HEQ Pro 5, Hammer Time!

[alan potts]

Hi it's me I'm back, in the words of Frank Zappa.

Well I tried most of your ideas last night and I will give you a report.

Level of mount spot on!

Firstly I set up the polar alignment with the scope so it was well nearish. I then set up the finder and scope

Then I treid a 3 star alignment, it was so far out on the 1st star, it took me 2-3 minutes to find it (Altair), the finder has a 45 degree prism on it and I find it difficult to use. Then the mount found the other two stars Antares and Arcturus) without problem. The mount then told me it was poorly aligned. After it could n't find Saturn M57 or anything else for that matter.

I then reset the polar alignment as good as I have ever done it with all things in the correct place, didn't take long. I then did a two star set-up with the release clutch technique. Result, better but not good. Star and clusters were just in the FOV of a 34mm EP on a 805mm F/L scope. Rather bad if I may say so .

I did not try different power supply. The tank was fully charged and is not that old. At no point did it seem to want for power in the slew. After what I have told you above I was not best pleased so I called it a night, before the hammer really didn't put in an appearence.

I just think I have a Friday afternoon mount with lunch having been taken in the pub.

If anyone has any other ideas based on my tests I would be happy to try them.

Thanks for all you have come up with so far.

Alan.

[swag72]

Have you updated the firmware at all? I ask as when I used the handset, after the firmware update the goto's were significantly better. Regarding polar alugnment, is there any wayyou can use a computer programme to so it? I ask as I thought I had a good polar alignment, until I checked it on the PC and it was utter pants. There's a couple of programmes out there, such as alignmaster for starters.

I'm sure you've checked the normal culprits, such as DST and also putting the date in as US setting and not as we would normally do in the UK?

Don't despair, I know how you feel, my HEQ5 has been close to being ditched over the last couple of weeks, but persevere with it as it's well worth it.

[gary1968]

I would say it is probably a power issue. You say the power tank is ok as it is not tha told, maybe best to try another to eliminate it. Also, is the power cable good, I recently helped a mate out with similar issues and it turned out to be the power cable.

I have found in all cases of poor goto with celestron or skywatcher mounts it is always power related...... just my 2p worht mate.

Gary

[Ant]

I'm surprised that you haven't tried an alternative power supply and lead after everyone saying that the majority of all Skywatcher mount issues are power based.

Seriously , before the do something like drop kick the mount over next doors fence, use a different or mains supply and change the lead.

Also the date format is important (I forgot about that), as Sara said it's american format (MM.DD.YY).

Cheers

Ant

[steppenwolf]

Can you describe your 'start' position to us please as this is critical to the first star alignment.

[alan potts]

I was going to this last night but lost internet.

Everyone, this happened,

I leveled the mount, I set the polar alignment as good as I could. 1st star (Altair), exact smack in the middle. 2nd star ( Raselhague) sorry for the spelling, almost in the middle and last (Arcturus) again almost in the middle. Then I thought that is about it that'a fine The handset tells me I have successful alignment ( first time I have ever seen this on 3 stars) wrong after this I slewed to Antares, 4 degrees out, Saturn the same. Gave up watched the Olympics.

I was not able to try the power option as I can't find the connection lead but I do have a transformer. The one thing I did was charge the powertank but that seems to have made no difference

Alan.

[cotterless45]

You haven't mentioned park position. I think that this is quite critical. Otherwise the mount doesn't know where it is. Remember to park the scope (utlity) at the end of the session.

If I get that far out, then I select "utlity", park scope, then home position. Then I start again, just putiing the time in. This also has to be spot on. I use a wave checked clock and use the net to get the exact Latitude and Longitude. I do find 2 star alignment to be more accurate on my mount.

My power supply is a heavy duty leisure battery, as used to power caravans etc.

You can also use the Pae (Utility button -Pointing Accuracy Enhancement)system on the handset to train your mount into centering more accurately.

It also helps to start the aligment with a wide angle ep, then if you're happy that you've centred on a star, put in a 12mm, you might be in for a surprise.

All little errors will add up and compound, to throw you "mysteriously out".

This mount is a beauty, it just needs some training.

I hope that this will help,

Nick.

[steppenwolf]

PM sent in reply to PM received!

