First Light - SkyWatcher Explorer 250PDS and NEQ6 Pro

[Paul M]

So I bit the bullet and got me a nice new 10" Newtonian on a sturdy mount.

Having read the pro's and cons of the larger Newtonians right here on SGL (what a resource!) I decided against the 300PDS on joint access and handling grounds.

I wanted goto simply for the sake of gadgetry Actually it was control via a computer that I was particularly interested in. I've played with various planetarium packages since home computers were invented and it seems a natural progression!

To help me with my choice I went along to Opticstar in Sale, Greater Manchester. It was the closest I've been to any of the modern generation of scopes and mounts. Very impressive they are to.

I'd already half decided on the NEQ6 Pro mount and on seeing it in the flesh made the final decision. There was a S/W 200PDS Newtonian on display which really wasn't a big step up from my exiting 6" scope. So although it wasn't on display I decided on the 250PDS.

I placed the order including a 40mm eyepiece, extra counterweight for the mount, EQDIR lead, laser collimator and 17Ah Powertank and the Skywatcher GPS mouse. 

Today was a lovely day so I set about having a dry run.

I have a very good idea where Polaris is even in the daylight sky so set the mount up in that general direction.

It didn't take long to see just exactly what the problem is with the altitude bolts. Very nasty bit of kit! The bolt that pushes the head to a lower altitude is under awful stress. Don't worry I didn't break or bend it but it does seen to be a poor design feature. It just has poor purchase on the cam it pushes on. I'll be looking to retrofit some better bolts but it really is a design fault that they need to be so sturdy in my opinion.

Before I weighted the mount or fitted the scope I had a good play with the Synscan handset.

It came with V3,28 of the firmware installed.

The GPS mouse plugs into the handset and does away with much of the set up procedure. It didn't have any instructions with it. I had to download them from the S/W website. The first thing I learn from that is that it requires V3.32 or later to work!

It transpires that none of the millions of computers in our house has a serial port. A serial port is required to flash the firmware

I parked the upgrade and continued playing

I plugged in the GPS mouse anyway just to see what it would do and connected the handset and power lead to the mount. I entered the Lat/Long and time as requested and looked through the menus. Under one menu was a GPS function and on pressing it downloaded full time and location info!. So it does work with V3.28 but you have to work through a few key presses to get there.

That didn't stop me trundling down the prom on a busy Friday lunchtime to Maplin at Blackpool for a USB to Serial adapter. I didn't mind paying the shocking £14 price tag. That's the price of having it on the shelf!

Soon enough I had newest version of Synscan installed and now on powering up it automatically detects the GPS mouse and only asks if Daylight saving applies and what your time zone offset is ("yes" and "00:00" for me).

Time to play with EQmod/Stellarium-scope/Ascom and all that palaver! And what a palaver it was! Anyway, long story short. It's now running via Stellarium but I've had to give my brain a rest so haven't even thought about alignment with it yet! Back to the hand set it is then

Why I'm worried about all that stuff before I've even looked through the scope I'll never know.

But anyway the sky was reasonably clear all afternoon with the promise of some stars later on so I decide to mount the scope and have a play.

Firstly, I have to say that I'm not a fan of them there dovetail bar things. Not something I'd have invented for larger OTA's. Ok, it's a biggish scope and probably not the best dovetail kit in the world but still, I don't like it!!

Once seated it all seems rigid enough but if there had been an option to have a different mounting system I'd have gone for that.

It needs the two counterweights supplied as std with the mount plus the extra one I bought to balance the scope. 

It's now time to actually take the end cap off and look into the thing.

Quick rack of the eye look down the focuser tube shows that collimation isn't spot on and could be better. I tweaked it by eye first then put the laser collimator for a final check. Quite good but the secondary is just a fraction to far forward. I'll have another tweak another day.

Still way too light to polar align but too dark to sit outside playing. So I watched some stuff on youtube on setting up the reticle in the polar scope. I don't need to worry about all that just for a quick practice at 3 star alignment so relaxed until dark.

Still a bit of high cloud to the south but quite clear to the north. My guess at Polaris's position was ridiculously close! Would you believe that Polaris was actually in the field of view! I rotated the RA axis so that the relative positions of Cassiopeia and The Plough  were about right in the polar scope and tweaked the azimuth and altitude bolts to set Polaris about right. I'll refine that with the correct Hour Angle for future use if required.

