Finding Galaxies

[Javert]

I've been using my telescope for a couple of months now, so far only concentrating on the obvious targets of Jupiter, Saturn, Mars and the Orion Nebula.

The last couple of nights I thought I'd start having a look for some galaxies, such as M81/M82 and M51.

I know where they are (thanks to Stellarium and Turn Left at Orion) but just can't find them in either the finderscope or eyepiece (even using the widest one I have).

Is there any easy way of finding these or is it just down to experience? I was tempted by a GoTo mount and almost recently bought the upgrade for my EQ5, but I'm still glad I'm searching for things manually. I just wish I could find some of the things I'm looking for!

Should these galaxies I've mentioned be visible in a 9x50 finderscope?

[rory]

small movements when searching, make sure dark eye adapted, and dont expect anything big, just smudged stars. m81.82 are exellent first galaxies i.m.o quite bright,but can be a reasonably hard star hop. if the light pollution isnt good or seeing is poor,thats another problem to contend with.

[brantuk]

I've only ever seen M51 from Kelling which was pitch black and very clear. It was with a 200P on CG5GT goto mount - but it's very faint and couldn't be seen in the finder. Nonetheless I could make out two distinct galaxies but not the dust lane between them. Maybe you will score a hit in the right conditions

[Bart]

Yes, as Rory has said, you need dark skies. If you haven't spotted a galaxy yet. its possible you've had them in your FOV but havent realised it. Scan slowly and look for smear/smudges. M81/82 are fine galaxies, once you spot them, you'll always go back to them. You probably wont spot them in the finder. If you imaging the Ursa Major as a 'pot' lying flat with the handle going out to the west. Start at the bottom left star in the 'pot', make a diagonal to the top right star in the 'pot', and double that distance in the continued diagonal, and POP! there they are. Simples!

Good luck

Bart

[rory]

I've only ever seen M51 from Kelling which was pitch black and very clear. It was with a 200P on CG5GT goto mount - but it's very faint and couldn't be seen in the finder. Nonetheless I could make out two distinct galaxies but not the dust lane between them. Maybe you will score a hit in the right conditions

i thought it was just me ! ive been looking for this messier alot lately and not a sniff. if it took you a 8" and pitch black skies,then im wasting my time with 3.5" and town like skies

[Moonshane]

unfortunately you have started to look for galaxies in some really quite awful observing conditions. the last few days have seen apparently clear skies but a fine and quite thick haze has made all but the brightest stars invisible to the naked eye where I live. this means that even with my 16" dob, only the brightest galaxies are even visible let alone seen well. this seems to have cleared a lot today and will hopefully bode well for tonight. in the general area of M81 and M82 is Comet Garradd http://cometchasing.skyhound.com/comets/2009_P1.pdf this is worth looking for as it will soon start to fade. M81 and M82 area good place to start as they are high in the sky currently where the sky is darkest.

[smolloy]

In my opinion, a lot of it is down to experience. It took me *ages* to find any (with my 10" in not-so-dark skies), but once I did, I found I was able to locate so many more.

M81/82 are good choices to begin with since they're relatively bright, but don't expect to see them in the finder-scope. The first time I found them, I star hopped to the right place using just my 10x50 binos. This allowed me to learn the stars in region, so it was really easy to star hop using the finderscope. After that I switched to my widest FOV EP (25 mm), and began trying to correlate the brightest stars in the FOV with those in Stellarium. A few minutes later, I had a definite galaxy in the FOV, and began moving to narrower angle EPs

Now that I've done that, I've found that it's actually not so hard to find others, and I actually managed to find 25 in two nights a week or so ago!

I think there were two problems I overcame the first time:

1/ Figuring out how to properly star hop with a combination of binos, finder-scope, and the wide FOV EP.

2/ Learning what to expect to see. Some of these are super-faint, barely visible, smudges, that can only be seen with averted vision & when the scope is vibrating a little. Others are clear with direct vision, but you will only ever see faint smudges. Forget the photos you've seen online -- observational astronomy will only let you see these as faint-fuzzies. Kinda like the mark left behind if you gently rub a chalky finger on a black-board.

Good luck! Let us know how you get on!

[Moonshane]

some great points there. I often rock my scope gently back and forth when in the area to create averted vision.

[swamp thing]

I've only ever seen M51 from Kelling which was pitch black and very clear. It was with a 200P on CG5GT goto mount - but it's very faint and couldn't be seen in the finder. Nonetheless I could make out two distinct galaxies but not the dust lane between them. Maybe you will score a hit in the right conditions

Strange, ive seen it very easily in my finder. M51 shows up very nicely in bins too. It's easier through my 15x70 bins than my 10" Dob from skies with any LP.

