Hyperion 8-24 Zoom (Mark III)

[Talitha]

After reading very good reviews on the (older version??) Baader Hyperion 8-24 zoom ep, i decided to get one. Not knowing at the time that there were different versions of this eyepiece, i ordered one and was sent the Mark III.

I tried it out on 16 Oct with the 16" Lightbridge.. TBH, i'm less than impressed.

On Jupiter and the Moon, there seemed to be a lot of internal glare, very reminiscent of what i'd seen in a barlow of mine before painting the inside of it's tube with flat black paint. When the eyepiece is held up to a window during the daytime and looked into from either end, there's a very shiny, reflective circle going all around the fov... it's much worse when looking through the scope-end of the eyepiece.

Now for the scopeside results...

When using the 1.25" adapter supplied with the eyepiece, it 'barely' focused at the 16mm setting and didn't focus at all on the 20mm or 24mm settings... the focus tube goes in all the way and then hits the stopping point. Very big disappointment.

Oddly enough, it works fine on all settings when used as a 2" eyepiece. But one of the reasons i got the eyepiece in the first place was because of the 1.25" adapter, which would allow me to use my existing 1.25" filters. Apparently though, i'll only be able to definitely use the filters at the 8mm and 12mm settings. I'm not sure if adding a filter would prevent the scope from coming to focus on the 16mm setting though, i was upset while testing and forgot to give it a try.

When using the eyepiece in the 1.25" mode, i'd used a 'twist-lock' holder instead of the 1.25" compression ring but was curious to see if the scope-supplied 1.25" compression ring would give different results. So i removed the twist-lock holder and inserted the compression ring... the 16mm setting now came into focus, but the 20mm just 'barely' made it. Again, the focuser hit the inward stopping point before the 24mm setting would come into focus.

So basically, the 24mm setting is unusable no matter which 1.25" holder i use.

There was also something very odd looking when i used the ep in the 2" mode. At the 24mm setting there seemed to be a very dark ring all around the outside edge of the fov. I'd never seen anything like it before. Should i give this ep a chance on deep sky when there's no lunar interference? It performed well when used in the 2" mode but as i said before, i'd like to have been able to use my 1.25" filters with it. Seems a bit much to get 2" filters because a specific eyepiece won't come to focus.

Interested in hearing your thoughts.

[brantuk]

Whew Carol - you probably just saved me a load of grief upgrading my Mk2 version which isn't anything like you describe. I use it in a SW 12" dob and it focuses at all stops and little or no internal reflections. Think I'll keep it now I've read your report

[Peter Drew]

Hello Carol. Sorry for the bad news for two reasons. First because you have been disappointed and second because I was on the point of purchasing one myself. I currently have three ageing zooms which have always given good service and I was looking to replace them with one of better quality. I can understand how some manufacturing or design shortcoming could introduce the glare issues but I'm mystified as to why the unit doesn't come to focus at all focal lengths. My old zooms come to focus at all focal lengths with the absolutely minimal amount of refocusing, I presumed that the Hyperion would do the same, the only zoom that I am aware of that extends to achieve different focal lengths is the Speers WALER, does the Hyperion work like that?

[Talitha]

Thanks for your replies. Maybe the eyepiece wasn't intended for use on an f/4.5 16" Dob? Peter, this is the first zoom ep i've ever had, and was led to believe from Hyperion reports that it would focus properly. Evidently the Mark III version doesn't.

[nobbytate]

Hi Carol have you tried the eyepiece in either of your other scopes!!!

just as a matter of intrest

John

[Talitha]

It was purchased for the 16"LB, but out of curiosity i'd like to test it on the 8"SCT, 120ST and 80ST on the next clear night. TBH though, i really don't use the other scopes too much anymore (except the 120ST for the magazine sketches)... their set-up time takes ages compared to simply rolling Seymour out of the shed.

[AdeyG]

This sound very similar to a thread on another forum where a guy had bought a MKIII and was very VERY angry about the performance of it. He basically said that he thought that Baader was struggling to keep up with demand due to the favourable reviews the MKII had recieved and had shipped production to China where he said that quality control seemed to be all but non existant! He was angry about being misled into buying a quality German product and being palmed off with a shoddy Chinese rip off! His words not mine! He also blamed some of the members on the forum for singing its praises and making him buy one!!!!

