Long lasting Dob and EP setup

[Adz]

Hey all,

Well I have finally got here to compose this thread. After talking to Kim about Dobsonians for a while, I decided to ask everyone on their opinions and what they would do if they had to start again from scratch with my money.

I have owned an 8" reflector and a 60mm refractor which have both served their use. Astronomy is a large part of my life and I would like to make a serious investment.

Recently a lot of my friends have become aware of my passion since starting this course with the Open University and I take them out in groups at my local site. Seeing their faces when Saturn comes into view makes it worthwhile every time! I am really enjoying this and I get the impression I am a Brian Cox to them

But setting up the equatorial mount and all its involved effort is obviously ideal anymore. I have been doing loads of research and I will invest in a large dobsonian after everyones wise words on which one, and also after the selling of my current kit.

My budget is about £800 up to possibly £1000, I have been saving from a part time job for a while. So there are many things to consider. I already have a powerpack if I choose to go down the auto or goto route. I cannot decide whether these features justify the quite high amount of increase in cost, compared to the solid tube designs. As far as I can gather there is Skywatcher, GSO, orion optics, orion and revelation possibly?

Some specs for consideration:

> Weight isn't an issue as I normally observe with my dad or someone else so we can share the lifting

> The scope will have to fit in a vw golf hatch with the rear seats down if needed

I have lots more to say but I realise this is already a lot.

Thank you for your help,

Adam

[John]

I've owned a few dobs from 8" to 12", by Skywatcher, Meade and lately an Orion Optics (OK it's alt-az but not a dob !).

If I was starting from scratch now I'd probably go for a 12" Skywatcher solid tube dob and I'd keep my current Tele Vue eyepieces to use with it as they are my "lifetime" set !.

12" is the max size that I can handle (just about !) and it will fit in a reasonable size car. The Truss / strut designs weigh the same as the solid tubes and you need a light shroud to use with them.

Thats my take - I'm sure you will get other viewpoints as well !.

[Doc]

I agree with John. I've owned numerous scopes and if I had a choice of just one then it would be a solid tube F5 dob.

Should fit accross the back seat of your car with the base in the boot.

Good allrounder and being F5 and solid tube a little forgiving on collimation.

Dobsonians - Skywatcher Skyliner 300P Dobsonian

With the remainder start your self collecting a good eyepiece kit, along the lines of Televue or William Optics.

[Merlin66]

I've built and used dobbies between 6" and 29":eek: over the years...

the one I miss most??

The 10" f6

It was ideal for almost everything, portable. nice size, and the optics I had were first class.

99% of time time it could handle the seeing conditions and give great views, whether that was the planets or DSO's.

I miss that one...come home..all is forgiven:(

[themos]

I'd pick a 10" too, over a 12". You can just about put it on an GEM when you're tired of nudging.

[Adz]

All this is very interesting, thank you for the help. I can only expect that your patience of lending out help to newbies comes from a slow and painful relationship of patience with cloud

If I was starting from scratch now I'd probably go for a 12" Skywatcher solid tube dob and I'd keep my current Tele Vue eyepieces to use with it as they are my "lifetime" set !.

12" is the max size that I can handle (just about !) and it will fit in a reasonable size car. The Truss / strut designs weigh the same as the solid tubes and you need a light shroud to use with them.

I measured the car today and the rear seats actually are much wider that the boot, about 130cm. I don't think I need to go with a collapsible dob if I can fit a solid tube in just fine. Are there any other differences with the two designs that are the cause of such a price difference?

I've owned numerous scopes and if I had a choice of just one then it would be a solid tube F5 dob. Good allrounder and being F5 and solid tube a little forgiving on collimation. With the remainder start your self collecting a good eyepiece kit, along the lines of Televue or William Optics.

This sounds very pleasing Doc. I plan to obviously keep a good collimation underway. But compared to f4 for example, things will hopefully be a little easier. I do have a laser that I have collimated myself with a jig. Should I buy a barlow to keep the primary perfect with that method, or just cut my losses and get a Hotech?

the one I miss most?? The 10" f6

It was ideal for almost everything, portable. nice size, and the optics I had were first class. 99% of time time it could handle the seeing conditions and give great views, whether that was the planets or DSO's.