I selected Vega as my first star in the 3 star alignment process. I used the 28mm 2" eyepiece that was supplied with the scope giving about 40x magnification. I centered Vega and then selected Alkaid. Surprisingly (to me) it was in the field of view and just needed a tweak on the handset to center it. 3rd was Altair and, again, after the slew it was well in the field of view.

Synscan confirmed successful alignment and I was free to goto !

There was quite a bit of high cloud almost everywhere by now so my options were limited. All I wanted to do was get familiar with the handset so wasn't too worried.

I opted to goto M57 and entered it in the handset. I don't find the stepper motors to be too noisy. I almost like the sound. I just hope John Culshaw doesn't start doing impressions of EQ6 stepper motors that would ruin it form me

Anyway, the handset peeped and I took a peek through the eyepiece to find a lovely pale greenish Ring Nebula well inside the the field of view! Even at 40x in lousy light pollution and cloud it looked wonderful.

I decided to get out my old plossl's that came with Ye Olde Fullerscope 30 years ago. There is a 12 and a 6 and a 2x Barlow.

Looking with the 12mm brought out more detail and still gave a nice image. The 6mm (200x!) was just too much in that sky but I had to have a go.

Next mission was to boldly go to M13. Another stonking good goto. And another pleasant result considering the state of the sky. The 12mm (100x) gave a nice view. The dual speed focuser really comes into it's own on something like this that needs accurate focusing. Just a tweek either side of focus sees all those little pinpoints disappear into  a fuzz.

My next target was M82. It landed square in the eyepiece but was disappointing in the sky glow. Seen it much better in my 6" under a clear sky. Thinking about now though, maybe the goto was off and I'd landed on a less prominent neighbour?

Back across the sky to M92. To be honest it isn't something I've viewed before and I wasn't even sure what type of object it was. After another bang-on slew I had an eyepiece full of Globular Cluster

It seemed to resolve more easily than M13. I suspect the sky was a bit clearer than it had been for M13. I stood up to magnification well. It's something I'll be returning to on a clearer noght for sure.

Another first for me was M27. I know it well from seeing images of it but with the sky glow in that direction it wasn't at it's best. 

The sky was pretty dreadful by 11pm. I was lucky to be seeing anything through it. I had one last target before calling it a day. An old favorite of mine, Alberio. It was dazzling after looking at all those fuzzies! The colours are spectacular too.

So that was it. First light.

I'm very pleased with it's performance and my own performance. Having spent almost the full day playing and learning the result was very rewarding indeed. I don't think I'll regret going for something so big. I even managed to rotate the tube to improve the position of the eyepiece without disturbing the alignment. I know I won't always get away with it but that's life!

One minor gripe is that the importers send the Synscan handsets out without updating the firmware to the newest version.

The build quality of the powertank is average at best but it did the job well enough.

My next challenge is to get to grips with the alignment procedure with EQMOD/Stellarium. I can work on that on a rainy day in the kitchen.

I think with a scope/mount like this there is always something to be doing on a rainy day...Belt mod anyone?

In the meantime I have a great new scope which works very well.

I'm sure I'll have more to say in the coming weeks and months.

[baggywrinkle]

Nice review. Once I am settled back in the UK I am putting my 6SE up for sale and looking for a newtonian of a decent apeture. So reviews like this are always read.

I have the SW EQ5 mount and I agree with you on those bolts, and I agree in spades on the RS232 comment.

We have had USB's around for how many years? PC's rarely fit an RS232 these days, so why do they not bite the bullet and go for USB on mounts and handsets?

Maybe some one on the site can comment on that.

[sxinias]

Congratulations on your new telescope and first light report.  It's one of the best reports I've read.  Enjoy your new baby.

[nightfisher]

congrats, it should serve you well for many years. The pds range are lovely newts,i i have the 150, wanted the 200 but i got mine mainly to use on AZ4 mount

[nytecam]

Clearly you're enjoying your new scope and first light - well done. You may like to extend the review on a super clear night to do it justice :-)

[Ouroboros]

Nice review. I also agree on the RS232 comments. It's only because I have an ageing steam computer that I was able to flash the firmware via serial port.

A question on that .... Does a USB to serial converter work seamlessly in the download process or does the download software need to be told somehow?

I ask because the old steam computer will probably be replaced with a PC sans serial port.

[Zuben Elgenubi]

Very interesting and comprehensive first light report, thanks for posting.