He could have just got a faulty sample ( i myself recently had a faulty motor for my EQ5 but the supplier sorted it straight the way) but now seeing that someone else has had the same problems it looks like a trend may be starting! I am a bit worried as i was thinking about buying one of these too but now........

Hope you get it all sorted out

[pvaz]

I'm sad to hear that. The MK III was also on my list. Now I'll be waiting for more reports. Would be great if you could provide info on it's performance on your other scopes.

PS-> nice to hear "Seymour" is easy to handle when you just role it out a shed. I'm in a dilemma to either go for a big dob or an imaging setup somewhere next year. Though I'm leaning more and more towards a big dob and just leave the nasty imaging thing to some braver souls.

[Takahashi]

Oh joy. I bought one a few months ago, but have barely used it at all, partly due to the (at the time) Summer skies, and also because I do photo more than visual. I had intended it to be part of my grab-n-go kit along with the Meg72 but haven't grabbed-n-gone for ages, so I hope I don't discover these same negative aspects. I will of course be testing it as soon as possible now.

[Talitha]

Adey, the only indentification on the eyepiece is the "Baader Planetarium" icon. There are no "Made in ___" stamps anywhere on the eypiece or the accessories which came with it, so i can't really tell where the eyepice was made.

Paulo, if you have a place to store a fully assembled Dob, go for it. My set-up time is about 5 minutes, most of which is used stabilizing the scope. The wheels on the scope dolly allow a certain amount of rocking motion to take place when the scope's being nudged. To steady things, i use an iron rod as a lever on a few wooden blocks and raise the scope one side at a time in order to slip a length of 4x4 under both sides of the dolly's steel frame. That being done, Seymour's just as steady as he would be sitting directly on the ground.

Ivor, the eyepiece might work well with your scope, i suppose you won't know till you try. Here's hoping things go well for you.

If the weather cooperates tonight, i'll test the Hyperion on the 120ST but will leave the 8"SCT at home. It'd be too much of a hassle to set that one up for a few minutes' worth of testing on an eyepiece that will most likely be returned anyway.

I've seen a few barlows (or maybe diagonals?) which stated that there might not be enough focus play available for specific scope designs, but i was unaware that specific eyepieces might present the same problem. Not everyone is an eyepiece expert (certainly not me, anyway) and it would be nice if advertisements would say whether or not there might be limitations.

What i really can't understand is why the 24mm setting wouldn't come to focus in the 1.25" mode. It's advertised as having a 50 degree field of view, which is the same as my 26mm Meade Super Plossl (1.25")... but the Meade works very well in the Dob. And why would using the scope's 1.25" compression ring allow the 16mm setting to come into focus when the 1.25" twist-lock didn't? None of it makes any sense to me.

[johninderby]

Very disappointing and also a bit surprising as the Baader eyepieces are normally very good. I upgraded from the MkII zoom to a Pentax zoom a while ago and couldn't be happier with the Pentax, no quality control or any other problems there.

John

[AdeyG]

Hi Carol,

I can't find the article but from what i remember the guy said that "he had been told that Baader had shipped production to china as they were struggling to meet demand".

So it sounds like he assumes that his was "made in china". It's possible that he was just peeved that his wasn't working and was just lashing out.

Hopefully it was just a faulty sample or he had unfortunately recieved a counterfeit.

Hope you get your situation resolved.

Clear skies

[WayBig]

"Seymour" - brilliant!!

[Takahashi]

lol! I just got that. I'm so quick.

[F15Rules]

Hi, Sorry to hear about your bad experience with the MK III.

Can I just add my experience for some balance the other way?

I bought a new MK111 about 6 weeks ago, but have only used it a few times due to convalescence post surgery. I had it on my Lomo Mak F14 on SUnday night and it was superb...and I mean, SUPERB.:) I viewed Luna, M13, Polaris and Mizar in a short session.. see Equipment discussion, Lomo Astele First light..