Merlin what was the model and make you had? I plan to probably use my flashed webcam for a lunar mosaic and some planetary avi's but that is about it. Perhaps a Televue barlow would be a good purchase for me?

I'd pick a 10" too, over a 12". You can just about put it on an GEM when you're tired of nudging.

What is a GEM, is it a tracking mount? No offense but I am straying away from them at the minute. I am excited about the ease of use with a dobsonian mount. Is manually moving it around a problem after a while for a lot of people?

[John]

I measured the car today and the rear seats actually are much wider that the boot, about 130cm. I don't think I need to go with a collapsible dob if I can fit a solid tube in just fine. Are there any other differences with the two designs that are the cause of such a price difference?...

Not really - optically they are exactly the same.

GEM = German Equatorial Mount by the way

[themos]

If you are waiting to catch a glimpse of good seeing at high power, nudging can be a nuisance.

[Adz]

GEM = German Equatorial Mount by the way

Oh dear, how did I not figure that one out!?

If you are waiting to catch a glimpse of good seeing at high power, nudging can be a nuisance.

I see. Is there any chance a motor, say for auto not necessarily goto, could be added at a later date if I bought a closed tube?

[Merlin66]

The 250mm f6 was a hand polished mirror which had a 1/10 wave accuracy... those were the days....

[Doc]

If you are waiting to catch a glimpse of good seeing at high power, nudging can be a nuisance.

I don't find it a problem with 82° eyepieces, you just get used to it. I find if your scope is perfectly balanced then nudging becomes second nature.

[swamp thing]

Hi Adam

Now this is a tough question. 10" or 12" they both have their advantages.

IMHO I think it would come down to what you wanted to use it for and where you intend to use it.

If you want a great all round scope a 10" at f/6 would take some beating as Merlin said.

If you want a scope for DSO and go to dark sites a 12" would be better.

The 10" is easier to transport but the 12" is better when you get there.

Either will be a great scope so you cant lose

I would go for the 12" but my interest is visual DSO and I am prepared to travel to dark skies.

I also have no probs nudging when using Naglers they make manual tracking a doddle.

Good luck deciding.

Regards Steve

[Adz]

Hi Adam

Now this is a tough question. 10" or 12" they both have their advantages.

IMHO I think it would come down to what you wanted to use it for and where you intend to use it.

If you want a great all round scope a 10" at f/6 would take some beating as Merlin said.

If you want a scope for DSO and go to dark sites a 12" would be better.

The 10" is easier to transport but the 12" is better when you get there.

Either will be a great scope so you cant lose

I would go for the 12" but my interest is visual DSO and I am prepared to travel to dark skies.

I also have no probs nudging when using Naglers they make manual tracking a doddle.

Good luck deciding.

Regards Steve

Thanks a lot Steve! I guess I could pretty well some up what I want from the scope in one sentence. Absolute best potential views. So this leads me for the 12". I am prepared to accept collimation will have to be more strict and eyepieces more demanding. By the way I always have to travel to darksites.

Could anyone tell me the tube length of either/both 10" and 12" Skyliners? Skywatchers website is hopeless for that. (the 12" doesn't even appear anymore...?)

My knowledge of eyepieces is small but from what I can make out... Naglers are from Televue. They are like a plossl but just provide a larger field of view? Which is allowing more of the view into the frame of the eyepiece, irrespective of the magnification??

Also, what is the 'space walk' I read people talking about?

[CGolder]

errrr, just to add something... the tube will not be the hard bit to fit in the car, the base is very bulky and is a pain to load in the car (never fit the boot of my astra)

as for 10 or 12, i would go with the largest you can manage, if buying second hand the 10" is way more common than the 12"

[Jarndyce]

the base is very bulky and is a pain to load in the car (never fit the boot of my astra)

This is a good point. Ok with an MPV or estate.

For what it's worth, I've been impressed with what I've seen of the Skywatcher Flextube Autos. But they still have a bulky, heavy base.

[Adz]

Thank, I presume even with the parcel shelf removed?

[Hobbes]

How about the new Skywatcher Skyliner Flextube Dob GoTo's that FLO are advertising at the mo?. Looks like the best of both worlds and what I would go for if I had the cash at the moment.

