Going round in circles - 130p Heritage EPs

[bigrbuk]

I know this has probably been covered in many other threads, but that's partly the problem - I'm suffering from information overload!!

I have the 130p Heritage (f5), (supposed) max useful zoom of 260x and have been supplied with the 10mm and 25mm Super (MA I assume) EP's and a cheapo 2x Barlow.

From what I understand and from what I've seen - the 10mm piece really wants replacing and probably the barlow too. Bearing in mind I want to view the planets and moon, I've been looking into EP's around the 6-10mm region, first off, is that correct?! I've read all about Plossl's and any branded Plossl should be decent, or at least better than the supplied EP, but then I go on to ScopesNSkies and get confused by the apparent different Plossl's. I considered a zoom as a relatively cheap way of achieving multiple zooms, but as with anything like that, seperates are always better than bundled. I'm then led towards planetary EP's specifically for my chosen viewing. I've read about eye relief and FOV and basically I'm in a spin!

Cheap Plossl - is this any good? http://www.scopesnsk...l-eyepiece.html

More expensive Plossl - noticeably better? http://www.scopesnsk...l-eyepiece.html

Omni Plossl - huh? http://www.firstligh...l-eyepiece.html

Better suited to f6 or slower? - http://www.firstlightoptics.com/skywatcher-eyepieces/skywatcher-sp-plossl-eyepieces.html

I need some hand-holding here

(and sorry for any duplication!)

[PorkyB]

BST Explorers come highly recommended on this forum. I have three and find them an excellent step up from the stock eyepieces. At £47 a go they are affordable. See http://www.skysthelimit.org.uk/ or search Ebay for "BST Explorer".

[Pappy Nick]

I bought the Skywatcher Super Plossl eyepieces and I've also got the Skywatcher Deluxe X2 Barlow for my Heritage 130p. Works for me

[JamesF]

Regarding the "f/6 or slower" note, fast scopes are more demanding of eyepiece optics, so if the optics aren't pretty good eyepieces are often labelled as more suitable for use in slower scopes. The Heritage 130 is fairly fast at f/5 if I recall, so I'd be inclined to avoid those eyepieces that are "best for slower scopes". The Omnis are ok for eyepieces at the cheap end of the market, but not stunning, and the shorter focal lengths are quite tight for eye relief I believe. The amount of eye relief tells you how close your eye needs to be to the eyepiece to focus properly on the image. If you need to wear glasses for viewing (if you're astigmatic, for example) or just don't like having something very close to your eye, then eyepieces with limited eye relief are probably not for you.

James

[Bart]

Go for the BSTs from Skies the Limit, they are good and they are very affordable. In addition, they have a wider field of view at 60 degrees than the plossls.

The thing about eyepieces is that everyone has different experiences, its very hard to decide on one, especially when you're new. If you think you're in it for the long term, get good eyepieces. This will depend on whether you plan to use fast or slow scopes or not in the future if you upgrade. Fast scopes (F5 and lower) are demanding on eyepieces. However, if you're not sure long term, get decent affordable ones first. I still use my BSTs in my 10" F5 Dob

HTH

Barry

[Albenn]

Hi Bigrbuk

I too have the Heritage 130p and opted for the Vixen NPL ep's as listed in my signature. All I can say is that these ep's work really well with the Heritage. If the seeing is good I use the 8mm with a TAL 2x Barlow which gives great views of Saturn. I have used the 4mm with the Barlow during good seeing but it did give great views of the moon. I tend to Barlow the 8mm rather than just use the 4mm as the eye relief is more comfortable than that with just the 4mm.

Hope this helps.

[bigrbuk]

It appears to be a toss up between the BST and Vixens then, perhaps leaning towards BST for the higher mag/planetary stuff with better eye relief and NPL for lower mag work/DSO? That sound about right?

With that in mind I think I might go for an 8mm BST to start, I'm not sure my conditions will suit anything smaller, then maybe a 15-20mm NPL at a later date.

....and a new barlow (suggestions?)

....and a nebula/LP filter

[nightfisher]

another vote for the BST, but a word of warning, once you have one BST you will want more, the 18mm is a right peach

[Naemeth]

It appears to be a toss up between the BST and Vixens then, perhaps leaning towards BST for the higher mag/planetary stuff with better eye relief and NPL for lower mag work/DSO? That sound about right?

