Disappointed with DSO views? I have the answer!

[cgarry]

Yes there certainly is, but I cant advise much on this as I'm still learning it myself. I'm looking into DSS, deep space stacker software to do this. May I suggest the Imaging part of the forum for more info?

Barry

Thanks Barry. I was holding out for our own dedicated Video Astronomy forum before asking questions...

Chris

[spaceboy]

Hi space boy,

you will need:- camera, 12V dc, C mount adapter, video/AV lead.

If you just want to view you need a TV with video/AV in, or, a laptop/PC with a video capture interface.

If you want to go on and record the images you need capture software, like AMcap or(what I use) Sharpcap, these are free,there are others.

Once you have images on your PC/laptop you can then go on to post processing software like DSS, Registax, these are free.

The further you go, the more IT skills you need.

The processing of images is an art in its self, I dont profess any skill there, I do hardware!

Thank you again Barry

[Bulkins]

Thanks for the reply Bazaar, and for the excellent links Garethmob.

[lw24]

I'm not too sure about this. I think it could take away the main essence of observing (in my opinion). In my view, part of the excitement is getting the chance to observe the night sky on a great night where it's extremely dark and completely clear, and getting the chance to see all your favourite night time objects clearer and 'better' than you've ever seen them before. Nights like these are things we all crave, and when one comes along, it makes astronomy special. Having a camera to pick out all the detail and display it on a screen just seems unatural to me. It would feel as if I'd lost connection with my astronomical instrument.

Just my view.

[MLyons]

Is there anyone who has actually gone down this route who could advise on specific components that are known to work?

PS Excellent thread.

I use Windows 7 64 bit and find that the Chronos USB Movie Grabber works best for me.

Although most computer shops should have something similar, I got my Chronos from a local computer outlet.

If I can find one in Africa, then surely it should be freely available in the first world.......

Look here to see the item so you will recognise it in a shop near you: www.chronos.com.tw

Hope this helps

Martin

[Mutley]

I did try some shots without tracking, not good:(

anything over 1/2 second showed trails. I only tried the brighter objects, and it did still give an image, debatable whether an improvement over the old eyeballs.

I should think that tracking Dobs would be ok.

Thanks Barry for doing that test - cleared things up a bit and maybe saved a few people a few quid.

Great pics as well. I can just make out 'the propeller' in your M13.

[Macavity]

I have a Watec 120N that I bought second hand and have only ever used it once for 20 minutes. One thing I noticed was that with the hardware integration at maximum and the gain turned right up there were lots of hot pixels and they actually looked a bit like a star field. This was using a little CRT monitor rather than capturing the image on a laptop.

If I captured the video on a laptop, is there a way to remove these hot pixels using a stored dark frame while watching the video in real time?

Cheers,

Chris

I think the idea is NOT to operate the Watec at maximum gain. <G> Perhaps the fact that hot pixels and noise eventually emerge suggests plenty of gain in reserve?

With gain at "medium" (75% maybe?) and 5(?) sec integration, I can display real time images with only a handful of hot pixels, and mag 15 stars significantly brighter? That with a Mak127 at non-ideal F12. Can't THINK of a way of real-time "dark subtraction" tho'.

However, at modest gains, a single frame of M57 (with central star) looks like THIS and offline (registax) stacking of 100 frames looks like THIS. The hot pixels are then manifest as the faint STREAKS due to the Alt-Az (Synscan) drive wandering about, over the 20 minutes or so.

I hope to get down closer to the local background sky (mag 18?) with my (yet untried!) TS 200mm / F4 Newt. I hope the HEQ5 should(?) allow some sort of PROPER subtraction of "darks", "flats" etc.

[West End Wendy]

I've had the Watec about 6 months.

It's been a brilliant purchase but I came to the conclusion fairly early on that having to boot up a computer to use it was detracting from my enjoyment of the night sky. So I bought an LCD display from here:-

http://www.esaw.co.uk/

I keep a BNC cable around the spindle of my mount and just plug in and turn it on. Of course you can't image like this, but imaging is not a vidcam's strong suit anyway (although the results can have a certain charm).