[Moonshane]

If you can handle the weight and size (which it seems you can) then I'd recommend a 12" dob. I have the orion optics UK one and the footprint is a lot smaller as the base is made of good quality aluminium sheet rather than chipboard. in fact the base fits in the car over the tube and is only about 3" wider in total. The problem is they are rare second hand and cost about twice the price of a used Skywatcher. I've never seen a 12" S/W in the flesh but surely it would all fit in the back of a Golf?? The tube by the way on the 12" is 150cm long.

I don't find tracking a major problem but felt I was losing out with the nudging creating slight wobbles which took a second or so to settle, then seeing for a minute and nudging again (with 40 degree orthoscopic eyepieces anyway - a little less nudging with an Ethos). so for about £100 I have made an equatorial platform see http://stargazerslounge.com/diy-astronomer/127311-equatorial-platform-dobsonian-telescopes.html. it's still a work in progress (mainly delayed due to waiting for parts) but it looks like it should work.

personally I love dobs and have plans (but no funds yet!) for an even bigger dob (18") over the course of the next 12 months or so. the main issue with no tracking for me is not for the usual observer - this is easy to get the hang of - it's for the new observers who cannot keep track of a constantly moving target although even they will get the hang of it too.

good luck with your choice.

[Sarah]

The actual length of the solid tube 12" dob is close to 145cm on it's own. The base is bulky too. The flex tube 12" is a more manageable size to fit into a car. Info on 12" flex tube can be found on skywatcher website here:

TELESCOPE SUPPLIERS - SKY-WATCHER TELESCOPE

It also gives size (and weight) info on the base which should be same for either solid tube or flex tube options.

[mikeknowle]

Adz, I'm at the same point as you - so going to Kelling Heath for a look-see.

If I don't end up buying a 12" dob. as soon as I get back I'll be v. surprised!

Something like the Skywatcher Skyliner 300P FlexTube AUTO or equiv. but keeping open mind until I see the beauty parade!

[Sarah]

You could consider the 12" flex tube AUTO with a view to possibly upgrading to GOTO in the future:

http://stargazerslounge.com/equipment-help/128557-skyliner-250-flextube-auto-goto-how.html

[ItIsOnlyMe]

Just to add my 2p on this, I have the 300p Flex Auto, and find the base a lot more of a one man struggle than the OTA to handle.

It's wide and heavy and an uncomfortable one person lift. Weight wise it's not too bad and mine fits in the boot but I have a Volvo estate :-)

My guess would be that the base would go in a Golf boot with the parcel shelf removed but not with it in (It's 610mm wide by 763mm high from the SKY Watcher web site). And the OTA folded down would be an easy fit on the back seat.

As this is an auto the nudging is not a problem (trade off is you need power) and I don't get any vibration when its moving so no second or two for the tube to settle. This scope can also be upgraded to GOTO with the addition of the handset, which I am in the process of sorting out (trade off is having to align)

I have never had a 10" so can't advise the difference but surely bigger is always better If you can handle moving the thing and the size difference isn't that great on the flextubes.

I have had some stunning views through this scope, I can only recommend it.

[mikeknowle]

...This scope can also be upgraded to GOTO with the addition of the handset, which I am in the process of sorting out (trade off is having to align)

On that last point, does the alignment take the same time as other GOTO-based mount types; and are you able to use the scope with the AUTO off, ie just move it about unaligned?

Cheers

[ronin]

Mike, the problem of going to Kelling Heath to look at the scopes is that there is a difference between "looking at" and "living with".

From Adams posts I guess that he is still in education of one form or another and does not drive.

See Astro-Baby's comments about living in a flat and having a scope of some size. Simply utterly impractical. The point being Adam could well be in that situation one day.

[Sarah]

On that last point, does the alignment take the same time as other GOTO-based mount types; and are you able to use the scope with the AUTO off, ie just move it about unaligned?

Cheers

As an AUTO dob, with the AUTO on, you can still manually move it about into position and then it will just resume tracking. I haven't had a chance to try the GOTO upgrade on this yet, but from what I can see, the alignment process should be similar to any other AZ mount.

Sarah