With that in mind I think I might go for an 8mm BST to start, I'm not sure my conditions will suit anything smaller, then maybe a 15-20mm NPL at a later date.

....and a new barlow (suggestions?)

....and a nebula/LP filter

Conditions with the Heritage should suit lower than 8mm IMO. 8mm only gives you 81.25x, 4mm gives 162.5x and 3.2mm gives 203.125x. All very useable in the UK .

I personally went for the "TMB Designed" 4mm (the first generation one, £36 I believe) from Sky's the Limit and enjoyed the views of it (although, the Planets have been invisible in my back garden due to obstructions and the fact they are low down). They are very nice eyepieces and can offer up to 16mm eye relief (adjustable) and are very comfortable. When conditions permit, I'll be using the 4mm much more, but for now I go for much lower power EPs, plossls are great for this use and offer plenty of eye relief.

[bigrbuk]

Conditions with the Heritage should suit lower than 8mm IMO. 8mm only gives you 81.25x, 4mm gives 162.5x and 3.2mm gives 203.125x. All very useable in the UK .

I personally went for the "TMB Designed" 4mm (the first generation one, £36 I believe) from Sky's the Limit and enjoyed the views of it (although, the Planets have been invisible in my back garden due to obstructions and the fact they are low down). They are very nice eyepieces and can offer up to 16mm eye relief (adjustable) and are very comfortable. When conditions permit, I'll be using the 4mm much more, but for now I go for much lower power EPs, plossls are great for this use and offer plenty of eye relief.

I was going for 8mm with the ability to barlow instead of something smaller, based on the pinned eyepieces thread (http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/43171-eyepieces-the-very-least-you-need/). Do the rules not necessarily apply to non-plossl's? I'm just concerned I'll hardly ever get the chance to use something like a 4/5mm

[rwilkey]

The TAL 2x Barlow is a good one, but hard to find stock anywhere as they are so popular. If you are looking for a nebula filter, I would suggest the Sky Watcher UHC filter to start, and then later the Sky Watcher OIII filter, both excellent filters.

[Naemeth]

I was going for 8mm with the ability to barlow instead of something smaller, based on the pinned eyepieces thread (http://stargazerslou...least-you-need/). Do the rules not necessarily apply to non-plossl's? I'm just concerned I'll hardly ever get the chance to use something like a 4/5mm

A Barlowed 8mm would be okay. If you wear glasses when at the scope, a short focal length (lower than 15mm) Plossl won't be suitable as the eye relief (the distance required for your eye to focus the image properly) will be too small, but, a Barlow does increase eye relief.

4/5mm in the Heritage will be used a lot as they give 162.5x and 130x respectively because the focal length of the Heritage is so small. It's only when you get into the bigger scopes when 4mm/5mm become pretty much unusable. For instance, in a Skywatcher 200P Dob, which is a very popular scope (8" F/6), a 4mm EP would give you 300x (pretty much only usable on the Moon and possibly double stars, and a 5mm would be 240x (usable on the best of nights and for double stars / Moon).

_{If any of that is confusing, I'm sure I or anyone else would be able to clarify .}

[bigrbuk]

A Barlowed 8mm would be okay. If you wear glasses when at the scope, a short focal length (lower than 15mm) Plossl won't be suitable as the eye relief (the distance required for your eye to focus the image properly) will be too small, but, a Barlow does increase eye relief.

No glasses, just big eyelashes the missus is jealous of

According to the specs, 260x is highest potential, so that would suggest a barlowed 5mm if my maths are right. However, I read that it's more to do with conditions, LP, the viewer themselves etc, so I don't know that 5mm would be such a good idea for the clearest view? Maybe 6 or 7 would more realistic (when barlowed)? BST's don't come in those sizes tho....

and round we go again

[Capricorn]

Forget 260x.

What is written on the box and the sale blurb is intented to part you from your cash.

A 4mm should be reasonable, depends on the eyepiece, 162x.

However after that I would expect a bigger but low quality image meaning you will see less.

A 3.2mm planetary is an option but I would not guarantee the result being good at 200x, maybe someone else here has tried the combination?

[bigrbuk]

ok, new plan.

9mm plossl to replace the standard 10mm that came with it.