I'm sure most video astronomers would be happy to admit they would prefer to see a DSO through an eyepiece - but how big a telescope and how dark a sky do you need to see well-defined spiral arms on galaxies? The Watec's given me some genuine "wow" moments I couldn't realistically have got any other way.

Tim

[Bulkins]

Think I've figured this out now - apart from a question about the IR filter. One of the Cloudy Nights tutorials on how to remove the IR filter (from the SCB-4000 model) recommends using a high-quality IR / UV filter if using a refractor. I am assuming that this means as well as the nosepiece mentioned in post #14 of this thread the following UV/IR filter would work in the 1.25" size and would screw into the nosepiece.

First Light Optics - Baader UV/IR Cut Filter

Have I followed the logic correctly and does anyone have any views on this?

If correct then the shopping list (with approximate costs, to the nearest pound) for viewing on an existing laptop looks like:

C mount adapter (nosepiece mentioned above) £13

BCN - RCA adapter £5

Video Grabber (e.g. EZCap) £20

Camera (SDC-435) £90

UV / IR blocking filter £40

Total £168

I have a decent leisure battery so only need to sort out power for the laptop and camera!

Have I missed anything?

Thanks in anticipation.

[Bazzaar]

The use of a 1 1/4" filter instead of the built in one is an improvement, not essential. Just making sure you realise this.

Yes it would fit into the nose piece. You have the option of getting the filter later if you want.

Barry

[KE400]

Fantastic thread guys and got me very interested.

I've just noticed that my laptop has an HDMI port so I could simply attach via HDMI cable the laptop and use any LCD tv/ monitor as my laptops screen as it where. Resulting in hopefully being able to both view and image on whatever LCD attached.

Being able to view DSO's in greater detail from my own back yard would be very appealing. This certainly has its plus points me thinks!

[DoctorD]

Hi Bulkins

Just a small point - the camera price is £89 ex-VAT - £106 Inc VAT.

As has been mentioned before this is the mains powered version - not a problem, but you might want to consider the 12v version for ease of use away from mains. Also there is a mod you can do to make a remote keyboard which will allow you to adjust the camera settings without disturbing the scope (and potentially from the comfort of your arm chair).

I'd not be happy doing this with 230Vac inside the camera.

Hope this helps

Paul

[sgazer]

This is a great idea. It's pretty much what I used shortly after getting into astronomy. I wasn't satisfied with what I was seeing observing and ended up getting a Mintron 12V6 (similar to the Samsung). It's pretty good seeing nebulas and stuff live on a TV screen and great for kids. With its small sensor, you only need a short focal length scope too, like an ST-80 is f/5 400mm. Meaning you only need a small mount too. And as the camera only integrates over 2sec or so, an ALT/AZ (maybe goto) is all that's needed. I use mine now for auto guiding, so there's an upgrade path there too, using a USB video capture device into the laptop. Never fails to find a guide star.

[minte222]

great idea i think i will give this a go for the sake of £100.

[Bulkins]

The use of a 1 1/4" filter instead of the built in one is an improvement, not essential. Just making sure you realise this.

Yes it would fit into the nose piece. You have the option of getting the filter later if you want.

Barry

Thanks Barry. Yes I appreciated that strictly speaking it was optional but some posts on CN suggest it would very worthwhile.

Hi Bulkins

Just a small point - the camera price is £89 ex-VAT - £106 Inc VAT.

As has been mentioned before this is the mains powered version - not a problem, but you might want to consider the 12v version for ease of use away from mains.

Thanks for the clarification Paul. The slightly increased cost of the SDC-435 improves the relative attractiveness of the SCB-4000 (at £220 inc VAT) - especially since it has the 1/2" inch chip as opposed to the 1/3" chip.

I had also thought about getting the 12v model but I need to figure out how to power the laptop and camera from the same leisure battery - but that's for another thread.

[DoctorD]

I wonder if this thread would have got so much attention if it had been started in the Imaging Forum?