I sold my Baader Genuine Orthos to fund this (not cheap at £173) as I get fed up of the in and out roundabout of swapping eyepieces, and I liked the 8-24mm range giving 5 fixed click stop positions and being pretty much parfocal across the range.

I have only used one zoom before, which was a televue in a similar range of mags, which was nice, but the Baader is definitely much better.

I should say that I am a longer FL man (the handle might give it away LOL) so my main scopes are F10 or slower. But I do have a nice 8" Newt at F5 so I must try it in that. I found good sharp focus at all magnifications with stars pinpoint sharp across the vast majority of the field. Fine lunar detail was extremely well defined.

Perhaps it IS something to do with shorter FL scopes, or perhaps you got a bad example, in which case you should ask for an exchange?

The only (Small) negative for me about this EP is that at 24mm you only get a 50deg fov, and much wider at higher mags - kind of the reverse of what you might expect!

Oh, and I have only used it in 1.25" format so far, although of course it does have the 2" barrel fit as well.

Hope this helps...I have always found Baader gear to be top notch..I think the anti Chinese rant is just that, after all, now many really good scopes out there are originating from China these days?? (no vested interest here though, my main scopes are both Russian!)

cheers

Dave

[Andrew*]

I'm very surprised at your experiences with the Baader Zoom, Carol.

I have owned the Mk. II and now have two Mk. IIIs for binoviewing. I have used them only on a couple of occasions with my f/6 dobsonian and didn't notice any blackening or glare problems when viewing Jupiter.

However, I have just got out both eyepieces to check. There is one screw ring holding in the last element, which is not particularly black and does reflect a bit when viewing a bright cloudy sky at the 24mm setting. I have come across this on eyepieces before and have never found it distracting. I have noticed that at the 24mm setting the field edge is very soft and generally kind of "messy", with reflections appearing when the eye is off centre.

Zooming in to 20mm and all smaller f/ls, the reflection from this ring disappears and the area outside the FOV is very black.

Regarding the focus position, I'm surprised that it's not focusing in your LB. I would guess that your two adaptors have different thicknesses, hence why one adaptor allows the 16mm setting to focus and the other doesn't. I haven't found the zoom to be particularly "needy" of in-focus, but perhaps the problem is your scope? You could try pushing the primary mirror up the tube by a couple of mm with the collimation screws. Your other alternative would be swapping the stock focuser for a low-profile version.

To be perfectly frank though, it sounds like your version is a lemon, with poor blackening that has slipped through QC. Ask your retailer for a replacement and see if that's any better. You never know, perhaps all the problems are related and disappear in another eyepiece...

HTH

Andrew

[russ]

Hi Carol,

I can't find the article but from what i remember the guy said that "he had been told that Baader had shipped production to china as they were struggling to meet demand".

So it sounds like he assumes that his was "made in china". It's possible that he was just peeved that his wasn't working and was just lashing out.

Hopefully it was just a faulty sample or he had unfortunately recieved a counterfeit.

Hope you get your situation resolved.

Clear skies

Was that the article on Cloudynights? I did see a thread with a guy ranting, couldn't understand why people were raving about the Baader Zoom.

Carol, it sounds like you have lemon, as Andrew says.

Andrew....wow two Hyperion Zooms in binoviewers

[Andrew*]

Andrew....wow two Hyperion Zooms in binoviewers

Yes, Russ! It works, but they are very large and only just site side by side with a mm or two in between the grips. My IPD is pretty small though. Changing f/l is a bit fiddly, but less work than changing eyepieces obviously. The large eyecup screws off to reveal a smaller bit, which my nose does fit between! The other problem is weight.....

[russ]

That sounds awesome Andrew and i bet amazing with the Denks and 12" dob. Probably mindblowing on Jupiter and the moon. I was wondering about the distance between the eyepieces as they are pretty chunky.

[Talitha]

Glad you like the name 'Seymour'.

Out of curiosity i tried the Hyperion with the 120ST and 8"SCT last night and it worked well. The eyepiece was purchased specifically for the Dob though... i was looking forward to the convenience of not switching my 1.25" O-III filter from eyepiece to eyepiece while up on the ladder. In order to do that now, i'd need to get a 2" filter but it would be absolutely ludicrous to spend $200 just to accomodate a $227 eyepiece.