Enjoy your new toy 

[chrisshillito]

Does a USB to serial converter work seamlessly in the download process or does the download software need to be told somehow?

It is seamless. Software itself doesn't know or care about the physical hardware being used. It just opens a COM port for serial comms. Device drivers, be they for true RS232 ports or USB convertors, map the COM port opeations to the physical hardware. So using when using a USB convertor the software sees a COM port exactly the same as if it were using an on board RS232 port. One thing to watch out for however is that some USB convertors can provide hardware flow control (i.e. RTS, CTS) other (cheaper) don't.

Chris.

[Paul M]

A question on that .... Does a USB to serial converter work seamlessly in the download process or does the download software need to be told somehow?

Yes, it did or me anyway. Just plug it in and windows found the driver (even though there was one supplied on disk) and using the Skywatcher update utility I did it first go .

The serial interface isn't so much frustrating as unbelievable in this day and age!

[Tinker1947]

very good first light report, my setup is the same at tne momnet, going to  change on Monday to a C11 XLT (need the shorter tube length) so the 250PDS will be in the sales section, amyway back to yours, i found a plastic 1 metre mearsuring stick cut down a bit and a large jubilee clip put around the top tube ring allows for the tube to be spun with out losing its position in the ring like they would tend to slide down, I replaced the allen screws with knurl head screws makes for Secorday adjustment so much easier no fear of dropping the Allen key down the tube, also a Telrad with 2 bases there placed either side of the focuser this isn't required with GoTo but when you have seen most things using the GoTo finding DSO's manually made me feel good, and i upgrading the focuser to a Moonlight CR2  there really smooth and have a good feel to them. The 40mm EP you might find a bit to wide i have a 36mm Hyperion and its very good right up to the edge where stars get elongated but this doesn't affect the view only if you make a point of look at the edge, i believe up to around 30mm is the limit so there's no edge distortion,, Esmod i just got working, using CDC it just worked, running on a Win 7 pc 32 Bit,  i like Stellaruim so when some nice guy puts up a this how its done or may you will when you get yours working i will swap over, couple of piccies to show the secondary and the tube mode.......

Knurled Screws from here Stainless Steel.....http://www.a2a4.com/

Sourced the clips from E-Bay

[SnakeyJ]

Great review and nice to see something even if not pergect for first light.

I've relegated the synscan handset and now use cdc & eqmod plus AT when trying to find the really faint stuff. EQmod supports gps, though not sure it will support the SW GPS puck.

Really like Tinkers rotator solution - cheaper, less weight and faff than the extra tube ring mod.

Re the dovetail, an extra bar on top makes things a lot stiffer, though a losmandy bar would be a good upgrade for imaging with this size ota.

Look forward to hearing about 2nd light impressions.

[Paul M]

I've relegated the synscan handset and now use cdc & eqmod plus AT when trying to find the really faint stuff. EQmod supports gps, though not sure it will support the SW GPS puck.

I did see the GPS button on EQmod. Unfortunately the cable that came with the SW GPS mouse doesn't allow connection to a PC. I'm sure the I read somewhere that a USB adapter is available. Maybe I'm wrong.

Maybe that's another dongle/gadget I'll be buying

I was actually quite impressed with the performance of the handset. It was intuitive and bounces well !!

[Paul M]

Thanks for the feedback guys.

More food for thought!

I won't be doing much today even though it's blue sky here.

We have to go to a Silver Wedding party and I've been roped in to help. No surprise there though. It is our party!!

It's also my birthday tomorrow.

First present already arrived from my son (he don't do wrapping!). Some book called "Making Every Photon Count". 

Can't think why he got me that 

Apparently my present from the MD is still in the US of A. I wonder if I have to go and get it?

[Ouroboros]

It is seamless. Software itself doesn't know or care about the physical hardware being used. It just opens a COM port for serial comms. Device drivers, be they for true RS232 ports or USB convertors, map the COM port opeations to the physical hardware. So using when using a USB convertor the software sees a COM port exactly the same as if it were using an on board RS232 port. One thing to watch out for however is that some USB convertors can provide hardware flow control (i.e. RTS, CTS) other (cheaper) don't.

Chris.

Thanks for that info. I understood all this except the last sentence, but guess your recommendation is not to stint by buying a cheapo one.

By the way, would this be the same USB converter that would allow one to control a mount from a PC running Stellarium or similar?