The attraction of video assisted astronomy is that it's easy to start with limited equipment - a driven mount of some kind for basic tracking, fast-ish scope (mind you I'm using a F12 102mm Mak with 0.5 focal reducer and getting results!) you can even use camera lenses for real wide field.

Images are never going to match those produced by a DSLR however the results are instant and you can stack latter if you want to improve the image.

There was a thread in the imaging forum pushing for a dedicated Video Forum but this was rejected on the basis that it's still imaging. Problem is there is still little awareness of what can be achieved with relatively cheap video cameras despite a number if threads on this and other forums.

This thread has really brought this fascinating aspect of astronomy to a wider audience.

I'll not give up visual, however when the sky's yellow and there's no planets or the moon to look at why waste an otherwise perfect chance to view the heavens?

My observing opportunities are limited by work and family commitments as well as the weather - I say get the scope out when ever the opportunity arises!

Clear (and hopefully not too yellow) skies

Paul

[Macavity]

I wonder if this thread would have got so much attention if it had been started in the Imaging Forum?

Heheh - "No Comment". But the (amazing) interest was clearly there. Maybe now the question is, how to maintain impetus and communication. If nothing else, a "social group" maybe? But I usually forget to go anywhere else but the default forums - That via "new posts" mostly, as well...

[Bulkins]

Heheh - "No Comment". But the (amazing) interest was clearly there. Maybe now the question is, how to maintain impetus and communication. If nothing else, a "social group" maybe? But I usually forget to go anywhere else but the default forums - That via "new posts" mostly, as well...

Isn't it possible to create sub-groups, so there could be a 'Video Astronomy' sub-group within the imaging group?

Edit - ignore this. I hadn't spotted that there are already quite a few imaging sub-groups, or the earlier posts in this thread.

[MLyons]

Well, I kinda tried suggesting something but, because of ignorance, it didn't get very far.

Hopefully we are slowly educating the powers that be and the imaging purists will relax and not feel so threatened.

[R2-ditt0]

can't stop keeping tabs on this thread......I for one would love to see a seperate section for VI/VO...I don't post that often but am reading posts every night(I should log on but keep forgetting)...I know the purists may feel that observing in this way is cheating but if this gets me using my scope more often than I do then this is the way I will go....it would be nice to be able to learn from and share experiences with like minded people.....so come on moderators give it a sub section....I promise to log on and post more often !

[AztecastroMcJ]

i was interested in similar cameras last year, but couldn't decide which one to go for,

i kept link for site i found, and they have loads of usefull accessories at decent prices

http://www.rfconcepts.co.uk/cctv-camera.htm#C%20/%20CS%20Mount%20lenses

basic cameras start at £59+ Vat = £70

seem to be same as Samsung although not sure

thx for posting

James

[nightvision]

i was interested in similar cameras last year, but couldn't decide which one to go for,

i kept link for site i found, and they have loads of usefull accessories at decent prices

http://www.rfconcepts.co.uk/cctv-camera.htm#C%20/%20CS%20Mount%20lenses

basic cameras start at £59+ Vat = £70

seem to be same as Samsung although not sure

thx for posting

James

Good fnd with great prices, just need some stock.

[MLyons]

Don't make the mistake of assuming that any of the other cameras come anywhere close to the Samsungs.

Just because they all have the Sony HAD sensor, they all are listed as being super sensitive day/night cameras etc, they don't quite perform the same.

You will be dissapointed and then lose interest very quickly.

I know of two people who bought "alternatives" and were very dissapointed in their performance.

A vital function for DSO is the "sense -up" function which not all cameras have and also, some that have the facility don't go to 512x but stay in the 128x realm.

Spend the extra few bob and get the Samsung, otherwise you WILL be kicking yourself.

[hemihaggis]

hi guys i also have a scb 2001 , i have not used it yet , and i moving house in aug , which scope have you the scb attatched to , and how did you connect it ? cheers

[garethmob]

i think the connection would be a cthread - 1.25" nosepeice (as u take the lens off the camera) FLO sell one,