[alan potts]

Nick and everyone,

I never park the scope. With my Meade you don't have to and therefore the only problem I have seems to be a self inflicted one. No doubt brought on by a bad case of why do I need to read instructions .

I am reasonably confident that this is the problem.

A red faced Alan.

[Peter Drew]

Which "head" are you going to use the hammer on now Alan? Hope all goes well from now on.

[gary1968]

??, You dont have to park a Skywatcher mount, unless that is you will not be disassembling moving the scope and dont want to go through an alignment again. Parking the scope is really only for obsy mounted scopes.

The HEQ5 on power up assumes it is pointing north, that is how it manages, along with time & location data, to build a 'basic' sky model and slews to the first aligment star.

I never parked my HEQ5 or CG5GT and never had a problem.

I still believe it will be a power issue you are having.

Gary

[alan potts]

Gary,

I found that out after I blamed myself. There is a problem with this mount it is just a case of putting a finger on it.

One of the problems is everyone means well and chips in with his or her answer, I do it myself. Then I go away and try and perform 20 different fixes and then wonder why I don't get a result.

In truth this mount has never performed as well as they say it should, since I made it a goto. The problem is, it was over 1 year old when I went goto and had problems. Beforehand of course it was impossible to tell if it worked or not as all it did was slew and track, it will do this all day and night .

So those of you awaiting the hammer, it's still aimed at the mount, not my head. I had enough bangs on the head building my house.

Alan..

[Astro_Baby]

As it was not a GoTO mount and was upgraded its entirely possible the gear train isnt right. Mine was a non-GoTo that I upgraded and it had terrific issues with gear binding and stalling.

In the end I had to strip the mount down and rebuild it which was pretty scary stuff as there were no online guides at the time. Out of that strip down I produced the guide on my website. At the time there wasnt a single HEQ5 strip down guide.

After strip and rebuild and adjusting all of the tolerances the mount worked fine - and has done ever since. I wonder if its some sort of similar issue.

[gary1968]

Ah, it is a self modded goto upgrade..... sorry for insisting its probably a power issue as I was unaware that it was an upgraded mount. In this case I think I would be agreeing with AB, more than likely a drive train issue, which should be easily resolved. Having said that, it could still be a power issue......

Hope you get it sorted mate.

gary

[Freddie]

Does the red power light on the mount flash when slewing? If flashing, this indicates a power problem.

[malc-c]

Alan, here's my 2p worth (for what it's worth !)

• If I've followed your original post right you are using a power tank / battery to drive the tank. May I suggest that you try using a different source, either a fully charged car battery, or if the scope is to be use just in the garden, a regulated 13.8v supply capable of supplying 5 amps continuously.
  
• I've not tested my HEQ5 for current draw, but my EQ5 used to draw around 2 Amps when both motors are slewing the scope at 800x rate. The motors in the pro goto are bigger and I'm assuming given the payload capability of the mount draw more current, which could be as much as 3 Amps or more (I must test it to see just how much juice they do take !) This current draw could take the normal 12v down below the threshold at which the control board requires to function correctly if there is a problem with the original power pack. testing the voltage of the battery without any load on it may well give a reading of 12-13v - draw upwards of 3 or 4 amps and a duff battery can drop a couple of volts quite easily.
  
• Check the meshing of the gears... a close mesh will cause binding. Also check the worm adjustment as if this is too tight it will cause binding and put excessive loading on the drive train, which will cause the motors to work harder and thus draw more current.... adding to the points mentioned above. I converted my HEQ5 to belt drive, removing the problems of gear mesh and backlash (other than in the worm).
  
• As already mentioned, when using the handset it's assuming its staring off at the default home position of pointing North, weights pointing to the ground and scope parallel to the polar axis, with the mount as polar aligned as you can, Assuming you have entered the correct date format (US) and times in select the 2 star alignment process and choose a star. Let the scope slew to where it thinks it should be and when the slew is complete check its position. If its off (which it probably will be) release the clutches and move the scope manually until the star is in the centre of the field of view. Now confirm that the star is aligned and move on to the second star. This time use the direction buttons to correct any miss-alignment and then confirm its centred. This should be OK for general observations, and I find works well if you are concentrating in an area of the sky and choose stars not too far apart. If you chose stars that are at extremes to each other for 2 or 3 star alignment with a basic polar alignment often the error is too great for the mount to compensate and complete the procedure.
  