TBH, i already have plenty of eyepieces, so not having the Hyperion zoom really won't affect me too much. At this point i'd rather just return it instead of trying 'this or that' with my scope in an attempt to make it work. It's possible that it's a lemon though, so i'll consider contacting the vendor to explain things and see what they say.

[AdeyG]

Was that the article on Cloudynights? I did see a thread with a guy ranting, couldn't understand why people were raving about the Baader Zoom.

Hi Russ,

No it was on Astronomy Forum, the thread got quite nasty at one point and the mods got involved and even though apologies were expressed it may have been deleted!

It's very promising that quite a few people have nothing but praise for the MKIII and it's starting to look like some bad ones have unfortunately slipped through the net!

Clear skies

[JamesC]

I got a MkII not long after getting my 12" dob and when I wasn't really that familiar with the pros and cons of various eyepieces. I thought one good quality zoom would do instead of lots of fixed focus eyepieces. The quality and build of the eyepiece is very good, but it just didn't give the kind of edge performance I was looking for in my f/5 dob, so I ended up getting a set of fixed focus eyepieces. Stupidly I kept the zoom because I wanted to test out my left eye at different exit pupils. I've got a bit of a flare in my left eye at large pupils and wanted to know if it just got steadily better at smaller pupils or if it suddenly got better at a particular size. Anyway I never got around to testing my left eye because looking at stuff with my right eye was so much more interesting. I was kicking myself when the MkIII came out because obviously it will reduce the resale value of the MkII - or so I thought. I'm liking these stories about the MkIII being rubbish - keep spreading them!

The MkII kind of dented my confidence in zooms, so I was pretty apprehensive when I bought a televue 3-6mm zoom. Totally different experience. It gives excellent performance even in my f/4 Starblast.

[Talitha]

The Hyperion Mark III was sent back on Wednesday. I'd emailed the vendor explaining everything, adding that i honestly wasn't sure whether to ask for an exchange or a refund, and left the decision to them. Judging from everything i explained, they said there was definitely something about the eyepiece that Seymour didn't like, so they suggested that i send it back for a refund.

Before going on, i need to clarify something. TBH, it was quite upsetting to read "I'm liking these stories about the MkIII being rubbish - keep spreading them!". Please understand that it was never my intention to bash the eyepiece or give the impression that it's rubbish. I merely presented my own personal experience with it, in hopes someone would be able to shed some light on what might be causing the problem. As stated, the eyepiece worked well on the 16" Dob when used in the 2" mode. And even though the eyepiece was purchased for use in the Dob, i went out of my way to further test it on the 120ST and 8"SCT, and it did just fine.

That being said...

After realizing that the Hyperion Mark III wasn't the same model i'd read the glowing reports on, i began doing websearches on it and it seems others have experienced the same internal reflections i'd seen when viewing Jupiter and Luna. I took some pics before returning the eyepiece.... here they are, for the purpose of information only.

[Moonshane]

this may seem like a silly suggestion but could the inability to focus at 24mm be due to your eye prescription? I am not sure if you eg use spectacles normally but not to observe but I do (although I have recently bought contacts to combat this) and find that parfocal zooms are not parfocal without my specs. maybe your prescription is just the wrong side for the zoom to focus when it's a little further out with the adapter? I have to use a 50mm extension on both my scopes to focus anything although this is due to the low profile nature of the focusers more than anything. funnily enough, I am going the opposite direction to Dave (f15 rules) in buying up a few Baader GOs to provide more options between my main 'wider field' EPs rather than the zoom option. nothing against zooms per se and love my Nagler zoom. the Pentax one that John mentioned keeps phasing in and out of my 'buy / don't buy' mind.

[Merlin66]

Hmmm

Haven't tried any of the Baader Zooms, but did use a couple of the TV zooms which didn't live up to expectations...sold them and bought the Pentax SMC 8-24 Zoom - about twice the size and twice the weight but what a fantastic eyepiece. Now I'll never need to buy another Zoom......