Regards Steve

[rory]

Strange, ive seen it very easily in my finder. M51 shows up very nicely in bins too. It's easier through my 15x70 bins than my 10" Dob from skies with any LP.

Regards Steve

what an interesting difference , wonder why that is ? unless brantuk got his m number messed up while typing ?

[Tinker1947]

With my dark sky's and scope, EP's the best i have done is NGC 1055, a 10.6 mag, M51 on good seeing just shows the spiral arms and bad seeing the 8.5mm Pentax shows them something like cats eyes, i googled a Messier list by Magnitude, people might be able to gauge what they have seen and can expect to see.....

Messier Objects by Apparent Visual Magnitude

[danielbb]

As an example

In central redditch with a population of 80,000. I could only just make out both those galaxies on my 200p. Very dim, unless i knew something was there i wouldn't have seen them. The scope looked badly collimated though, which didnt help. I only had it one day, had to be returned, so it wasnt setup up at all properly.

[Demo johnny]

try this guide

The Messier Marathon Planner by Larry McNish

[LukeSkywatcher]

When i am hunting galaxies i use my widest EP. Also instead of looking directly at the centre of FOV, i use averted vision (looking either side of centre).

[Stu]

I find M51 much harder with any lp than M81/82. I've managed the latter with a 66mm refractor under reasonable skies but doubt M51 would be the same.

As I've posted elsewhere, I got them all quite nicely using a 106mm apo on dartmoor over the weekend even though the transparency wasn't great. I could see the core of both elements of M51 nicely and with averted vision could pick up some of the detail surrounding them and hints of the bridge between them.

I use a different star hop which I think allows you to track down the position of M81/M82 more accurately, again posted elsewhere.

Stu

[LukeSkywatcher]

I've seen M64 (The Black Eye Galaxy) with 130mm scope. Small, but you could see the dust lane that gives it the look of a "black eye". Most impressive. Also the triple in Leo is another great target.

Once you have spotted one galaxy and know what to expect, it does become easier to spot more. Soon enough they will be popping up all over the place.

[brantuk]

@ Rory and Steve - Nope I didn't mistype the Messier number lol.

I definitely need a dark site and dead clear night to see M51 though I can pick out M81/M82 relatively easily from a slightly light polluted site. But it's probably more to do with my eyes that aren't as young as they were, that I still find so M51 ellusive

[Bart]

Once you have spotted one galaxy and know what to expect, it does become easier to spot more. Soon enough they will be popping up all over the place.

This is true. Oncew you know what to expect, it becomes easier. At zenith, I have reasonably dark skies, NELM 5.7, and in my 10", I can see M51 as two spots, VAGUELY connected through the spiral arm. I do mean vaguely. Frankly, I'm dissapointed. Nevertheless, it is satisfying finding the galaxies, faint as they are.

There ae some nice ones. M81, 82, 104 (sombrero), 2903 (like this one), Leo triplet, there are some others, can't remember now though

[kuro]

I saw M51 last night through an st102. It was very feint but using averted vision i could just make out the cores.

I will say though that without my autostar I doubt i would have found it with the scope i use and i suspect that anything beyond this magnitude is pushing its limits.

[rory]

well b****r me, i only bagged m51 this very evening ! okay was 2 faint small cloud like blips, but hey.

[Moonshane]

I just had a much better session with my 16" dob, seeing a number of galaxies (incl. 8 new Messier objects) around leo, virgo and Uma etc, saw Comet Garradd again with tails, and the SN in M95.

one of these was M51 and even in a poor area for light pollution (I live near Stockport and Manchester) I managed for the first time to see spiral arms fainly and the bridge between the galaxies. had my neighbours not been constantly turning lights on and off I'd have seen more. not like at a dark site but very satisfying.

dark sites and aperture rule for faint targets.

[rwilkey]

I have seen M81/M82 easily with my 200P from my back garden in Swindon, great objects once you find them, always use averted vision to start with.

[Tinker1947]

Last nights "seeing" has to be the best this week if not this year, managed the Leo Messiers and a couple in Virgo...very nice evening....

[jflowers]

Not so good last night for me...

What the...

Hopefully better tonight, forcast is clear here until Thursday

[Double Kick Drum]

Strange, ive seen it very easily in my finder. M51 shows up very nicely in bins too. It's easier through my 15x70 bins than my 10" Dob from skies with any LP.

Regards Steve

I agree with Swamp Thing here. M51 will tolerate some light pollution. I have found it and its companion in a sky with a VLM of mag. 5 quite easily with a five inch scope..

I think practice and patience are important here. Once you bag your first few DSOs, star hopping becomes easier. Good maps help, of course!