[Paul M]

Thanks for that info. I understood all this except the last sentence, but guess your recommendation is not to stint by buying a cheapo one.

By the way, would this be the same USB converter that would allow one to control a mount from a PC running Stellarium or similar?

That's an interesting question because if they are I didn't need the Maplin USB><Serial lead. I already bought the EQMOD lead for a princely sum along with the scope.

I don't think they are. There are various warnings about using the correct leads for the right job on these mounts.

Mistakes are expensive

Someone who actually knows what they are talking about will fill us in hopefully!

[Tinker1947]

I brought a EqDIR from FLO it plugs in the mount where the hand controller normally goes with a usb connector the other end,so to control the scope i needed to use the mouse on the CDC screen then click "Slew" it does mean a bit of to and fro from the EP to the mouse when setting up but i will be buying a Microsoft wireless game controller on Tuesday so looking through the EP and flicking the joystick will make it a joy to use.........

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/astronomy-cables-leads-accessories/hitecastro-eqdir-adapter.html

[Paul M]

I brought a EqDIR from FLO it plugs in the mount where the hand controller normally goes with a usb connector the other end,so to control the scope i needed to use the mouse on the CDC screen then click "Slew" it does mean a bit of to and fro from the EP to the mouse when setting up but i will be buying a Microsoft wireless game controller on Tuesday so looking through the EP and flicking the joystick will make it a joy to use.........

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/astronomy-cables-leads-accessories/hitecastro-eqdir-adapter.html

Sounds like the same sort of thing I got though mine was a "shoestring" brand or something. The game pad does look fun. I reckon my lad will have an old one knocking about somewhere

[chrisshillito]

Thanks for that info. I understood all this except the last sentence, but guess your recommendation is not to stint by buying a cheapo one.

By the way, would this be the same USB converter that would allow one to control a mount from a PC running Stellarium or similar?

The interace to the mount may look like a standard 9 way RS232 connector, but it is actually a proprietary interface that requires a dedicated interface cable. Don't ever plug a standard RS232/usb adapter into the mount - something is likely to get damaged!

Instructions on how to make the mount interface (EQDIRECT) can be found on the EQMOD Project website - there are also several vendors offering ready made cables/interfaces.

My comment about not all adapters supporting RTS/CTS is only relavent if your particular appliction uses those control lines. The interface to the synscan handcontroller for example doesn't, some long exposure modified webcam's do. So if you want a good general purpose USB-RS232 cable that you can use for a range of different purposes then one with RTS/CTS support is a good option. If however you have a specific purpose in mind and you know that hardware flow control is not required (kind of went out with modems!) then cheaper device will do just fine.

Chris.

[Paul M]

Due to having a hectic weekend I didn't expect to get another session with my new toy.

I was a bit weary on Sunday morning after the excesses of our Silver Wedding celebrations on Saturday night. Then it was my birthday on Sunday with people over for tea (round these parts "tea" is the evening meal!).

All day the sky had been clearing and by sunset it was very clear. So once our company had gone I set up the scope.

Once I was actually out under the stars the sky didn't seem that good. No clouds but the light pollution from Blackpool and it's Illuminations was dreadful.

It didn't take too long to set up. Polar alignment with the polar scope is very straight forward, although I've not yet checked or adjusted the reticle.

I really don't like the dovetail bar fixing. I can see me doing some engineering in that department eventually. Not entirely sure what the options are though.

3 star alignment is quick and easy and within minutes I'm back studying M13. Conditions were much better than on Friday night and it stood up to magnification much better. Using my old Fullerscope's supplied 6mm plossl I was getting about 200x which just about filled the whole field. Taking time to get a good focus makes all the difference. I can really get lost in these Globulars!

M31 was just rising over the roof ridge so I swung over that way. Sadly due to the light pollution the view wasn't best. M32 and M110 were plainly visible but the main attraction was pretty much washed out

A quick check with Stellarium showed that Neptune should be clear of the neighbours house so there was an opportunity for a planetary first for me. The Light Pollution was worst in that direction with no chance of star hopping so my new friend Mr. Goto did the honours

And there it was. Even at 40x it was plainly not a star. At 100x the disc was distinctly planetary. I'd describe the colour as greenish. I looked up from the eyepiece to see that cloud was approaching on the S horizon. By the time I looked back through the eyepiece Neptune was gone! Then the whole sky became infected by cloud. It hadn't so much blown in as formed in-situ. Something to do with the dew point probably.

