints about this?  I guess you're talking just about the OAG hardware to connect to the integrated FW rather than a new Atik dedicated guide cam like a Lodestar?

[FLO]

Post #1 also hinted at "dedicated off-axis-guiders available for both sizes".

Can you share any further hints about this?  I guess you're talking just about the OAG hardware to connect to the integrated FW rather than a new Atik dedicated guide cam like a Lodestar?

We understand there are dedicated Off Axis Guiders in development for both models but I don't think they will be available at launch. We have been pressuring Atik to make a guide camera for a long time now. They recognise the need but it isn't high on their todo list. We live in hope  

To be fair the Starlight Xpress Lodestar has well & truly nailed the premium guide camera market. It would take something very impressive to unseat it. 

Steve

[AlistairHowie]

Something with a secure cable, perhaps. 

Thanks for the update.

[FLO]

Something with a secure cable, perhaps. 

Thanks for the update.

Yes, a more robust connection would be good  

[ollypenrice]

To be fair the Starlight Xpress Lodestar has well & truly nailed the premium guide camera market. It would take something very impressive to unseat it. 

Steve

Something with better cable connections would be good, though the camera itself is absolutely excellent. 

The vignetting arising from 2 inch mounted filters on the full frame Kodak chips is trivial, at least down to F5. At F7 it hardly exists at all. I get to compare 2 inch unmounted with 2 inch mounted regularly in otherwise identical setups, namely my FSQ106 and Tom's, both with Atik 11000s. Mine are mounted and the corners are very slightly darker but it is well within the power of flats to sort them. I've often heard (from Atik amongst others) that 2 inch mounted would vignette a full frame badly. I just don't find this to be so. Yves' full frame rig is also running 2 inch mounted without issue.

Olly

[FLO]

We play safe so recommend 2" unmounted filters Olly but it is good to hear you find 2" mounted filters acceptable with the Atik 11000  

I don't think they plan offering a 2" mounted disk but I'll pass on your findings. 

[ollypenrice]

We play safe so recommend 2" unmounted filters Olly but it is good to hear you find 2" mounted filters acceptable with the Atik 11000

I don't think they plan offering a 2" mounted disk but I'll pass on your findings. 

With hindsight I should have bought unmounted and you're right to advise as you do. I just never thought about it but, fortunately, it's fine. The EFW2 can be had with 2 inch mounted because that's what I have but there's no advantage to mounted. I think anyone starting from scratch should go for unmounted.

Olly

[RobertC]

I have never owned a CCD but that looks massive! 

Yes those do look on the rather LARGE size !