6mm TMB or alternative

TAL 2x Barlow (if I can find one)

Keep the standard 25mm that came with.

That should give mags of...

26, 52, 72, 108, 144, 216

that looks like a suitable range?

[Naemeth]

Forget 260x.

What is written on the box and the sale blurb is intented to part you from your cash.

A 4mm should be reasonable, depends on the eyepiece, 162x.

However after that I would expect a bigger but low quality image meaning you will see less.

A 3.2mm planetary is an option but I would not guarantee the result being good at 200x, maybe someone else here has tried the combination?

I tried barlowing my 4mm (with a TAL Barlow, so the barlow isn't the issue) and it doesn't really give anymore detail of the Moon, and that was 325x, it just meant the Moon was far harder to keep aligned on one point, the details aren't as crisp at 325x (nor would I expect them to be on the average night). I do think that on the Moon at least, a 2.5mm EP has some merit in this and other short FL scopes, and 3.2mm does seem like it would work, although I'd advise to be careful on which object you choose.

All of this was just to see how much of a mess the image would be, but actually it was far better than expected.

I too have big eyelashes (wish I didn't), and actually found that I needed about 12mm-14mm of the "TMB Designed" eye relief (adjustable) just to get them off the lens at the front.

Oh, another recommendation, the TAL is brilliant if you can find one, and please try the standard 10mm barlowed, it's actually fairly good (considering it's an MA, but it's not as good as a Plossl) and the eye relief is actually improved by barlowing it, and it becomes more comfortable at 10mm barlowed than 10mm on it's own.

[bigrbuk]

Oh, another recommendation, the TAL is brilliant if you can find one, and please try the standard 10mm barlowed, it's actually fairly good (considering it's an MA, but it's not as good as a Plossl) and the eye relief is actually improved by barlowing it, and it becomes more comfortable at 10mm barlowed than 10mm on it's own.

I've ordered one - whether they actually had it in stock or not is another matter! The 9mm plossl will be the last purchase anyway, so I'll get to try the standard 10mm MA with a decent barlow before I but the plossl.

Thanks for all your help & advice folks.

[LukeSkywatcher]

I'll toss in my vote for the Vixen NPL's also. Great EP's and work brilliantly with the Heritage.

[paul schofield]

+ 1 for the BST's they are a great chunk of well made eyepiece for their cost. I have a Vixen NPL 15mm but to tell you the truth I never use it, this is mainly down to the eye relief, don't get me wrong it is a great ep for the money, but I find the BST more comfortable to use due to the adjustable eyecups. Good luck finding your Tal x 2.

[x6gas]

Isn't there is a retailer that allows you to 'try before you buy'? I'm sure I saw this on a website, but didn't end up doing it and now I can't remember who it was!

[LukeSkywatcher]

Isn't there is a retailer that allows you to 'try before you buy'? I'm sure I saw this on a website, but didn't end up doing it and now I can't remember who it was!

There is one or two but i think they only offer that to very good return customers. I do know of another one who say that if you are not happy with what you buy (if it doesnt work well for you), that you can return it and maybe try something different.

[barbusg60]

Im a beginner and listening to others on here, I have gone for the following (at the moment)

32mm GSO

15mm NPL

10mm NPL

8mm BST

Orion Shorty Plus Barlow - I did have a Tal but found the Orion slightly better. As the Orion is about 2.25x it gives me a nice spread of magnifications up to about 182x

Cheers,

Rob.

[bigrbuk]

TAL ordered and despatched from sherwoods today

Got a cheap second hand celestron plossl sorted and will get the BST or similar later.

Sky's the limit offer a try before you buy.

[kevrees]

Isn't there is a retailer that allows you to 'try before you buy'? I'm sure I saw this on a website, but didn't end up doing it and now I can't remember who it was!

I think Sky's the limit do a similar thing where they have some 'demo' eyepieces so if you are undecided on what to get, you can order several and then return the ones you dont want

[LukeSkywatcher]

Im a beginner and listening to others on here, I have gone for the following (at the moment)

32mm GSO

15mm NPL

10mm NPL

8mm BST

Orion Shorty Plus Barlow - I did have a Tal but found the Orion slightly better. As the Orion is about 2.25x it gives me a nice spread of magnifications up to about 182x

Cheers,

Rob.

Nice kit.