That brought my observing to an end. Packing away took about 15 minutes. 

My next view of a star will probably be from Tenerife because that's where we are going in 11 hours

The light pollution in Las Americas is as bad as here in the glow of the Fylde Coast Conurbation so I doubt I'll have any observing reports from there! 

[jezhughes]

For the nasty bolts

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEQ6-EQ6-Pro-Mount-Latitude-Azimuth-Bolt-Upgrade-Set-/280722548445?pt=UK_Photography_Telescopes&hash=item415c5e26dd

The best £55 you will ever spend on the mount.

[mangoman]

Would you recommend your set up for a complete novice, I don't want to buy something basic and then to upgrade months later. I'm looking to eventually get into Astro Photography in particular nebular/galaxy etc.

[Paul M]

Would you recommend your set up for a complete novice, I don't want to buy something basic and then to upgrade months later. I'm looking to eventually get into Astro Photography in particular nebular/galaxy etc.

In general I wouldn't recommend such a big and heavy equatorial newtonian to a novice. Even if money was no object.

I'd look for a second hand 8 inch dobsonian. Find out if you really do have the bug with a scope that is easy to setup and use and that you can get your money back from if it's not for you or you want to upgrade.

I think most of the imagers here on SGL wouldn't recommend a big newt for imaging and certainly not at entry level anyway.

Although I'm in no rush to get into imaging, I did get the highly praised "Making Every Photon Count" for my birthday last week and I've been reading it on holiday here in Tenerife.

Interestingly the author used/uses just such a scope as I now have for much of his imaging. But its permanently housed in an observatory!

Having said all that, I've taken to my new scope like a duck to water and I've been out of practice for some time, although not a novice by any means!

[Uplooker]

Hi Paul,

Thanks for this thread. It has cemented my aperture fever. I have a real hankering for a 10" OTA and then to build a dob mount for it. Mrs Uplooker doesn't really bat an eyelid with regard to astro purchases, but a 10 inch scope turning up would make her baulk

Ian

[tich]

I've only just come across this thread &that was a great review Paul, I was given a 250P dob tube a couple of months ago, I already have a 200P & didn't think the extra size would make much difference but boy was I wrong. I've seen objects that I've not seen with the 200P as well as seen more detail on galaxies. It gives a nice wide field of view too as I found out when I was at the Brecons as I was able to see M31, M32 & M110 in the same FOV using a 24mm Hyperion. I will say it would benefit from some higher grade eyepieces but the views I got were quite acceptable.

Mine isn't the DS so not sure what the difference is but I did put the lacerta dual speed focuser from my 200P onto it. I never found it any worse to use than my 200P for focusing on the NEQ6 although I'd imagine that would be different if it got breezy. I did notice the weight difference when mounting the scope but I don't find it much of a problem. I also fitted a Losmandy dovetail as I don't think the standard Vixen is up to the job plus some high tensile bolts to the rings. Apart from that I think it's a great scope & at F4.7 gives lovely wide views too so it's definitely a keeper.

[Paul M]

I've only just come across this thread &that was a great review Paul, I was given a 250P dob tube a couple of months ago, I already have a 200P & didn't think the extra size would make much difference but boy was I wrong. I've seen objects that I've not seen with the 200P as well as seen more detail on galaxies. It gives a nice wide field of view too as I found out when I was at the Brecons as I was able to see M31, M32 & M110 in the same FOV using a 24mm Hyperion. I will say it would benefit from some higher grade eyepieces but the views I got were quite acceptable.

Mine isn't the DS so not sure what the difference is but I did put the lacerta dual speed focuser from my 200P onto it. I never found it any worse to use than my 200P for focusing on the NEQ6 although I'd imagine that would be different if it got breezy. I did notice the weight difference when mounting the scope but I don't find it much of a problem. I also fitted a Losmandy dovetail as I don't think the standard Vixen is up to the job plus some high tensile bolts to the rings. Apart from that I think it's a great scope & at F4.7 gives lovely wide views too so it's definitely a keeper.

I think the DS just refers to the Dual Speed focuser. So it sounds like you have that covered already.

I'm not going to go mad on Eyepieces just yey. I'm still making use of my 30 year old Plossls but expect that they could be better.

Perhaps my next purchase will be an upgrade of the dovetail too. I keep saying how much I dislike the scrawny thing it came with!