Hope this helps and you manage to resolve the issues. The HEQ5 is a fantastic mount... but it does take some TLC to get the best out of it.

[alan potts]

Malc-c

Well thought out and writen, I have sent PM.

I am beginning to think my power tank is no good. I have never really looked after it like people have said I should of. Most of the time is has just been collecting dust, it's only been used about 15 times in total, maybe not that. The quality of these Chinesse items is really not good, it's not the first battrey that I have had problems with.

I had the same problem with a Chinesse made Hitachi cordless drill, it cost a lot of money, over 250 pounds, pro model. I had a battrey pack up after only 41 charges. I put 5 bar gates on my drill battries. My Father in Law just removed the faulty cell and it's been fine ever since. He is a master at fixing things, they had to be here for years, there was no money to just buy another. The good thing is his electrical knowledge is second to none so he can open up the powertank and no doubt tell me what rubbish it is.

I will keep you all posted. Thank you one and all,

alan.

[alan potts]

We are in a spell of not so good weather at the moment so I can't make any more tests and checks on the HEQ 5. As soon as it clears up I will back out there.We needed the rain badly!

Alan.

[Tinker1947]

Its probably been typed but when you align with the wide EP (high MM) change to a high power EP to recenter, do this for each star makes for better alignment, of course you could take the other route and ditch GoTo and use a Telrad and the free Star Charts, i have taken this route and can generally drop on top of a DSO at the first attempt but certainly with in minutes....Good Luck....

[perfrej]

Just a quick one...

Do polar alignment, then unpark scope and SLEW to a star. Center it manually and mechanically, i.e. without using the handset. Park scope and you have the perfect home position!

This is assuming that you have date and time correct within less than a second. Position is not nearly as critical.

Then, unpark and do a three star align. Should be spot on.

/p

[alan potts]

Everyone,

Had the power pack checked out, nothing wrong with it, which is good. We cleaned all contact points with spirir and put it back together. Cleaned the lead to.

Last night: Did polar, spot on, first star about 10 degrees out, didn't look good. second star, spot on. worked like a dream after. Then I put the hammer away.

Now from this I draw, it was either, dirty contacts, which is possible, I am building things here. The other thing is it could be an intermitamt fault, I hope not.

So lets hope that puts that to bed. All who said it was a power problem well done, it looks as if you were correct.

Thank-you all,

Alan.

[Interested]

To add to /p's post above; the first star is normally way-off when I do a 3 Star alignment from parked. I always move the scope manually on the first star until I have it centred, I then press 'accept'. The next 2 Stars are normally close to 'spot on' and I generally get an 'alignment successful' message . I do park the scope at the end of a session, but then I am not sure if moving the mount to polar align mucks that up? Anyway, what I have said above works 99% of the time for me (and was a tip I read in the forum from when I first joined ).

[perfrej]

To add to /p's post above; the first star is normally way-off when I do a 3 Star alignment from parked. I always move the scope manually on the first star until I have it centred, I then press 'accept'. The next 2 Stars are normally close to 'spot on' and I generally get an 'alignment successful' message . I do park the scope at the end of a session, but then I am not sure if moving the mount to polar align mucks that up? Anyway, what I have said above works 99% of the time for me (and was a tip I read in the forum from when I first joined ).

The first star is off because your starting home position is not perfect, so we agree on that. Who can judge the start position by eye? No-one! So, use the first star to actually refine your home position by moving the scope with frictions loosened a bit until the star is centered. Then press accept as you now assume that the pointing model was off. I did this last night myself and I didn't even need to slew the second and tird stars! Just make sure your time is correct!

This is a very important tip to all users of NEQ6 (and 5)! Try it, you'll like it!

All the best,

Per

[steppenwolf]

This de-clutched manual movement is the system I always use with my NEQ6 and it makes all the difference as the system is fooled into believing that you started with a perfect 'Start' position and this is key to the GoTo success of this type of mount and that includes the EQ3, EQ5, HEQ5 and EQ6.

[gary1968]

I know loads of folk advise the loosening clutch method for 1sr star alignment, but, for what its worth, I never used that method, I always used the buttons..... Not saying any way is more right then the other but my method always worked for me..... Now I have my sysnscan dob I am learning all over again.....

Gaz